My husband drinks daily. During lockdown I was able to keep track of his intake, which is around 60-70 units weekly. Mostly beer, plus some cider, wine and occasional gin.
He last had an alcohol-free day in March 2020 (i.e. over a year ago) and that was about 3 days in a row because he was poorly (unidentified illness, possibly mild Covid). Now that the pubs have opened again, he is back to including 2-4 nights out as well. I don't know how much he drinks in the pub but can safely assume it's more than at home.
He is 47 and has been drinking at this level since his teens. We have been together since teens and I can't remember any time where he has taken days off regularly. He has drunk every day of his adult life, bar a few days here and there.
He is completely functional, doesn't get into trouble, drive drunk or become aggressive. In fact he hardly ever seems drunk, as he holds it well. The exception is a late night at the weekend and a whole day hangover is sometimes the result. He medicates with daily ibuprofen (for aches and pains) and frequent Red Bulls (energy). He doesn't drink in the morning, although sometimes sleeps it off till lunchtime or afternoon, then opens a bottle pretty soon.
He is fit and a good weight, slim if anything, and exercises at least twice weekly.
Alcohol abuse runs in his family, but in a similar way, i.e. heavy drinkers with no apparent ill effects on either health or behaviour (but of course, on pocket). But boozing at this level is completely normalised for him. He thinks everybody drinks like him and I am the weird one (I drank a fair bit when younger, reduced substantially when we had children, now don't drink at all). He thinks drinking is normal and expected and thinks our teen children should start drinking socially now, as that is how the world works (I put my foot down at that, of course). If I suggest he tries a day off, he just point blank refuses. He thinks I am a party pooper who needs to lighten up.
Is he right? Do lots of people live like this and suffer no ill-consequences, or is he on a fast-track to liver disease? I'm feeling pretty confused. Thanks.
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Havoc7
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He is certainly in very dangerous territory although some people do seem to 'get away with it'.
Developing alcohol related liver disease doesn't happen in everyone who drinks to excess but it's a very risky road he's going down.
The booze at that level together with long term Ibuprofen and even the energy drinks are all likely to be putting strain on his liver.
The BLT has a page all about ARLD which might help you identify whether you are seeing any symptoms in your hubby which could be indicating he is starting with liver issues. britishlivertrust.org.uk/in...
The fact that he won't contemplate a 'day off' from drinking would seem to indicate he's reached the point of being a functioning alcoholic - he won't take a day off because he can't. The aches & pains you say he's experiencing point to some damage happening somewhere.
You should perhaps make contact with Al-anon which is a support group for those who are affected by a friend or family members drinking. They might provide pointers on how to protect yourself and your children as this goes along. al-anonuk.org.uk/
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.I hadn't realised that Ibuprofen was particularly bad for the liver, although I have wondered about the general risks of using it long term for quite a while now. He will say the aches are down to exertion playing sports at his age, and he recently also was x-rayed for back pain which revealed some spinal problems affecting the sciatic nerve. He had been on the daily painkillers before this, but really upped his intake to the max at that point, including paracetomol to bridge the 4 hour gaps. But his back is ok again now and I think he still takes at least 800mg a day.
I am sure you are right that he can't take a day off, but he says he simply doesn't want to. He enjoys drinking and doesn't think it's doing him any harm.
Oh my god he is drinking way too much, has a serious drink problem but is obviously in denial !!!! You can tell him from me, my husband was exactly the same, until the alcohol made him seriously ill for 4 years with liver failure, kidney failure and broncho pneumonia and died a horrible death in ICU at just 54 years old. Our kids were 11 and 17... is that what he wants for himself and HIS family? Look after yourself, you have a long tough road ahead but we can support you along the way here.
Initially l went to see the GP because he refused to go. Un beknown to me at the time he was suffering with HE hepatic encephalopathy which was terrifying to witness. Once l had spoken to 1 GP who brought in a 2nd, they told me to go home and get him. So l lied to my husband saying the docs want to see you about your depression which worked. He was then hospitalised for a medical detox ....... to be continued ....... x
Hello Havoc, and welcome to this site. Hopefully, you’ll find plenty of help and support from many people the have been just where you are now.
I think there are a couple of things going on here, so I’ll go through them in stages.
First of all, alcohol abuse isn’t really hereditary. However, several genes within a person’s body could make a person more likely to want to experiment with drugs and also increase the risk of drinking too much and developing compulsive behaviours around alcohol. But we can’t blame our father’s for our own choices in life. My own father died of liver failure through alcohol, and maybe that made me more susceptible to end up going down that road in life.
Continued alcohol consumption over some time will cause damage to the liver. Alcohol is a toxic substance for the liver to have to deal with. So, a continued attack on the liver with alcohol will do irreparable damage over time.
Most people realise that the liver has this unique ability to repair itself, and this can lead some people into a false sense of security (Oh, my livers fine, it can repair itself). There is an illustration I like to use here. If you were to prick your hand and it was to bleed, it will heal and repair itself. Now, if you were to prick your hand 100 times, it would still heal but will begin to scar. Now, if you were to prick your hand 500 times, well, it’s just not going to make it. The liver is a bit like this.
I should also point out here that the liver doesn’t have any pain receptors so It’s can’t always tell you when it’s being damaged.
Now, let me throw something else into this mix. This is just a thought.
You mention that your husband takes ibuprofen daily. Ibuprofen is particularly toxic to the liver and should be avoided. So, here we have two daily attacks on the liver, Alcohol and ibuprofen. This also makes for a rather nasty cycle of events to begin.
It has been discovered that a person who is in constant pain, like those who suffer from say chronic rheumatoid arthritis or a constant toothache could be causing an immune response from our bodies immune system. This involves the release of macrophage cells and inflammatory proteins called cytokines. It has been discovered that these cytokines can cross over the blood-brain barrier and alter a person mood. This can then make them feel depressed and withdrawn. It is then understandable for a person to want to self-medicate with alcohol to try and lift the mood.
Alcohol is also a depressant, and so a horrible cycle of events can begin to occur. Understanding why a person drinks is the first stage in addressing the problem: youtu.be/iw7b0-yTnT0
I would recommend that your husband books an appointment to see his GP. It’s important to be totally honest here. A GP can only advise someone based upon what he/she has been told. Tell them of the volume of alcohol consumption we are talking about here, and over what period. Also, tell them what “over the counter” medication he is taking, and of any other medical conditions he may be suffering with.
Finally, I word of caution here. A person can have liver cirrhosis, but still, show a normal set of blood results on a Liver Function Test. Ask if you can have an ELF (Enhanced Liver Fibrosis) blood test. This will show up any possible fibrosis or fatty liver. I’d also request a Fibroscan. This will measure the stiffness of the liver will give your doctor and better picture of what state the liver is in. Then based upon the results, further tests might be required and a possible referral to a consultant.
Now, all this is about understanding what state your husband’s liver is in. The other matter is about the alcohol aspect. I suspect your husband is by now drinking out of habit. He has a routine and he is now drinking because it’s now 6’oclock and at 6’oclock he always has a drink. He is now drinking not because he wants one, but because it’s 6’oclock and this is what he always does. Getting to the root of that is driving that need to want to drink is crucial. One good thing is, that at this stage he is drinking because he wants to. Please don’t allow this to become a case whereby he is drinking because he has to.
Thank you so much for your reply. I am afraid there is zero chance of getting him to a GP or being honest about his booze intake if he was questioned. He knows he drinks more than the recommended amounts, but he dismisses those guidelines as nanny-state nonsense because in his own mind, clearly he is absolutely fine.
The guidelines are there for good reason and sadly we are seeing many more patients with alcohol liver disease in their 40's admitted into hospital. It must be very hard for you as well, do call us if you need a chat.
Yes,I was 40 when I ended up in hospital presenting decompensated cirrhosis. Lucky I caught it in time. I’m surprised heavy drinkers are not urged to have an ultrasound before it get serious!?????
He's in denial by sounds. Get him to watch Phil Mitchell on YouTube. He thought he was fine. Then suddenly vomited a hugh amount of blood. Then your in big trouble. Life or death situation. This can happen to heavy drinkers. Please take it serious. Get his liver checked. Before it could be too late. Best wishes
I really appreciate your analogy and will definitely use it in talks with people I know who drink alot!
"If you were to prick your hand and it was to bleed, it will heal and repair itself. Now, if you were to prick your hand 100 times, it would still heal but will begin to scar. Now, if you were to prick your hand 500 times, well, it’s just not going to make it. The liver is a bit like this."
Hello and welcome,
The department of health guidelines on alcohol consumption is 14 units a week spread out over the week with at least 2-3 consecutive days off alcohol a week. Your husband is drinking way above this level and putting is health at risk.
Katie has already shared our information on Alcohol and liver disease.
If you are in the UK, you are very welcome to call our nurse helpline to talk about this confidentially.
0800 652 7330 Mon to Fri 10am to 3pm- we are closed on Bank holiday Monday.
Hi I'd tell your hubby from me. He needs to sort this out ASAP. Liver disease is often silent until its too late.. Believe me when you get poorly as a result its hurrendous. Stop now before it's possibly too late.
Hi there,My husband use to drink daily, had awful withdrawal when he stopped after one of his binges, at his worst he was consuming around 230 units of alcohol per week, very dangerous levels. Every Christmas and special event I dreaded as it was just an excuse to get smashed, and cause chaos. Christmas after Christmas was always ruined, and he was continually drunk for weeks on end.
We had so many arguments about his relationship with alcohol, so much so that I reached my limit and just let him get on with it, and I went back to full time work.
He had bloods done a few years ago which didn’t show anything, roll onto to last June, he began vomiting a lot of blood, was admitted to hospital and endured a 3 1/2 week stay whereby he spent 11 days in ICU, the doctor told myself that they were very concerned and had no idea if he would make it. He was taken to theatre to pinpoint where the bleeding was coming from, and also had post op delirium and a DOLs was put in place at this point.
He has now gone 11 months without a drink which is amazing, and I’m very proud of him, however had he not been admitted to hospital I’m pretty sure he would have continued to drink, it’s been a very long hard road, and his behaviour whilst he was under the control of alcohol was erratic and downright disgusting at times.
Moving on he has been diagnosed with decompensated cirrhosis, he has chronic fatigue, feels generally unwell most of the time, his appetite has suffered and he is very fussy with food because he feels sick.
Your husband has to want to stop, nothing you say or do will make that happen, it sooner or later the consequences will catch up with him. Alcohol is a very dangerous substance.
I don't have much to add to what's been said here--these folks have seen it all.
Some may win the genetic lottery and never develop cirrhosis despite heavy drinking. Some don't win. By the time he would find he doesn't have the golden ticket and starts feeling ill, it would be too late. At his rate, and with ibuprofen, he is very much at risk.
This site is filled people your husband's age and younger who drank themselves into a terrible place. Have your husband scroll through these tales. I'm in late 30s, drank about 4 pints (avg.) most days for 15 years (with a day or two off each week, the odd weeks and months off sprinkled in--had a great personal and professional life), and realize now that life would have been better without alcohol this entire time. I'm too poorly to take advantage of this new knowledge. Ironically I quit before knowing my liver was gone. I felt fine, until I didn't.
Life expectancy for alcoholics who come down with symptoms is a few years (there are exceptions of course), and the end looks bad. It's the worst game of Russian roulette one can imagine, and there are many bullets in that revolver.
my dad was a drinker and now he is 61 and dying with liver disease. I warned him but now he says he wishes there were pictures of sick people on bottles of liquor, the truth is he probably would have ignored it. Alcohol produces a STRONG CHEMICAL addiction in it's long term heavy users, if you have ever seen Trailer Park Boys from Canada, maybe its not everyone's cup of tea but one character on there is an alcoholic and he often says "The liquor’s calling the shots now". Chemical dependence is very real and very strong, your husband needs to see the documentary on BBC, I believe it's called Rain in My Heart, its on Youtube. My dad didnt think it was going to be him, he now wishes he had more life ahead, hes in a lot of pain.
Sorry to hear that. Yes alcohol is a LIE. It’s a shame the way they market it and get people addicted. I’m 39 and definitely seeing it through a different set of eyes than I did a few years ago. I wish I Hadn’t been gullible to it.
A short update. Hubby was out boozing Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday. I told him I am worried about the amount he is drinking and predictably he said he thinks he is fine but agreed to have a day off. So yesterday he had his first day off in god knows how long, but he was so grumpy about being "made to" do it I can't see another day off happening again soon.It's really difficult to make him see what he is doing to himself. He is pretty clueless about how much is consuming. When I said he had been drinking all day on Sunday he said he started at 8pm in the pub , and I had to remind him he started at at 2pm at home (after getting up at 1). He said oh yeah but it was only 2 beers. It was 3. He shrugged that off as a small amount of beer (but it was the prelude to 6 hours in the pub....) It's not like he's lying to me - I was there while he was drinking, but he seems oblivious to the fact that he's even doing it! When I said it's been more than a year since he had a day off he said "I had a day off last Saturday" - so I said, no you had a beer. Oh yes but that was only 1 he replied. (I didn't mention that I know he was hungover most of the day and that's why he just had the one). It's like beer doesn't count unless he drinks A LOT of it. Small amounts (up to 6 units daily) count as nothing in his mind.
I honestly don't think he will really think this through for himself until something bad happens to him.
He may not seem to care much and shrug it off, but trust me, when he wakes up around 3 am with the infamous booze anxiety/insomnia he will be thinking of this. Trust me.
you are right, something bad could happen and then only can he look into death and get scared. Someone with this disease does a very good job lying to themselves. First step is that he needs to see that there is a problem, my dad only now can see this and even now...there is some lying to himself how incredibly toxic the liquor was for him. There were times where he was drinking a whole 700ml of Brandy EVERYDAY for a week then had to take a break to switch for 2 weeks to "just a bottle of wine" a day, he thought that was the mild stuff. incredible amount, I didn't know how he survived these drinking sessions... but really the disease was killing him then.
Hi there,Your last sentence comes back to me, no matter how much I told him his relationship with alcohol was unhealthy he just wouldn’t listen.
I often used to say to my friend unless something serious happens he won’t stop.
That something serious did happen last summer, and it was exactly the wake up call he needed.
Anything that was wrong he always said, it’s not the drink, I never argued, no point, you can’t get any sense out of someone under the influence, just let him get on with it.
Over the past 6 weeks he’s actually been saying had I known the drink would do this and make me feel so poorly I would never have drunk like I did, I always did say to him, I told you one day it would catch up with you and it has, so it seems he’s actually starting to accept that alcohol has done an awful lot of damage, not only to his health but also to friendships and to our family. I got to the point where I refused to go out with him, been there, done that and it’s not fun watching someone get himself in all sorts of trouble, been aggressive and trying to get reactions, he’s had so many negative experiences yet still continued to drink.
Just remember nothing you say or do will make him give the alcohol up, he has to want to do it for him, and sadly sometimes something serious does have to happen.
Make sure you are also taking time out for you, do something you enjoy, that’s really important to maintain some normality, in all the drama and chaos that alcohol causes.
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