Hi everyone I had bloods done a few days ago and just had a call from the GP he said my GGT levels were the highest hes ever seen @1335. I have really been abusing alcohol for the past 7 months while being off work. My last binge was about 3/4 days before the test. My ALT also was 114. Vit B also high. We have arranged another test in 8 weeks. My question is do you think if I abstain from alcohol and eat healthy do you think these numbers will normalize by then
Also are they representative of cirrhosis?
I know people can only give advice but I would welcome any comments.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Nick
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Figures should improve with abstinence (they reflect that your liver is currently inflamed). It's hard to say whether they will become normal in that time - probably unlikely. Impossible to say on your cirrhosis question, you really, really need to reassess your relationship with alcohol because it's doing your liver no good.
Thank you for your reply. Your right on all accounts, my liver is inflamed currently I can feel it under my ribs and I do need to reassess my relationship with alcohol. It's no excuse but with lockdown and being unable to work for 7 months things just spiraled. I'm 1.5 weeks alcohol free now and have no desire to drink again. Thank you for your time take care nick x
Hey Nick I have read a few of your past posts as well as this most recent one. Mate you really do have to stop the booze, its the only way. No point in keep going back to it and then having these moments of panic. Do it and do it for good otherwise you are going to end regretting missing these opportunities to knock it on the head once and for all. From your past posts you have been here before. I understand its not easy but when you do manage it you'll look back and think it wasn't that bad...
Thank you Ironman. Your so right! I do and will knock it on the head this time. I'm a bloody nervous wreck about what dammage I've done. I lay awake most of the night reading into liver disease and tests and studies,symptoms etc...Like I said it's been about a week and a bit now since my last drink and feel pretty good I dont miss it one bit. I'm just annoyed with myself by the way I've behaved. I just hope to god that it isn't to late. But another thing I didn't say is that I'm so weak. I tried to do a push up the other day and couldn't even do one. My mum thinks its cos I've done nothing for 7 months just sat drinking in the house. I hope shes right.
Thank you for reply mate. I will do it this time. Watch this space
Yes been there done that exactly the same and freaked my self out many times. Embrace that fear and use it as a tool in order to never go back there again...ever! Quit the booze....get some nutrition in and build it back up...you don't know at this stage what damage...so run with that for now and stop looking stuff up it doesn't help and it doesn't change anything. I totally understand why you do it ..you are looking for reassurances but then latching on to other symptoms. Take care and stay strong brother.
Hi Nick, ex-drinker here. Giving up was one the hardest things I’ve ever done. I was agitated and knackered for weeks, but it was only a few weeks, and after that, things improved. That was nearly two years ago, and you wouldn’t believe the changes for the better. I still can’t!
If you’ve crossed that line into heavy drinking long term, it’s highly unlikely you’ll be able to drink moderately again. You’ll just go back to heavy drinking. I did that time and time again. No one’s immune as it’s a chemical change in the brain.
But there’s nothing wrong with not drinking again. I’d especially recommend it. Life’s a lot easier that way.
Good luck and do whatever it takes to get through the first few weeks. You’re in for some pleasant surprises after that 👍
Thank you coco. Messages like yours give hope. Things are already improving lifes a whole lots better in every way. Drinking made me depressed then that would lead to more drink. Life is actually getting better. I still have my job after 7 months suspension which is a blessing. Now I just have to keep away from that poison. It's been okay so far. As I've said messages like yours give hope to people like me. Thank you coco take care nick x
I found Kevin O Hara Alcohol Mastery videos good on YouTube and also Tim Johnson...watch some of the early ones...as Coco said its hard but a good fecking scare worked for me and I used that as furl for not wanting to go back there. Give up and then change mindset on thinking of the future not drinking....I'm happy with my situation but man I'm so annoyed I didn't do it 10 years ago.
I'm fucking annoyed also. I say it to myself all the fucking time. If only!!!! Hey ho it's done now we just have to look forward now. I've signed up for alcohol master class I get a video a day. I will look out for Tim. Thanks again mate
I deserve to be told off! But your so right I abused my body and like you have done for years. Thank God you dodged that bullet and have turned your life around. I pray it's not to late for me but I wonder. Life, like you said is so much better without the demon booze. Its caused nothing but trouble for me, relationships, work, the law and now my health. There is no going back. I'm making this promise to myself and everyone on here! Thank you again.
A friend of my wife was a heavy drinker, in the pub all day long, and was recently diagnosed with cirrhosis. It’s not looking good at all. He’s not much older than me. It shook my wife up as she saw where I’d likely have been heading if I’d carried on.
That's bad. Sorry for him. Like you said you've dodged that sentence so keep at it. I'm so scared my mum said that this is the kick up the arse I've needed for along time. I ain't being that person again. Thanks mate
Nick, congratulations on staying sober for the time you have, it can't be easy, especially at the moment. I really don't know about alcohol addiction, but I do know how the liver can effect muscle mass, so it may well be worth mentioning your weaknesses to your, GP. I don't want to make you worry any more but one of the first symptoms of my liver disease was being weak and my legs collapsed, on several occasions. A Dietitian should be able to calculate your muscle mass, and determine if you need more protein in your diet, I ended up being given Renpro shots, which are, little bottles of protein that are a supplement.
Thank you TBSW. Yeah it is concerning I really don't know why, my mum thinks its because I really haven't done anything for such a long time. I've recently started going back to the gym but after 7months of not eating properly and drinking alot and basically not leaving the house my mum just thinks it's just natural to loose mass and strength by not doing anything.I also broke my proximal humorous about 11 months ago so she thinks that could be the a reason for the loss. The thing is I have loads of energy its just strength I'm lacking so I really dont know. I should be able to do 1 push up despite this injury.I am eating loads and having late night snacks of protein and carbs to prevent muscle depletion during the night.
I haven't had any weight loss either.
Did you also have deranged LFts?
My Bil and Proteins are all in range total protein is 65 and albumin is 35. They didn't do INR but I'm not bleeding or bruising, its really just my GGT that shocked me.
It must have been a shock when you legs gave way.
Was that your only symptom and lead you to visit the doctors?
Hi Nick, I hope your doing well, sorry it's taken so long to get back to you.
My story is quite long sorry, you may need to sit down.
Five years ago, we returned from a tropical holiday, and shortly after I needed routine blood tests done for other conditions. It was due to the raised LFT's results that my GP thought I may have contracted hepatitis from the swimming pool, which wasn't chlorinated.
I was sent to a heptologist who performed an ultrasound. This confirmed cirrhosis, which was a surprise, as I had only ever had maybe a couple of glasses of wine a year. However my consultant went onto explain this was due to NASH, which was down to obesity.
An endoscopy showed I had portal hypertension and oesophageal varices. I was closely monitored for the next three years. But then came the collapses, first of all they put it down to a mini stroke, then when that was negative they thought it may be Multiple sclerosis. It was only after a harrowing drive to my consultation with my heptologist, where I ended up nearly driving down the wrong side of the dual carriageway, did I mention everything that had been happening over the past few months. He immediately diagnosed hepatic encephalopathy, which is a rare complication of cirrhosis. This was confirmed via an EEG.
Things began to move fast then, my liver had become decompensated, and I now needed a liver transplant. During the following 18 months, I became weaker, both in body and mind. My liver was causing my muscles to weaken, and I may this year I had to be hospitalised and be fed via a nasal gastric tube, just so they could try and keep my strength up. My consultant advised that we were getting extremely close to me being taken off the transplant list due to my muscle weakness, as I wouldn't survive the operation. Thankfully due to the excellent care I received, and after four weeks of tube feeding, I finally got the call from Birmingham. It's now six months since my transplant and I haven't felt this good in the last 10 years.
I really hope, you manage to retain your strength, and like I said previously a dietitian can measure your muscle mass and advise the correct diet to be on, and prescribe any protein supplements you may need. Take care and good luck x
Hello thanks for your reply. Your story sounds awful thank god you regained you strength to become strong enough for the TP. My muscles are on the mend as I've been going to the gym nearly every day since its re opened. My weight hasn't dropped or increased and my appetite is that of horse. I'm reading alot about the importance of diet and liver and muscle health so trying to adhere to that.It's so good that you feel great in only 6 months long may it continue.
Like others it's people like you that give hope to others.
I've lost count but think it's about 25 days without alcohol. That's a record for me.
I pray that my next bloods will be better.
Good luck and thanks for taking the time to reply x
Brilliant, Nick, you certainly seem to be in a good place currently. I'm sure if you ever feel like wavering, you'll find plenty of support on this forum. Take care and I look forward to hearing about your improved results in a few months time x
I second Ironman. You really do not want to get liver disease seriously! You have a chance and had warnings from the doc. Many of us had no idea we were destroying our livers until it was to late.
Hi there. I had my bloods drawn for something else in October. All mine were fine besides the alt was 42 so ran my ggt 216. I hadn’t been drinking for past 8 days upto the test as i was taking ibuprofen. I had a liver condition with pregnancy so my doctor is sending me for a scan and the bloods but she did say they usually just test in 3 months again, my friend had the same she has fatty liver but she had 3 blood tests before having her scan.
Have you been taking anything else? My doctor seems to think mine may be due to the ibuprofen I had taken cos I had been taking it for 8 days 3 times a day. Also if you have issues with gallbladder they can also rise. My scan is December 17tj can’t come quick enough 😩
Hi lucky. Firstly good luck for the 17th I'm sure your reading would be down to the ibuprofen you have been taking. As for me ironically I don't take any tablets as I consider them to be bad for the liver! Stupid I know as I've near on destroyed it with drink. I'm taking one day at a time that's all I can do. I just pray they will normalize in 8/9 weeks. I've looked at the half life of GGt and it says up to 26 days so in theory ours should have reduced. Let us know how it goes on the 17th. Take care and good luck nickx
Did you not drink before your bloods then I saw you had them a few days ago but hadn’t drank for a week. I’m wondering if mine is alcohol related aswell if it takes a while to come down. I drink Prosecco but not loads maybe couple glasses of wine a night or one! Go a miss some days but the 8 days before my test I didn’t drink obviously. We shall see I never noticed it before so not sure if it’s in my head but feel like I can feel an ach under ribs but like I said never felt it before test just after so idk if it’s in my head or not 🤣🤦🏻♀️
Hi again. Yeah I did drink before the bloods stopped for about 3 days before. Slightly elevated levels are a good indicator of alcohol consumption. God know what's happened to mine in the 1000s. Well I know I drank pretty much every day for the last 7 months while being off work. I know what you mean about feeling your liver I do it all the time it's the paranoia. Mine is definitely enlarged as I can feel the edge under my right ribcage when i palate it while breathing in. I don't think you have anything to worry about although 2/3glasses is more than what's recommended it's not loads. I'm no doctor but it could be raised because you recently had wine. It's easy for me to say cos I spend all day and night googling results symptoms etc... but try not to stress. Arrange another test but abstain well before it. This should put your mind at ease x
Oh I forgot to say. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to promote this but I've just ordered some milk thistle tablets. It suggests that these lower LFts and promote liver health. Hope this helps nick
You are wasting your money and many hepatologist strongly advise against the use of milk thistle as it can mess up your LFT's. There is no scientific evidence that these help in liver disease at all and the BLT strongly advise against alternative and herbal remedies unless you have run them past your own medical team. You also have to be careful of the ingredients as some is sold in an alcohol based 'tincture'. britishlivertrust.org.uk/in...
Thanks katie. I really didn't know that. It was just what I've googled. Thank you for clearing that up. I really didn't know. That's surprised me. Thank you nick
Lots of anecdotal evidence but it hasn't been thoroughly tested enough to be deemed safe for all. Your liver doesn't need to be processing these sorts of things whilst it's already poorly. Like I say many folks are strongly advised by liver doctors against it.
Don't just jump for so called 'miracle cures' there arn't any. Abstinence, good diet, exercise and generally good healthy lifestyle are what is required and it'll be slow going at first but down the line your body and your liver will thank you for it. I've caring for hubby who has non alcohol related auto immune cirrhosis for almost 9 years now so you pick up lots of information as you go and indeed i've posted lots of replies to you over the past few years so hopefully you are now heeding the message and this is the time when you kick the booze into touch for good.
That is correct. I read on milk thistle and began taking it to reduce enzyme levels. When I met with the hepatologist he advised that I stopped taking the milk thistle as it may be causing more harm than good. He's been a hepatologist for over 30 years and said studies have shown improvement on rats, but not humans. He also advised to stay away from vitamin supplements aside from the regular B12, vitamin D... Wishing you the best.
Sorry Nick, me again, please don't knock to yourself over this. If this gives you a bit of good news, my son who is in his late 30's abused alcohol and drugs for years after he left home, as a teenager, we were totally unaware of his situation as we were estranged from him at the time. We got back in touch with him a few years ago, he'd kicked the drugs but unfortunately alcohol still had a hold. It was only when he had a shock similar to you with abnormal blood results, and liver damage did he finally kick it on the head. Last week he called to say that his latest scan and blood tests have now returned to the normal range. He was so pleased as we're we, being a liver transplant recipient myself, the last thing I wanted was him going through what I did. Thankfully he's seen his recent experience as a warning. Take care, stay strong, it will work out for you.
Thank you so much. I hope it works out for him. Sometimes a good kick up the arse is what we need.That's good news hopefully he can turn his life around.
Thank you again for the reply keep strong and safe.
Nick. Just tell the doc you are an alcoholic and you need help to fight it. The doc can either refer you to support or just give you a script for meds that will help you through the toughest weeks when you are withdrawing. But you then need to get someone to watch your back. Someone to keep you on track. Someone that you will be answerable to if you slip. If you are accountable you're more likely to stick it out. There are lots of online groups - like this one- and on FB that do help. AA is the obvious thing but it doesn't work for everyone. Good luck
Thank you scousewoman. I think judging by my bloods hes aware of my addiction. It's been a week and a half now and now withdrawal symptoms touch wood. Tbh the latest blood works have scared me so much I will never drink again. I just hope the dammage I've caused is reversible but the numbers and symptoms say different, all I can do is take one day at a time. Like I've said I'm having more bloods done in 8 weeks to see if they have dropped. Good advice about support groups as I'm writing this I'm in a AA Zoom meeting. That's one good thing about lockdown it has opened a whole avenue of on line support. Thank you for the advice people on here give brilliant support and hope.Thanks again take care nick x
My GP was quite pleased I said I drank too much and wanted to stop. There was no telling off, and a GP must be a lot happier with a proactive patient rather than one who’s left it too long.
What I will say is calculate how much you’ve drunk per week on average, put that into U.K. units and tell your GP that figure. It doesn’t help when patients give vague figures.
Also, GPs know full well that a heavy drinker can’t become a moderate one, but they don’t seem to say so. Maybe they’re tired of heavy drinkers not listening. To make your GP take you more seriously, say you are quitting, not cutting down
Again good advice. I have been honest with him. I said about 180 units per week. I agree with you its better to be honest after all the bloods dont lie. I have also told him that I'm stopping not reducing to which hes happy with. I just hope that in 8 weeks the bloods would have come down in level. Thanks coco
Hi Nick,
Your abstinence from alcohol will improve your liver function but you will need tests to determine if there is any fibrosis or scarring.
You seem to have real insight into your drinking now, we hope you can get the specialist support you need to change your life and be healthy. Keep us all posted
Thank you Trust1. I know I will need further tests the doc suggested a US but I said lest just see after 8/9 weeks of sobriety then reassess.To be honest I'm scared stuff of knowing the results from the fibro/US as I. Pretty sure I know what they will show. I will keep you posted. Thanks nick
Hi NickIt is time to divorce yourself from all forms of alcohol. You will never live a life void of suffering while in bed with the bottle. Toxic. GGT and other markers together just tell you what you already know. You’re killing yourself slowly. It’s only a question of how that death will be...your body and mind are hooked. You cannot ever go back to drinking not even that one, ‘it won’t hurt’, low alcohol beer...no one can save you, but maybe someone can help you. Put someone in charge of all your money that you cannot touch...soberly sit down and work out how every penny is spent (no alcohol) .a sign at the door, an alcohol free zone... and when the siren of booze lures you into the darkness to crash upon its rocky, uneven shores, remember this time you might not wake up to an angry sun.
Hi there I feel pretty much in the same boat,booze has played a massive part of my life and 7 years ish Ago i showed symptoms and nothing done and carried on drinking to now im worried it’s serious and waiting for a scan,ive had ultrasound and it shows fatty and enlarged which the way ive always described it as it feels like a brick sat on my stomach and the annoying pain in the ribs,after seeing the comments on milk thistle im gonna stop taking that,drinking ive cut down to what i drank last month was normally what id drink in a week only im now on day 3 without and if I said I was never gonna drink again id be lying but I hope its not very often and moderate or maybe never again(you never know)im just struggling with the habit of it cos the not drinking alcohol isn’t really bothering me its the nightcap and the beer before tea and the one after then the wine with telly and oooh the lovely whisky and leaving the shop without bottles chinking thats weird and since cutting down ive realised I didn’t need it or the debts its given me and now this worrying how much damage ive done so yes we need to get off and stay off the demon
Firstly mate well done for the 3 days. They say every journey begins with on step. I really can relate to what your saying. I also feel a huge amount of guilt of what I've done to my body as since being soba life is good. Theres so much to see and do but like you I'm worried that the dammage has been done. If your US showed just a fatty liver then you've dodge bullet and can turn your life around while it's not to late. People say im Such a better person when not drinking i bet your the same. I think my local offie will be going bust since I've stopped visiting twice aday. We can do this! times are hard for everyone atm and Christmas is always difficult but I know from my results I cannot go back to drink. You said it we both need to stay off the demon. Good luck Mondy let me know. Be strong nick
Oh also what's been helping me when I'm struggling is AA meetings via zoom. There every day yesterday was a 24hour one. Even if it takes your mind off it for 20min it's a help
Hi Mondy yes well done! It definitely gets easier and now looking back I often as myself...why! Keep it going and make the changes necessary. I honestly think alcohol needs more intervention but I'm sure the tax outweighs the cost.
Yeh i have up and down days and today ive felt great,getting used to not drinking every night and some would slap me but i have had a drink but minimal I think it works out at a half bottle of whisky 1 beer and a wkd over the last 2 weeks which is less than I would of normally had in 1 day,want to get Christmas out of the way and then can really get stuck into getting more healthy and hopefully get my scan done,hows you?
Dont get to annoyed about the drink, in the whole scheme of things honestly that's not to bad if you were having that and some in one day. It's still reducing the amount you drink. I've said to other on here its baby steps. Every little helps. I liked a whiskey and a beer but FFS a WKD???? What were you thinking? Ha ;).Like you said get Christmas out the way then knuckle down.
I'm 26 or 28 days now free from that shit feeling better each day, just wish I could bloody sleep!
I really find the support from this forum helps loads. Your never alone on here and people dont judge.
Hi Nick_113. After having multiple blood readings and highly elevated liver enzymes (350-400) I was referred to the hepatologist who completed an ultrasound and said I had fatty liver. He said my liver showed damage but no scarring but to hold off on alcohol entirely. I'm 35 days sober today and feel great despite years of heavy abuse. I have become more anxious in the past few months so I met with my general doctor who prescribed me hydroxezine (25mg) a night to help with sleep and anxiety. It's an antihistamine so it also helps with the terrible itching I had at night while anxiously searching for answers on every forum possible. The medicine has no effects on the liver like other anxiety meds (benzodiazepines) and I haven't slept this well in years. Hope things are running smoothly on your end and you maintain sobriety.
Hi Nick. There is a vast difference between someone drank 1 bottle of wine a night and someone like you who has been on over 180 units per week. I truly hope you can quit, please get professional help if you struggle before your physical health and mental health suffers. Doctors do understand all aspects of addiction and really do want to help and will.Take care of yourself.
Thank you laura. Your right I am out of my depth. Both my mental and physical health have already been affected, as with my marriage, work finances etc.. the list goes on. So far it's been okay no withdrawal symptoms and few cravings. The last bloods were the kick up my arse I needed just hope it's not to late.
I'm never drinking again!
I aways read your posts laura and you give very good advice and support to people like me, and i thank you for that.
Hi all just to say IMO and I understand for some its extremely difficult but the mindset of drinking or thinking about it has to change. My mate drinks a lot and recently had LFT inc GGT and hey presto all in range after years and years. Now after my concerns I like Nick have read and read and read and realise in the grand scale of things its a snapshot of the current situation. Anyway he too keeps talking himself back into the good times of booze and says he would like to be a social drinker...family events, weddings, Xmas and the like where we use alcohol to celebrate. My interpretation of that is its just good marketing and we have been brainwashed into thinking they go hand in hand. For me I think you have to suffer the withdrawl in the initial phase and the weeks after but then you have to move on and not think day everyday what am I going to do tonight without alcohol. Its done your done with it, move on otherwise its like a prison sentence in its own right.
Your so right. I have taken heed. Your friends very lucky. I'm making steps to a soba life. As I write this I'm in the gyms carpark plucking up the courage to go in. Thanks ironman. Take care nick
HI Nick, sorry to read of your troubles. Sounds like you've made the right choice - stop drinking. If it helps, I had mild fatty liver diagnosed in Dec, but by May, through not drinking i was lucky enough to turn that around. What really helped me is the AF drinks, alcohol free - the beers are really really good now. I use drydrinker.com your not going to save money, and it stings a bit to pay so much for AF - but it struck me as better than being dead. I started to drink again mid year, but then just done three months straight with no drinks, and I got some all clears last week - so tried a beer - and TBH, it was way to strong for my new taste, so i';ve gone and ordered more AF drinks again. Good luck with your journey.
Thanks mayk your very lucky keep it up. I've tried AF but it doesn't hit the spot I'm better just having none. I will try cold turkey. I'm really trying as we spk I'm waiting to go into the gym. First time since March! its a start ah.Thanks for your support mate. Nick
I was in a similar spot to you with raised bloodwork etc a month ago, quitting alcohol really helped. Also don’t be scared to get that ultrasound. I ended up with one and it came back clear, and that knowledge helps a lot. Uncertainty sucks and the fewer distractions from sobriety the better. It’s hard work as it is.
Congrats mate on the scan and quitting alcohol. I've done the same. I've arranged for more bloods to be taken in 8 weeks think I'll give it 9 just cos that extra week might make all the difference:). If they haven't reduced dramatically then I guess I will have to bite the bullet and have that scan. I know it would put my mind at ease because it's the speculating that's worrying, all the what ifs etc....I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks mate and keep it up. Nick
Still here mate. Another day nearly done. Hit the gym again and stocked up on green teas! Just doing a AA zoom meeting now. Thanks for asking. Hope your well. Thanks for asking it means alot.
Yeah thank you for asking. I have the odd craving now and again but they pass. Like I've said life is so much better not being under the influence every day. I'm doing all I can to get my bloods down and up in some areas. I really have made the decision not to drink again. Just hope it's in time. Tbh I'm getting sick marks on my legs and if i rest my leg say on a pillow for a bit it leaves a mark. Now I'm paranoid its odema, I've done the finger test etc and it doesn't stay so god knows. That's my anxiety atm for you.
Anyway one day at a time mate we'll see.
Thanks for the message I hope your doing okay.
I think getting back to work will help me loads give me a distraction.
Yeah all good. The thing is I feel absolutely fine I had a couple of months off. But slowly seeping back into old habits. I'm trying though. I'm gonna have another test in a few weeks. Hopefully it will be lower. When I had the original test done I was drinking 1l of vodka a day, maybe more. I had terrible DTs after I stopped. But I feel 100% now still working the front line (as they call it) I just hope the results will be near normal. Thank you for the message. Take care bud. I'll let you know
Glad to hear that things are going better and hopefully ur bloodwork is reassuring. I would imagine DT’s were horrible for that amount of liquor and I sure know how hard it is to wean off and cut back. Sending positive vibes ur way to rid those old habits creeping back. Take care as well and please do update. 🙏🏾
Hi Kittycatcat. I was going to get them redone a couple of weeks ago but I had a blip that lasted about a week so I'm going again in a few weeks time. Thank you for the reply.Take care nick x
Hi. I'm doing really well. I have mot had the 2nd blood test yet still to scared to do so. I have mscaryonths off the booze then ruin it with a bender like just before Christmas. I feel healthy, well had a really bad bought of diarrhea over Christmas, I'm putting that down to the booze. I feel OK though loads of energy I was going to the gym every day at 4am before work. I try and attend aa at least once a week and also doing the SMART recovery once a week. I will give it another few month of being off the booze then brave the test. I will let you know. But that initial reading was scary! Gotta go meeting about to start. Thank you.I will let you know. Take care NIck
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