Hi if you like the taste of wine there is elsberg red that is zero alcohol it's lovely to, I get mine from Amazon so you can have a few glasses with out the worry of a tiny bit of alcohol in the Becks blue
Nonon alcohol wine: Hi if you like the... - British Liver Trust
I'm sorry, but I have to totally disagree with you. If you have alcohol-related liver disease and are trying to abstain from alcohol this is is NOT the way to go. These are just triggers and need to be avoided.
Doesn’t it depend on the individual? I’m an ex-drinker and find an alcohol-free beer hits the spot, but I won’t touch the real stuff ever again hopefully. Alcohol-free drinks are improving all the time, and I’ve read several posts on this forum from other ex-drinkers who now only drink alcohol free.
Im gonna assume this is a troller Richard. The profile was created today. This guy makes a profile on a liver disease forum and posts nothing but to tell us all about this ellsberg red available on amazon? Sounds like a marketing pitch. One in poor taste pardon the pun.
I've got you.
I was beginning to think that the "trigger" aspect was being ignored. It's the triggers that plant the temptation and thoughts into the mind. I don't have to tell you this Phoenix, but someone who is still in the early stages of alcohol reform, will not feel strong enough to risk walking down the booze Isles in the local supermarket, or even dare going into a pub. All these actions take time for a persons resolve to build up.
Drinking an non-alcohol substitute is not addressing the risk of cravings. I wouldn't even think of drinking apple juice or even fizzy apple pop (soda) when I stopped. It just takes time. It's been nearly five years since I last had any alcohol and now I have no qualms about going into a pub, pouring my wife a glass of wine. Hell, I've even done a trip around the Marston's Brewery up in Burton-upon-Trent. I can most defiantly say that my alcohol issues are now firmly behind me. And it feels so good to be in control of your life instead of being controlled by a bottle, or a need.
Congratulations Richard! I'm well impressed with your achievements!
Agreed totally Richard. The physical addiction is the easy part. The mental addiction is a different beast entirely. Substitution does nothing for the mental rehabilitation.
I have had a liver transplant. I have not had an alcoholic drink for nearly five years and I don't intend to ever again. I drink loads of water, coffee, tea, Belvoir ginger cordial and diet tonic and alcohol free lager. I agree with CocoNutWater that it is an individual choice. So long as it's not alcohol what does it matter what your choice is. It's a bit like saying to someone giving up vodka and lemonade you must not drink lemonade because it looks like vodka and it might start you drinking again. Only you yourself know where your strengths lay on this matter. Alf
Spot on freddy. I don’t but I don’t have that sort of wil power and in any case last time I tried non alcoholic anythng was aboutb10 years ago and it yasted like s not very nice 😁
I don't totally disagree with you, but my husband was allowed by his liver doctor, here in the US, to drink non-alcoholic beer and he has not gone back to the real thing.
The hubby did ask his liver doctor about the reasons behind not drinking and agreed with him that even one "real" drink would most likely restart the whole abuse thing again. And actually, after about a year and half or more of hubby not drinking and improving blood work and no other issues during hubby's follow up visits I asked if non-alcoholic would be okay for him. The doctor gave his okay.
I agree that for some the trigger may never go away and none of us know who that will be so it needs to be carefully thought through, but it is working for us.
I do think if the issue of transplant ever comes up the doctor may reverse his decision or also if hubby's follow ups stop showing improvements even slight.
p.s. I think it helps when there support around for the person.
Isn’t that like a vegetarian ‘sausage’?
Guess it all depends why your drinking it. If its to substitute the void left from alcoholism then the habit isnt broken and the foe is not defeated. Sure its not going to give you liver disease and is safer an alternative that way. Depends what "demons" a person battles and which ones they dont. Or choose not to. To each is own really. What one person decides for themselves is not my damn to give. But most addiction counsels advice against it because again its substituting instead of overcoming. Most with actual liver disease choose not to play with fire.
They ask about substitutes during the assessment process. To use them is seen as a negative. Hard choices have to be made. People who cannot overcome addiction illness are not considered suitable.
Plan A would be to avoid the assessment process. Love your liver.
The Guardian article mentions George Best and people who drink alcohol shouldn’t be on transplant lists. Like Alf, I don’t drink any more, but I drink Heineken 0%. I recently cooked chicken in cider and had half a bottle of cider left which I sniffed before pouring down the sink. I think, well hope, I’ve beaten the urge to drink, which is very much a mental thing. If I’d taken a swig from the cider, the physical effects would be zero, but some part of my brain would be welcoming back its old friend and wanting more. That doesn’t happen with alcohol-free beer and wine in my case, so I’ll continue drinking it.
If you have cirrhosis, alcohol use in cooking is on the no list.
I don’t have cirrhosis, but there’s no reason why cooking with alcohol should be a problem for anyone. Problems such as an alcohol dependent avoiding alcohol or they’ll relapse are well documented and backed up by countless research papers. I’ve seen no papers advising against alcohol free drinks - I’m willing to be proved wrong - and definitely not cooking with alcohol as the alcohol will evaporate. It’s alcohol free, flavoured water with meat and veg. You might as well ban cooked chicken as eating it raw can kill.
This discussion came up a few years ago and actually it is a fallacy that alcohol burns off in cookery. I had a medical document at one time which covered it but in lieu of that here is another article i've discovered. lifehacker.com/how-much-alc...
As for alcohol free drinks which still retain the taste and look of booze they are regarded as a no, no for pre-transplant patients where alcohol has been a contributory factor to their liver disease as it shows an unwillingness to separate themselves from booze and doesn't prove the life long commitment to sobriety that transplant assessment and post transplant demands. It is often discussed at transplant centres.
Leeds NHS trust provides the following document regarding 'Alcohol Free Food and Drinks'. flipbooks.leedsth.nhs.uk/LN...
Fair enough, some (40%, according to the link) of the alcohol in my 5% cider (300ml) remained. It was consumed by six people, so each had a 50ml serving of 2% alcohol. I have/had a mild fatty liver and am an alcohol dependent ex-drinker. That amount of alcohol is safe for me. I had no desire to drink alcohol after which would have been the case if I’d swigged the remaining 200ml of the cider in the bottle.
I also acknowledge the transplant prerequisite of avoiding alcohol free drinks, but as I said above there is overwhelming evidence that a reformed alcohol dependent will revert to heavy drinking if they start drinking again moderately. However, I’ve not seen any research that alcohol free drinks lead to a return to heavy drinking.
From the Leeds document I linked to:-
Why is it important to avoid ‘alcohol free’ drinks?
•Even ‘alcohol-free’ drinks can have negative effects for people who have had a liver transplant for alcohol-related or alcohol-contributory liver disease •Acquiring a taste for alcohol can cause alcohol cravings to resurface, risking a relapse to drinking alcohol again
•Sometimes drinking ‘alcohol free’ drinks can trick your brain into thinking that you are really drinking alcohol
•When this happens it can cause an urge or craving to drink alcohol again
•The danger in these situations is that the change in your usual behaviour is so minimal that switching back to regular beer is often a small step
•Simply replacing alcoholic beer with ‘non-alcoholic’ beer without having given it a second thought is not a good idea
•It is also important to note that some ‘alcohol free’ beers do actually contain small amounts of alcohol.
•When you are in a social situation or at the pub it is possible to get drinks mixed up and find you have mistakenly drunk some alcohol without meaning to.
A great post. I have read as well that the fermentation process of making wine and beer makes it impossible to remove the alcohol fully even if the label says 0 percent.
I think over in America, that if the contents of a product is less than 3%, then it's claimed to be zero.
So, products that claim zero sugar, or zero alcohol may contain traces.
Hi Phoenix. safe daily alcohol limits for for Becks lager is 2 small bottles, this is the equivalent of 200 bottles of Becks Blue. I would imagine that I absorb more alcohol through body cleansing products than I ever do through drinking Becks Blue. I first started drinking Becks blue when I started socialising again after my years of illness. Going to relatives houses for Sunday lunch etc and them saying well, can't you just have one or a small one? I now take Becks Blue with me. I like the taste, it shuts everybody else up and that conversation doesn't arise any more. it's now one of the varied drinks (tea, coffee, Belvoir ginger, tonic, breakfast orange) that I have at home depending on how the mood takes me. People all have their own reasons for drinking alcohol free and I think that if it's what works for them then it's a good thing. That's my thoughts on the subject! lol. All the best. Alf
Thanks for posting the document Katie. That is exactly what was made clear to me at the Royal Free assessment. I even asked about using white wine vinegar in a salad dressing. If you were called after eating a beef bourguignon, you would test positive for alcohol. Most people are aware of the implications.
Well done Katie, very well said.
Coq sans Vin is safe to eat if you are on a transplant list. It is made 100% clear at the assessment.
Not everyone, as a previous post ‘suggested’, can cook with alcohol. Katie is totally correct, it does not evaporate.
I didn’t get asked that. My questions were same as bigfred.
Edit - and I did, supposedly 😁, have alcoholic cirrhosis...
Different hospitals, different questions? I am sure that you have seen Katie’s link? I remember the question very well. I had already been abstinent for two years. It took them a while to get me well enough to be assessed.
That is why you were not asked the question about substitutes Alf.
So this may be a little off the rails, but I quit smoking cigarettes about 18 years ago and will say, No way would I have ever quit without the use of nicotine gum. I chewed that gum like a cow in a wheat field for years. I kinda lean with do whatever works. If you can drink NA drinks without going back to drinking, knock yourself out. After all, we are adults and know the consequences of our poor choices. If a person likes the taste ,or flavor of a non alcoholic beer where else would they get the beer taste? Lots of people drink them that simply enjoy it for what it is. We do it with sugar, smoking, fat free this ,or that. If your a danger to going back to drinking ,then for sure stick to ice tea or water. Interesting topic though. Hope you all are well.😀
My son in his 30's and his mates ( all with their own families now) meet up once in while for a game of pool and when they do they drink alcohol free beers. I think that's great. They can all go in their cars without worrying about being over the drink driving limit and they go home sensible at the end of the night. It seems to be the trend with many of the younger ones now in this area and that's got to be for the good. Less liver problems in years to come and a big saving for the NHS.
No thanks, surely that is the road back to the hard stuff
I drink the red and the white x it’s goegeous and I too order it from Amazon. I have ARLD and was seriously dependent on it that I needed medical detox. It’s w cliche subject and read some of the replies but of my new addiction is AF red wine there are worse things I can do. We have given up Alcohol and I intend never to drink again for my life and health xx
Thanks for this. I didnt realise that there was a tiny bit of alcohol in Becks Blue, I have been drinking this! If I am going to a party or have friends around for dinner I like to "join in" but for my friends as they feel awkward and say that they wont have a drink either and I enjoy it but I will have a look for the drink you have recommended
Can I just make a point that no everyone on this forum is here because of alcohol related cirrhosis or liver disease?? I have PBC and AIH, this is genetic and not my fault. I miss alcohol and I drink Becks Blue to compensate. I would love a good non-alcoholic wine alternative but all I have tasted are too sweet and I don't like them.
I totally understand triggers for people with Alcohol related liver issues however don't assume we're all in the same boat.
Nobody chooses to be ill, whatever the cause.
Lots of people find alcohol-free wine and beer keeps them off the real thing. I'd suggest people in early recovery avoid it for the psychological reasons already discussed but I know hundreds of people who find it helps them stay sober. I run an online business based on alcohol-free wine and beer that's been around for 12 years. AF is not for everyone. It's a very individual choice. It does help a lot of people. But I wouldn't dream of pitching here as the original poster has done.
Off to Brighton on the Lambrettas?
I’m never at lunch Brett!!!
Admin are moderating this thread and we are trying to let people freely debate this subject.
It is up to individuals and their own circumstances , but for some, non alcohol beer and wines are not the right choice, and can trigger.
Thank you to everyone for their contribution and articles.
If you can show some research to this effect, I’ll back down. Numerous research papers, for example, show that most ex-drinkers revert to heavy drinking if they attempt to start again in moderation. That was proof enough for me. But anecdotal evidence or hearsay help no one, sorry. I and another poster on this thread, a liver transplantee, see nothing wrong with alcohol free drinks.
Have you backed down on your position regarding transplant criteria?
snoutie - CocoNutWater
Yes but if he is alcohol dependant, he should not have been considered suitable to be transplanted.
Possibly, but we don’t know the situation. All alcoholics are alcohol dependent. They might give up drinking for the rest of their lives, but if such a person starts drinking again, it’ll all kick off again.
To say someone with an alcohol dependency shouldn’t be considered for a transplant means no alcoholic should get a liver transplant.
It sounds like FrenchiesRule’s husband quit for a considerable time to get and recover from a transplant. However, that urge to drink can come back. I think it’s creditworthy that he checked with his doctor first before drinking.
Some of the replies here are harsh. Alcohol is highly addictive. Giving up is extremely tough regardless of the situation
I don’t have a position on transplant criteria. I’m an ex-drinker with a mild fatty liver. This thread is about alcohol-free drinks which I’m in favour of and I’m not alone. Alf gave a great example of his son and mates getting together and drinking alco free. Imagine if pubs had a huge choice of alcohol free stuff and it tasted great. It works for me and several other people who’ve posted on this thread. I’ll repeat myself to say there is no evidence that ex-drinkers will revert to heavy drinking as a result of alcohol-free drinks.
You are on a liver forum, as you point out. Those are your words regarding transplant criteria, what exactly are your qualifications to make the point about suitability for transplant?
The thread is on a liver forum. The debate is about substitutes. The question is asked in your assessment for transplant. You are in favour of alcohol abusers being transplanted. The implant used on George Best was Campral.
Explain what words I invented? Those are your words.
Alcohol free products are used by the Alcohol Industry to promote their ‘corporate responsibility’. They continue to exert enormous pressure on Government. You promote their products.
Yes, you’re right. I’ll promote alco free products as they will help to reduce alcohol consumption and its related problems. You must surely by now have realised that you won’t change my opinion on this. You haven’t shown any evidence of this trigger effect caused by drinking alcohol free. Hearsay and anecdotes can only work so far.
Family crisis on day 51, Heineken to the rescue.
Oh no snoutie back to the obtuse posts 😁.
What are doing awake at 0300 anyway. Hehe. Well not hehe but you know me!
Time for the PSA test 😢
You’ve inspired me to do two things. Firstly, I don’t need to think too hard for a topic for my 150 days sober posting. I’m also considering starting a micro brewery brewing only alcohol free beer. As I’ll have no connection with Heineken and co, I’ll assume I have your full support. Of course, if someone produces research to show alcohol free drinks cause problems, I’ll stop, but no such research has been done.
You spend a lot of time talking about alcohol. I would suggest a support group:-
If so, it should be pinned so everyone can see it. Bring it on. Alcohol free products are improving all the time. If people start drinking those, there will be a big reduction in alcohol-related diseases and also drink driving. One reason it’s not so popular is the awful taste of the earlier stuff such as Barbican. Now it’s getting better, it will get more popular. If anyone has any ideas on how to reduce alcohol consumption in the U.K., discuss. Mine is to promote alcohol free drinks.
Hey coconut I respect your views but I feel maybe some of your post would be more appropriate on a sobriety or addiction recovery forum. This form is obviously for people with liver disease caused by all types of issues Most people in this forum have years of knowledge about advanced diseases from first hand experience.
Nice one Boone, agree with that, it looks like preaching to the converted?
So why engage with people who are already diagnosed with liver problems? I am actively involved with lobbying groups tackling the issues in Government. Alcohol Industry funded charities such as drinkaware, distort the picture, serving the interests of the alcohol industry shareholders.
Because i have a mild fatty liver almost certainly as a direct consequence of excessive alcohol consumption for many years. I’m now cured (as cured as anyone can be) and am going to be a voluntary counsellor when I’m eligible, i.e, free of addiction for two years. The agency I approached has no problem with alcohol free drinks by the way. I feel I have a lot to offer in terms of experience and understanding. and can do a far better job than the useless counsellor I had to see.
You had a liver transplant, sorry to hear, but this is the British Liver Trust forum and not exclusively for liver transplantees. I think this forum has plenty of room for anyone with a valid contribution.
So tackle the problem at the source, educate people about the harm that alcohol does and do not tell people who have been through a transplant that it is OK cook with alcohol. That advice could be lethal to someone on a transplant list. Personally, I would be happier without you promoting Heineken, but that is a personal matter.
As a recovering alcoholic (16 years sober) I have found this thread fascinating. Richard is correct, we are all adults, and should be equipped to make our own choices. However the mental side of addiction never goes away. So firstly I would ask why drink alcohol free beer/wine. Is it because I want to mix with people who are drinking and not look odd. Secondly I would have to ask myself, why. Admittedly it was a long time ago, but did I really drink for the taste or the effect. For me the effect was paramount. I was also told by someone much wiser than me that alcohol free beers/wines were for non alcoholics. This is a decision that only the individual can make.
No point taking a vote on it 🤔
This isnt directed at the effects of non alcoholic drinks on the liver. As such its NOT about people having non alcoholic drinks that DONT have alcoholic liver disease. Its about people with alcoholic liver disease supplementing in place of alcohol. If it keeps you off the booze go for it. And again any mans choice is his own. As long as someone is informed than live your life in free will. I dont care if someone with stage 4 cirrhosis wants to drink. Why should I? Its their life. But I do care that it gets promoted on a forum for LIVER health. But you havent beaten the addiction. Have that be umderstood. Swallowing back campral and making everytime you want a drink a nonalcoholic one then you are not over it. While this works for some time and may be a step in the right direction, its not a long term solution to alcoholism. No council would agree it is and as snoutie has pointed out a transplant assessment team would give you the thumbs down if you are using substitutes and cooking with alcohol if your need for a transplant was CAUSED BY ALCOHOL. They would see your chance for recidivism as being high. Which is fair to consider that risk as statistics prove it true over and over. Again this was never directed at people with liver disease who didnt get there from alcohol abuse. Its about people with problems with alcoholism sitting on the edge of returning to it. Would you give cocaine addicts a non opiod powder to snuff up there nose? Or sell heroin addicts a needle full of non opiod substitutes? No damn way. And even if we did would that be they long term solution for a heroin or cocaine addict? No it wouldnt be. We all know that. So why should this be any different? Vaping has become a cigarette substitue with far less chemicals in it that cigarettes. So should we start making commercials to promote them and sell them? Sorry Coconut but being sober for 75 days doesnt make you an expert on the subject of addiction. Especially since you clearly are not free of addiction. Congrats on staying sober. An applause you have well recieved from many here. But when you can say after a couple years that you have control over it by not using drugs to supress the urges physically and substitutes to address the mental aspects of it. Then we will talk. If thats what you need to do now to deal with it than do what you have to do and by all means as it is YOUR battle to fight. But your cavalier approach to other members has your cart far in advance of your horses.
One of those addictions in the US ,they certainly do give people substitute aids for heroin. Suboxin and methadone, I have a Junkie niece, and it drives me nuts, that you can do 4 months in jail, without any drug or drug supplements and the first thing they do ,when she gets out is put her on that stuff. I’ve been addicted to lots of things with the exception of heroin (Thank God) That’s on battle I got to escape from. I agree about one thing, soliciting a product like that in this forum is tasteless. Great discussion though. I can see why the moderator would allow it. Be well😀
Yes they do give methadone brother. But its not a long term solution. Nor should we start advertising . They also give benzos to get people off the withdrawls of alcohol but we wouldnt sell it in supermarkets or use it as a long term solution
The substitutes are made by the Alcohol Industry, I do not intend to put anymore money in their pockets.
I think part of the problem here is that people seem to think that alcohol free drinks have no alcohol in them. At pre transplant clinic we were told that this is not the case and to steer clear of it. We were also advised not to eat food that is prepared with alcohol in it and stay away from the likes of steak and ale pie etc. Now 7 months post transplant I have been told that I can have a tiny drink, but that's only one. Personally after 2 1/2 years not drinking I don't really miss it.
Sorry I forgot to add that I was non alcoholic fatty liver disease.
I was merely pointing out the facts. It is each to their own as I'm very well aware. At no point during my illness and subsequent transplant was I ever told or encouraged not to drink alcohol free beers or wines. So I am responsible for making my own informed and sensible decisions and I will not be made to feel guilty by some members on this forum for my decision to occasionally drink alcohol free lager. I have not had an alcoholic drink for nearly five years and I certainly have no intentions of doing so in the future.
I haven't taken anything personally that you have had to say and I certainly have no problem at all with you explaining your experience, just as I have a right to explain my experience. I am sorry if in any way you felt that I didn't like you talking of your experience, nothing was further from my mind, I was simply stating my experience.