My husband was diagnosed with cirrhosis in July. He’s doing really well and hasn’t drank for 2 months. However, he is drinking no alcohol beer and ‘gin substitute’. I know some people don’t recommend it as it keeps the taste alive but I think if it’s helping him stay clean then he should do what he needs to do to keep up the good work.
However, I notice that some ‘no alcohol’ options actually have a small amount of alcohol in - like beer with 0.5% alcohol. I tried googling it and the advice is confusing...it said that tomato ketchup actually has 0.6% alcohol and it’s fine but other sites I read said that it’s equivalent to a quarter unit of alcohol.
Does anyone know what is correct advice on these drinks? It’s obviously not enough to get drunk on but would it cause someone with cirrhosis further damage? Obviously it’s best to avoid them ideally but if they are not hurting him (and helping him stay off the hard stuff) then I figure he’s fine to carry on....
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Whilst these things are helping him stay off the 'real thing' a word of warning - if he progresses to transplant assessment these are seen as a big no no and potential contraindication to t/p listing. They don't demonstrate the ability/willingness to kick all links to alcohol into touch and can be seen as a potential trigger to relapse if they don't quite fill thecgap of the real thing.
Hello nice to speak to you I was admitted in April for a medical detox and they diagnosed me also with cirrhosis.
For me I enjoy many alcohol free alternatives and my bloods of all come back improved from the start of my recovery so I really don't think that they do cause damage.
They really help curb my cravings and enjoy the taste of them also when I am out with friends I don't feel like the odd one out .
There can be 0.5% of alcohol but that passes so fast through your body is shouldn't cause any damage
I have also researched it as I was concerned and there is just about the same alcohol percentage in them as a banana or brioche bun.
I can say medically but for me they have helped and not caused anymore damage.
I concur with the comments already posted as of 07.30, 25/09. I was diagnosed with cirrhosis Feb 2023 and drink the Zero versions of Leffe Guiness Menabrea and Corona. These have less than 0.05% alcohol. My hepatologist was not concerned as I am well compensated but Katie's advice re TP is important. Watch out for many of the 0.5% low alcohol products as many have a sugar content. I don't touch any of the wines as to me they taste nothing like wine and are not to my taste.
How i understand it is that sometimes the process of producing alcohol free beer is that they make it, then take the alcohol out of it, which can leave traces. Husbands hepatologist said that in his case even these traces could wobble his liver. He had lots of questioning around this when he got sicker in Feb, (wasn't the case that he had been drinking them) because obviously we'd just come thru Christmas and they wanted to know if hed had A/F drinks even. I was surprised how seriously they took it. I would suggest that you ask his consultant as I don't know what stage your partners liver is at and as you say - if its helping him at this stage you don't want to hinder that.
My liver Doctor said no, i did drink heineken 0.0 which is the lowest available.however this has 0.05, i stopped because 1: waste of money, 2: it was more of a prop to full the brain that you are holding a beer.Personally i wouldnt and stopped months ago.
Two months dry is good but a break completly i think is better, two years without one so i dont miss it.
Hi - unfortunately, government guidelines are as follows. Alcohol-free: no more than 0.05%ABV · De-alcoholised: no more than 0.5% ABV · Low alcohol: no more than 1.2% ABV.
So, for example, Guinness Zero is de-alcoholised and contains 0.5%.
As somebody has mentioned elsewhere, if he gets to the liver transplant stage, and continues to drink these beers he is unlikely to be listed.
It is specifically mentioned in the psychological assessment, which is one of the many tests he will undergo.
And he will be subject to regular blood tests, which can detect the smallest amounts of alcohol, even when consumed up to 3 days ago.
My husband has cirrhosis, which ultimately led to liver cancer and is on the waiting list for a liver transplant.
He has been warned not to consume any of these types of drinks, and when he is called for his transplant, if they detect any trace of alcohol, he will be sent home again and removed from the list, there are no second chances!
Hi, Katie is right about transplant listing and zero alcohol. It's the potential link between them not the amount of alcohol they are concerned about and if your husband ever gets so poorly he's assessed for transplant it is one of the many questions they ask. So it depends on your journey if a transplant is in the future. Having said that my hubbie enjoys the 0.5 alcohol beers etc and certainly helped with keeping him off the hard stuff as you say and he turned decompensated to compensated cirrhosis. We have noticed that they are also becoming increasingly popular in pubs now. When we've been abroad they consider anything with 0.5 in as nonalcoholic and lable it so (especially in Italy, possibly all those ripe tomatoes they consume ) Did you know a banana has 0.2! Its the ethanol in ripe fruit that produces alcohol. Our orchard smells like cider this time of the year. So it's a bit of a rabbit hole. Good luck with appointment.
I understand that 0.5% is defined as “Low alcohol”. Our liver team say a definite No to that. They are fine with anything defined “No alcohol” 0.0%. Husband has tried nearly everything and likes Thatchers Zero, Doom Bar Zero, also the Guinness. I have to add though that he has been ruled out for a liver transplant and the advice might have been different otherwise.
The comparison with ketchup is correct but try drinking 4 pints of it!Anything that gets him off alcohol is good but quiting alcohol is the easy part, staying quit is MUCH harder.
The physical addiction is gone in a couple of weeks but the mental addiction is there for a lot longer.
Fake booze, even truly 0% keeps that mental addiction going and very often results in a return to the real thing.
As for 0.5% compare it to dividing a heroin dose by 7 and taking only that, would you still say the addict is off heroin?
He is doing well but best of all is working towards fully quiting and he might need help with that.
I’m a retired drinker (I hate the word alcoholic and all it entails). I’ve tried the various non alcoholic drinks and to be honest I’m not keen on any of them. When I first come out of hospital and wanted a drink daily for a few months I bought some, tried them, and again just didn’t like them. Now over a year and a half sober I no longer get those I want a drink feelings (they do come and go from time to time, but not as intensely like they used to).
I have some in the fridge and they’ve went untouched for months now. I’m comfortable around alcohol and pubs even now, my wife has some like gin, vodka etc. in the house giving as gifts from work mates or birthdays and she doesn’t really drink anyway, we keep them for giving them back as gifts at Xmas ha ha.
It’s a hard slog recovering from alcoholism so I feel for you and your husband, I can’t offer any real advice other than you cannot substitute alcohol, yes at first these non alcoholic drinks may help him, but all they do is make you want the real thing and it’s getting back into that routine of drinking even though they are non alcohol, that’s what I found anyway. For now though, it’s all about staying sober for your husband so whatever helps him is OK? Obviously always speak to a doctor about these things if you can.
I am very very lucky because my drink was always whiskey and even as a heavy heavy drinker, I could take and leave beer or larger as I never really liked it. I do miss whiskey, but I know I can never drink it again or any drink and I’m fine with that, I’ve learned I don’t need alcohol at all and it still angers me internally that I allowed it (whiskey - 3 bottles a week towards the end, waking up to drink it all day etc.) to get a hold of me the way it did and make me dependent on it and also almost robbing my wife and kids of me.
Regarding damage, my own hep doctor said if I was to drink them, to drink the 0-0 ones and not any that contain even trace alcohol. I asked if that would cause further damage and he said not likely because even some food sources contain trace alcohol, but when the liver is damaged it’s all about making sure you cut out any further toxins that can damage it even if minimal.
I wish you and your husband all the best, it does get easier and if he can find a way to not need alcohol in his life full stop, the results can be amazing in terms of your health both physical and mental, this is the best I’ve ever felt mentally and physically although alcohol has damaged my liver and body, I feel I'm getting stronger and stronger every week, good luck and take care.
Thank you for your words. He has been very down but I feel he’s slowly starting to come out the other side and get used to it. Part of me doesn’t want to tell him he now can’t have the lagers he’s having too...I guess we have to see what the appointment is like next week in terms of severity. Good luck to you and keep up the great work!
Thanks and you have to remember he is very early in his recovery. I wanted a whiskey the moment I woke up until the moment I went to bed every day for a few months into my recovery and I can’t tell you how hard that was and how irritating it was because those feelings were so intense.
I eventually substituted my cravings for making food and looking into various foods that would help aid my recovery and I learned so much I was soon making my own turmeric and ginger drinks, even my own coffees and teas, I love coffee and don’t think I could ever go without a coffee a day at least to the point where I’d need counselling or something if I was told I couldn’t have a coffee ha ha. I make a mean non alcoholic mullered wine for Christmas.
We are all different with different needs especially your husband as he has cirrhosis so seemingly harmless non alcoholic drinks could impact things further down the line in terms of transplant options, but right now, again if it’s helping him keep off the actual real alcohol and aiding his recovery, it may be the best option right now?
Again, obviously it’s always best to seek advice from a doctor. I was told I’d be OK with non alcoholic drinks, short and long term, but it was still a risk in terms of maybe me relapsing to the real stuff or further damage so was advised against it.
In reality it’s almost impossible not to put some form of toxins into your body because of our diets, even the most health conscious will be adding toxins to their body, we need sugar and sodium, but it’s also bad for us, it’s about that key word again, moderation.
Your husband is doing great as he is sober and is coping so he should be immensely proud of himself and those first few months are pure hell and something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, but here he is with a serious diagnosis and he’s trying and doing everything he can to live. This is for your husband 👏👏👏
Thank you - he’s not on here but I’ve forwarded your message. He’s not going to much therapy or AA just doing it cold turkey. I think he will appreciate to hear from someone who has gone through the same and your lovely words. 😀
Tell your husband he’s not alone, he’s doing amazing, this is a long hard slog and it’s not easy so he should never feel bad about feeling down about not being able to drink again or having days where it gets tough, it’s natural.
I went to an alcohol rehab/recovery place which I sourced out myself and instigated contact with prior to my hospitalisation (I was kidding myself thinking by going, I was doing something about my drinking) and then afterwards which I felt I really needed and while they are really great for those who need it most, it wasn’t for me after two months or so. We actually mutually ended our sessions on my 100th day sober.
In truth I mostly went because it got me out of the house and it was someone, some other people different to converse with other than putting my wife at worry who I tried and still do nit to talk too much about things with which is just my way of dealing with it all I guess and protecting her. It is good to talk though!
I left that place feeling going there twice a week made my mind think about alcohol even more and that was the last thing I wanted. I’ve looked at making my own non alcoholic whiskey and everything in the past such was my desperation to find an alternative fix, and then the penny drops and it will with your husband that there can never ever be any more alcohol and substituting it with non alcoholic drinks is futile in the end.
But again for now it’s baby steps on the road to a life alcohol free even if that means drinking some non alcohol free drinks in the meantime. I don’t want to sound rude or condescending, but it’s really hard to explain to people who are not/were alcohol dependent (again I hate the word alcoholic/alcoholism) just how much of a vice like grip it can have on you, mentally, physically and emotionally and it’s like a tap that keeps dripping even when you think you’ve turned it off and fixed the leak.
It will likely always be there, I’m strong so I’m more than confident I can say no, but even lately those little urges lurk which I believe is down to the colder weather, darker nights and Xmas approaching. I had the same feelings last year around about this time but got over it quite easily as I’ll do again and again if need be.
I wish your husband all the strength in the world and he is lucky he has you as I am with my wife because this isn’t a battle that can ever be won alone or done without help so you too deserve massive massive credit and in many ways more so because it’s often our partners and siblings who suffer the most.
I never suffered when I was drinking because I was always happy with a whiskey in my hand, and then it almost killed me and that’s the suffering I’ve had to endure, coming to terms with that and coming back from that.
But honestly it all makes you stronger and once you do regain your health, your sobriety, life is so so much better than it ever was, even when I was happy as Larry with my whiskey which I now know was just an illusion, a poor magic trick which I’ve sussed out and won’t be tricked by it ever again.
The great news is that the longer your husband stays sober, the healthier, fitter and better he will become and his liver despite having cirrhosis, will heal enough to become compensated again if he isn’t already compensated where he can live a long and happy life and die with cirrhosis and not of it like many have. It starts with the diet first and foremost, healthy clean eating, zero booze and plain old simple regular exercise like walks, it’s that simple. Again good luck and take care.
If it's helping him and he is of the real stuff that's brilliant because he is doing better than me everyone has there way of coping he is doing no harm bananas have alcohol goodluck
Again just want to echo the transplant advice. If someone has been any kind of drinker, they take a dim view of wanting the " substitutes". They want to see total commitment to a healthy lifestyle to warrant giving you the organ. I was asked specifically if I drank alcohol free wine as substitute during assessment asI had previously been a wine drinker and had been honest about weekend consumption. They had noted that, clearly! So I did avoid all " substitutes"
My liver nurse says zero beer is fine. I drink it, along with a small amount of zero wine weekly, with no problems. I don't agree with the fact that if you drink this, and should need a transplant, you won't be considered. It's not called ZERO beer/ wine for nothing. Alcohol is the problem. Not beer or wine that contains none. Is there such a thing in that you may just enjoy the taste and not necessarily the effects of traditional alcoholic drinks? I don't like getting drunk and never drank for the effect, just the taste and experience. Good job I won't ever want a transplant. Having cirrhosis takes away so much from you. Everything that you enjoy. Don't drink, no sugar, no fat, blah blah blah. You work so hard to live, but is this "living"? I feel a million percent better giving up alcohol, but I am not giving up on living some kind of life, and that includes drinking non alcoholic drinks, regularly. I love beer and I love wine and have got used to the taste of zero. Couldn't drink regular alcoholic drinks now as they taste like nail varnish.
Hello and for sure I too started researching this very subject when my hubby was diagnosed but he went from a very heavy beer drinker to cold turkey as soon as he got the diagnosis and is awaiting a transplant, basically if you ask the doctors they will advise not to drink any alcohol free drinks especially in the case of an alcoholic because it can escalate. And more so if he gets to assessment for transplant it is very much taken into account. Honestly I think it is a shame that our lives seem to have revolved around alcohol and many have written about the fact that a completely zero drink can taste ok, ie alcohol doesn't actually have any flavour, but it is the alcohol that causes the dependency I have never come across anyone who is addicted to something healthy (yes I know someone may point out that there are such addictions as excercise etc) there will be others on this forum considerably more knowledgeable than me but I do think it is important to try and see the future alcohol free it rules and ruins lives and relationships so there isn't any reason in my mind to even consider going back but I can only pray, I can't make that decision for him.
I could always take it or leave it but decided to stop drinking at all when he did , we have found shifting to a low sodium iced tea or fruit juice with water works just fine so much of this is down to individuals but I am mightily grateful that my hubby has managed to remain determined it's the only way in my opinion.
I hope you can find all the proper answers and help you need good luck and best wishes
Yes you are right and it’s so hard. I think the hardest thing is when we go out socially (although we haven’t done a lot of that lately). If he’s drinking non alcohol type lagers - he doesn’t look like the odd one out. Sitting with a J20 when everyone else is glugging Prosecco and wine down - is a constant reminder you are the odd one out. I’ve been joining him in not drinking in such situations so he doesn’t feel alone. But it does feel strange and you can’t ask everyone around you to stop drinking as that would be unfair on them. It’s quite a minefield.
My father went through all of these non alcoholic drinks, as you say it keeps the taste alive and it wasn't long before he was drinking secretly again and then back to full blown drinking, he drank himself to death, good riddance, he was an absusive alcoholic, drank and gambled with family money etc.
After growing up with an abusive alcoholic I never touched alcohol and still ended up with liver cirrhosis and ultimately liver failure and transplant.
At one stage in my life with cirrhosis I tried some of these non alcoholic drinks, but found they were too high in salt and other substitutes, fortunately I didn't get addicted to them.
I have never heard that ketchup has alcohol in it, but if it does I wouldn't use it, I would substitute it, you have to go right down to the very ground level and cut anything out that might be a temptation, for example cottage pie might seem innocent, but sometimes the meat is stewed in alcohol, or the sauce is alcoholic, you really have to read the label on foods and research the brand because not everything is on the label.
A man who was being assessed for Transplant was in the next bed to me after I had just had my TP. He asked me loads of questions about the procedure and mentioned how worried he was about not getting on the list. He was in having a biopsy. They assessed him while he was in having the biopsy. He did not get on the list because he told them he drank non alcoholic beer. I know because I was on the other side of his closed curtain when they told him. He was to refrain from drinking anything that even resembled an alcoholic drink for a further 6 months before he will be reassessed. Drinking non alcoholic beer didn’t convince them he was serious about giving up alcohol for good and this was a risk of a relapse. Now this was devastating news for him as he didn’t know he wasn’t supposed to drink them either. He was trying to enjoy his usual lifestyle down the pub with his friends while also making necessary adjustments regarding his alcohol intake but this is how serious the decision makers are when they are entrusted with the provision of a donor organ to potential recipients. These organs will only go to those who are serious about making the necessary commitment to looking after this amazing gift of life. Although this may be helping him refrain from drinking, he needs to get to grips with the fact that that lifestyle has had severe effects on his health and he must begin to move away from things that may trigger a relapse and therefor further put his health at risk. People must be abstinent for 6 months at least before being eligible to be assessed for TP. Then must survive long enough on the list to receive it. It was almost a year waiting before I received mine and it was literally just in time as I could see in my face and feel that life was beginning to leave me. Tell him to give himself the best possible chance. Chuck even the fake stuff in the bin.
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