Anyone have normal blood tests and ultrasounds?

[linzenilss22]

Hello anyone with alcoholic cirrhosis have normal bloods and ultrasounds before diagnosis? What test did you have that found it? What led you to the tests symptoms? I'm still frea king out that I have alcoholic liver diseasr. I just can't put it out of my mind!!

[susieanna]

Not in reference to me; but blood tests were not normal before diagnosis; however initial symptons were nausea/ sickness for a long time; problems with platelets was seen; but it actually took a very long time before diagnosis confirmed; changed specialists due to lack of faith in first one ; and the minute new specialist was seen; he was almost certain it was cirrhosis within a few mins re spider veins; fibroscan was then done along with loads of more blood tests and it was confirmed.

Have you had all the blood tests possible?? scans etc?? Seen a specialist??

If all is normal; then i doubt you have it. If you are still concerned seek second opinion.

best regards.

[linzenilss22 in reply to susieanna]

Hi thanks for the response.Yes I had 3 rounds of lfts all normal except elevated bilirubin. Platletes normal also. 2 ultrasounds all fine. I have read many people where they have cirrhosis and blood tests and ultrasounds are normal and it was missed. Im worried I have nausea everyday pallor dark sunken eyes. Right quadrant pain and fatigue. Just scared I overdid the drinking!!

[Bolly in reply to linzenilss22]

Of course you overdid the drinking! Drinking heavily for 3 years is overdoing the drinking n'est ce pas. Now you are so worried you are making yourself sick with worry.

Presume you have stopped drinking? Give your liver and your body lots of TLC and it will reward you with feeling better. Turn your life around with a good diet, no sugar, low salt, fresh food, exercise and NO stress. Find something in your life to turn your thoughts outward instead of inward, ... And enjoy. 😀

[linzenilss22 in reply to Bolly]

I just don't know what else would cause these symptoms. Or why bilirubin would be elevated

[Ibangyourface in reply to linzenilss22]

Wait so what were you diagnosed with. What were your bilirubin levels

[miaperson]

Hi...there is only one way to determine the condition of the liver and that is liver biopsy...tests/scans may point one way or another and give an indication that all is either well or otherwise but they are not a substitute for biopsy...my own experience with a leading liver specialist left me with the knowledge that they do not necessarily listen to the patient...I had been seeing the specialist for 18 months and he told me all was well and was dismissive of any of my concerns...but I was very ill and it was only when I learned about spider naevi and said to him "well,what are these ?", seconds after he told me "nothing is wrong" ,that I was given a biopsy the very next day...the result was that I had cirrhosis...after this he avoided me and when I asked questions was told to "go away as nothing can be done...come back in a year"...I had not been drinking for 2 years by this time and the liver function tests were only slightly out on a couple of enzymes...that was 20 years ago...IF you are not happy with the consultant then ask for another opinion...you are entitled to it...I know it can seem very awkward to question the consultant but if you feel he isn`t listening then make a stand...there are 6 grades of cirrhosis and it isn`t a death sentence as long as you live healthily...I am more "well" ,healthy and active now than I ever was when drinking/drugging over a 15 year period...good luck and remember that the BEST step you can take is to cease drinking alcohol...you`ve already taken that decision.

Steve.

[Hidden in reply to miaperson]

"there is only one way to determine the condition of the liver and that is liver biopsy.." this is incorrect im afraid , its known as the "flawed gold standard" the chances of a false negative can be as high as 30% because the biopsy only takes a 1/50000th of the liver and can get it from a healthier part in error. Relatively new scans such as the Fibroscan and MRE are preferred by growing numbers of Hep docs, because it measures a 1/500th of the Liver and it quick and painless and has a negative predictive value of around 95%. MRE does the whole Liver, both these scans are pretty much data in real time.

[miaperson in reply to Hidden]

I confess to basing my answer on my last biopsy taken 10 years ago...my last biopsy was directed on a specific site via ultrasound and was the most successful method to date..perhaps there are other methods now and for this I would have been truly thankful..the biopsy I mention took 20 minutes with 3 insertions of the needle through top right while laying on my back...it was extremely painful.

It might be worth reading this link...(best I`ve found so far)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

However,I guess the sole concern is whether anyone is successfully treated and I would wish anybody undergoing any treatment to do so with the least distress and pain possible.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Chris884 in reply to miaperson]

I have a question. I had hep c 10 years ago. Cured. Lost insurance. At beginning never done biopsy. Because doctor said ct showed normal liver. And all blood work back in normal range. Now I work 12-15 hours on my feet and have noticed when I don’t drink enough water I get pitting edema. So I freak out and just go to emergency room thinking cirrhosis. Well they did all liver functions test and they were all normal. Have had several since all show normal. If that swelling I have every now and then was cirrhosis symptoms something like albumin would be off right?cant get right answers. I have heard when symptoms start blood work would be off. Thanks

[miaperson in reply to Chris884]

Hi Chris...I must first off say that although I still have cirrhosis I have not had any problems for a long time now and haven`t really given much thought to it in as long...so my reply to you has me trying to recall exactly what the processes are...and it is hard to remember...I don`t drink alcohol whatsoever now and don`t use drugs and life is much healthier than I used to live it- so, as far as I remember, if a liver is damaged then it will show in a blood test but even when there are anomalous results,this does not necessarily mean there is damage...all my knowledge is based on older methods that doctors etc used and I imagine there is a huge amount of "new" knowledge I am unaware of - you say your blood tests show all is well and so I would concentrate on the fact that this shows your liver is functioning as it ought to...I don`t know what to say regards the drinking water issue so guess I am not much help to you...just try not to worry or pre-judge the situation and go seek some advice from a doctor who knows about the liver (many doctors do not know a great deal about the liver and so it is important a doctor with the right knowledge gives you an assessment) - I`m sorry not to be of much help...but if you are healthy and feel good then don`t stress out and certainly do not jump to conclusions...on the other hand don`t be fobbed off by people who don`t have the right knowledge...good luck to you...Steve.

[Chris884 in reply to miaperson]

When you had any symptoms was your blood work off

[miaperson in reply to Chris884]

Yes, and I also had spider-naevi (spelling ?) over my body - I eventually had interferon combination treatment in 2001 which cleared the Hepatitis C from my body...I was first diagnosed in 1994 so all my knowledge is years old and much of it possibly out of date as I`m sure there are newer treatments and methods followed...when cirrhosis was originally diagnosed I was told I might have 5 years left but I have lived a normal active life for 25 since then - hope this helps.

[Chris884 in reply to miaperson]

I have had labs in the past and the latest one ast 34 alt is 21 both normal. But the blood work I have had before this one ast was 21 alt was 16. Normal als. Does that mean something is going on. They are normal every time but those two test were a couple of years apart. Why is ast higher than alt

[miaperson in reply to Chris884]

To be honest I don`t remember what my results ever were nor which liver enzymes etc were the more "important" ones - I was told however that liver results could fluctuate throughout a day and what could show as abnormal could well be normal at another point during the day - I think that it is only if the results of any particular enzyme etc is wildly out of normal and consistently so that there would be cause for further investigation - maybe if you post a question in the forum about this somebody with more knowledge than I have can give you an answer I am not able to give...again,I`m sorry to not be of much help with your query.

[scottyboy40]

As Steve has already said, I couldn't agree more. Make the doctor give you a straight answer.

You deserve that much. If you cirrhosis m8, you can still decide how you want to live. 26 year's of drug abuse, but I havn't felt as good than I do now. All the best.

[linzenilss22 in reply to scottyboy40]

The doctors tell me not to worry about my liver. I told her my concerns and even went to the hospital where they did ultrasound and and bloods. Bilirubin 1.9. When it was repeated 2 weeks later it was 1.3 direct .2 and they didn't seem concerned. My cbc is also normal ast 12 at 11 and alp under normal

[scottyboy40]

Hi there i'm looking at my latest blood results and i cant understand your ranges.The reference range ive got for my bilirubin 0-20 umol/L and the result is 24(H) so it is a bit high.But i still started the harvoni and ribav.My Alka Phosphatase,Alka Transaminase

are also high.171(H) and 50(H) respectivly.quite high yeah.

Don't worry about it and try and do as many positives as you can to improve your

chances of a happy and meaningful life.

Its not all doom and gloom sweetie,you can still improve your qaulity of life i hope.

hope this helps a bit.x

"No Surrender"

[MisterX in reply to scottyboy40]

Look like US numbers to me.

[linzenilss22]

Yes US numbers. I realize it's British liver trust but I think this site is very helpful. Do you know if high indirect or direct has to do with the liver? I've read conflicting reports.

[MisterX in reply to linzenilss22]

Bilirubin overall is indicative (but not alone) of liver function.

Obviously as with all these indicators in the context of a working symptom the results can vary day to day as your body and liver go about their daily work, so isolated increases have to be treated with caution and within the overall context

Total bilirubin is the important measure. Direct/Indirect can sometimes indicate where to look for a problem if they are out. Some people have higher levels of bilirubin as their version of normal - that's normally inconsequential although if previously bilirubin was normal you may wish to discuss with your doctor.

It looks like you're in a difficult position - your bloods seem to be saying your liver is ok but you have a couple of possible symptoms (although right upper quadrant pain is more often gallbladder related than liver related).

It's quite a path from drinking to liver disease. You may well have a fatty liver - which as long as you don't drink and try and eat healthily and exercise should reverse itself. With fatty liver you want to stop drinking and also make sure you don't sustain the fat with an unhealthy lifestyle - some people don't realise they were on the way to fatty liver based on diet and exercise before drinking speeded it up.

It may well be that a reduction in liver fat fat will resolve the symptoms.

Keep your chin up.

Cheers.

[linzenilss22 in reply to MisterX]

Thanks misterx. I had a hidascan and my gallbladder is normal. I have read stories where people have cirrosis with normal labs and was never found on an ultrasound. Bilirubin normal in US is 1.2 mine was 1.9 went down to 1.3. I just feel awful fatigue pallor dark sunken in bloodshot eyes. Dry mouth and nausea. Platelets are 250 so that's good

[MisterX in reply to linzenilss22]

Hi,

Yes it can happen sometimes.

The thing is is that if the of the symptoms you have the bilirubin and fatigue would the be the ones with the best link to possible liver issues, but they could be transitory or the effect of something else.

If you really think any liver issues you have could be the result of drinking then basically proceeding as if you might have fatty liver would be your best course of action in any event as it's your best chance of reversing any damage done. Still worth having a doctor keep an eye on the bilirubin over time though.

The other alternative, depending on your insurance and doctor is to consider asking them if they think its a good idea to order a CT scan to see what that shows up.

Best regards.

[Hidden in reply to linzenilss22]

Anything that slows bile flow can cause bumps in Bilirubin. Pancreas, stomach, colon, gallbladder, if these become inflamed they can certainly cause small bumps in Bilirubin, gall bladder can make you yellow!

Bilirubin comes as ;

Direct: This has been processed by the Liver, if its high it suggests its not clearing out of the Liver very well, so this hints at the Liver having issues, i.e badly damaged ducts stopping flow out of the Liver

Indirect: This is before the Liver processes it, again, high numbers "could" mean that the Liver isn't processing it very well.

In short, there are so many variables regarding bloods, that's why doctors spend about 10 years training. A small raise in Bilirubin in the absence of any inflammation markers or anything else wont make the doctor hit the panic button.

Also an ultrasound is NOT useless as some web sites will tell you. Its actually pretty good at ruling out F4 Fibrosis, its about 84% accurate, F3 is about 75%, it gets pretty hazy at F2 at around 65% and F1 its pretty difficult, 55%, but a good experienced technician can sometimes grade Fibrosis.

I haven't had a drink since July 2014, I got ill after a couple of heavy nights. I had the dry mouth, yellow stools, nausea and blood shot eyes and endless , endless fatigue, I thought I was dying. It lasted for 6 months and has taken a year to feel good again! a couple of weeks after my binge, my bloods:

ALP 45

ALT 23

GGT 23

Bili 19umol (0-21)

2 months later

ALP 55

ALT 20

GGT 19

bili 13umol (0-21)

As you can see early on my Bili was in range, but near the top. I suspect I had some Pancreatitis and maybe some mild Alcoholic Hepatitis. I'm sure the bloods would have been worse early on, but it took me a few weeks to feel well enough to get to the Doctors just around the corner from me!

I have had 3 X bloods, ultrasound and Fibroscan, all clear. If I keep my clean living I should be fine.

Last word......I was watching a documentary recently about the Liver, a Hep doctor gave a lecture. He clearly said "I don't really care how much F1 or F2 someone has, because if the cause of the irritation is removed, they will be back to normal in a couple of years."

So even if you did have "some" damage as long as you haven't got to F3 you can recover and live a normal life span. Remember they pull shiny new looking Livers out of 100 year people when they die and are autopsied. Its designed to repair, it wants to repair!

[linzenilss22 in reply to Hidden]

Yes I have an occasional drink here and there but the everyday heavy drinking has stopped! It's been almost a year with the dry mouth fatigue bloodshot eyes I to had yellow stools ND vomiting for a day

[Ibangyourface in reply to Hidden]

Thank you so much for this post it really puts a lot of tests and inidcators in to good perspective. I love how its evident that you have done a lot of quality and in depth research to find accurate and reliable answers to important questions. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[scottyboy40]

Mister X seems to be really informed. Unfortunately my English is not that good and I still struggle putting my words down. But when people like mister X respond to your posts,i would listen lntently. He or she know what their talking about.

[MisterX in reply to scottyboy40]

That's very kind of you to say but in all honesty there is a huge amount I don't know and many people here who have written before from whom I've learned a huge amount. This is a great forum for picking up information and for getting an idea of what things mean and what questions to ask but obviously not a substitute for a doctor.

Cheers.

[scottyboy40 in reply to MisterX]

Yeah, I've learned a lot of interesting things to do with liver disease. A lot more than what the system tells you. I've often wondered why is that. Cheer's Mister X.