I thought I'd ask this as I may not be the only person who isn't quite sure about this.
I've been looking at some other plans outside of JuJu's plan and some HM plans as I hope, one day, to get there and lots of them mention 5k pace or 10k pace etc. and I, pretty much, only seem to have one pace and that depends on the day too.
All my runs are slow, albeit 5K or more and with training I get bit faster but it's an overall faster not a 5K faster etc.
I feel like a clockwork toy that gets wound up and I pretty much keep going at that pace until I run out of steam.
I don't seem to have a reserve of energy to be spent at various speeds, but more a self maintaining rhythm which balances what my body can provide with what I need.
Not sure if I'm making sense - I know some people go more quickly over 5K than they would over 10K but I don't seem to be one of them.
Should this be something that I'm working on?
Thanks for all advice
BIT
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This is something I really struggled with too. All through couch to 5k, I was convinced that I only had one steady pace and I couldn’t slow down any more. When I started the magic plan, I found I was wrong! I wouldn’t suggest this but running with sore legs from the gym is one way to discover you can actually go more slowly! That was when it clicked for me!
I see you’re in France so I don’t know if the Nike Run Club app works in the same way as here, but that’s great for helping you learn to run with different paces (which is really all about running with different efforts). It’s worth preserving with. Just know you’re not alone in finding running more slowly (or with less effort) more difficult than speeding up!
Thank you - I'm not sure it's the slowing down that is the problem in as much as I can run 10k at this pace (well I could previously, before my op and I'm getting there again), it's more that I can't seem to run 5k at a greater speed. Not sure I'm making sense. I previously got up to 18k, but it was still at this pace.
Right-I get you now. If you can run a full 10k, you’re asking why can you “only” run 5k at the same pace. I wonder (and I could be wrong here) if it’s a misunderstanding of what those terms mean. I’d use my “5k pace” to be be pace I could run a fast 5k at, and not the pace I’d just go for a comfortable 5k run at. My best 5k time is about five minutes faster than my usual plod! If you’re running both your 5k and 10k at a comfortable pace, I can see why you wouldn’t necessarily be any faster over 10k. The effort you’d use for a 5k run would be greater than a 10k which might be a good way to think about it. Again, Nike Run Club is really good on this. Maybe you need to think about the purpose of your runs-are they supposed to be at an easy pace or are you setting out to set a new PB? I really hope that makes sense!
Have you ever tried any speed specific training if that’s important to you? There are some great speed runs on Nike Run Club that help you to get used to pushing yourself beyond the comfortable. I’ve found doing more strength work to come back from injury has increased my pace.
The thing to remember is even if you’re training for speed, most of your runs should be at that lovely, comfortable pace that it sounds like you’ve found. If you’re still coming back from your op, it might be worth making sure you’re fully recovered and ready for those faster runs before getting started.
I will look at the NRC runs - I don't have a fast 5K pace just a 5K pace, My comfortable run is my fast 5k pace and my slow 5K pace! I am getting stronger as I do more runs, but it all gets quicker, my comfortable pace get quicker.
I will check out those speed runs, it's not so much that it's important to me, more that I wasn't sure if I need different speeds to be able to effectively use those programmes
My op was 6 months ago, I made sure I was fully recovered before starting C25k again and got the go ahead from my doctor.
I should also have said, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with always running at a comfortable pace if that’s what brings you joy. That’s the best thing about running-we can all find our own way to run in a way we love. I only mention the speed work because you’re asking about getting faster. I also happen to love belting along a lane like a child in a playground!!
I’m also a pretty standard pace runner, in that my 10k runs are generally twice the time of my 5k runs and my 10 mile and half marathon times have also been at roughly the same pace. I like the way Nike Run Club app describes it, though, in terms of effort out of 10. It’s a while since I did one, but, from memory, warm up is 3, easy pace is 4, 10k pace is 5-6, 5k pace is 7-8 and mile pace is 9 or something like that. Increased effort does mean I go faster. If you do want to try to increase pace when you’re fully fit, I would suggest intervals or Fartlek, as you consciously change pace during the run and you couldn’t keep up the faster pace for the whole run!
I hadn't a clue what my pace was until I did a couple of NRC speed runs and coach explained it's about perceived effort, I can run 1 minute at mile pace which is almost flat out, perceived effort 9/10 and couldn't keep it up much longer,I don't think it matters so much though unless you are trying to increase speed or win races, but I do like the fun if running faster
I think I'm a bit like you - I run 5k and 10k at the same pace. I am a slow plodder and I don't think my speed will ever change. Thinking in terms of cars, I think I might only have one gear!
That's what I'm worried about, well worried is too strong a word, but it would be good to get 5K out the way a bit quicker than my slow plod if, in theory, I can spend energy to go up to 10K, why can't I use that energy in doing 5K if you know what I mean
I wonder whether it might be something to do with fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibres. It is my understanding that the fast twitch fibres are the ones we use for speed and the slow twitch for stamina. Maybe it's a lack of the fast twitch fibres that leads to difficulties in increasing running speed?
Coincidentally I nearly posted almost the same query today! I just completed the intervals run on week 2 of the NRC HM plan and it wanted me to run intervals at 5k pace and 1 mile pace. I understand the bit about relative effort, but I find “real” (pace) numbers easier work with. I’m still not sure what I “should” be aiming for pace-wise if I want to improve my speed. I assume that the 5k pace should be faster than my usual 5k pace ( otherwise what’s the point… ?), so I then wonder how much faster I should target (10%/20% faster?) and whether I should be able to maintain this pace even on the last interval? Or does it mean that if I can do this, I haven’t been working hard enough 🤔😂 Currently my normal 5k pace and normal 10k pace are broadly the same, mainly because I’m worried that if I try to run faster on a 5k, I’ll run out of steam before I hit the distance.
I did that run yesterday. My warm up and recovery parts were really slow, breathing easy, the mile pace I really went for it but knowing I had to run a minute so not flat out. For 5k I can comfortably run 5k in about 45 minutes so that's about 9mpk so I aimed for between 8 and 8.30, that was ok, for the 10k pace I ran between 10 and 10.30 mpk which would be about 1 hour 40 mins for a whole 10k which I have done but only once in less time. Those I know are very slow but it might help you work out how fast you need to go, or it might totally confuse you in which case feel free to ignore 😃
Thanks Sola, it was useful to see the pace uplift you were aiming for.
Today’s intervals run was the second speed run of week2- a longer interval run and I enjoyed it even though it was tough! Only 2 paces this time - 5k and 1mile, so less to think about 😂😁
I’ve got that run coming up again this week. This isn’t my first time through the programme-that was last year and when I discovered I loved the faster runs! I don’t claim to be any sort of expert here-this is just my experience. The more of these runs you do, the better you’ll get at finding a 7/10 effort vs a 9/10 effort. It’s great to look at the stats after and find you’ve managed to actually nail the different paces. The aim is to run the last interval at the same pace as your first (if you’re aiming for the same speed obviously!). That can be hard! Again, it comes with practice,
One of the speed runs has descriptions associated with each pace which I found helpful. Unhelpfully, I can’t remember which one it is but I’ll do some hunting and see if I can find it! There’s a good article here about starting interval runs. Following the guided runs on Nike Run Club means the suggested run timings aren’t relevant but I found the descriptions of what the pace efforts should feel like helpful.
I know exactly what you mean about your interval 5k pace being faster than you could run a full 5k…I think it’s most likely similar for all of us! I think there’s a difference in going out for a 5k comfortable run and a 5k run where you’re running with a “5k effort” for 5k. When you say your “normal 5k/10k pace”, does that mean running those distances comfortably or going for your best time?
Remember that when you’re doing speed runs, on some intervals you’re asked to run faster than your 5k effort pace (mile pace, best pace, celebration pace!), and you’re also doing longer, comfortable runs to build up your aerobic base so you don’t need to run those 5k intervals faster than the 7/10 effort it asks you to. You’ll also do tempo runs where you hold a slightly uncomfortable pace for longer than you’re used to. Trust the training and don’t be tempted to push harder than you are asked to! That’s often hard!!
I know that’s not answered your question about numbers. Perhaps after a few tries at the interval runs, you’ll have an idea of what a 7/10 effort looks like in terms of pace and you could use that as a target for your intervals? Or if you’ve got a recent 5k time where you put in some effort (as opposed to a comfortable, easy paced run) you could use that? It’s hard running like that because so many different factors can affect how quick you are on a given day that running by effort is the best for me.
Thanks for the link and your comments. My 5k and 10k pace are roughly the same when I’m running them comfortably (I’ve only done 1 10k so far, so not much data to go on!). Suggests I could run a faster 5k if I set my mind to it and don’t head out at a mad pace!
Today my 5k pace and Mile pace were both approximately 10% faster than my normal comfortable pace for those distances. As for perceived effort - as I tired, the final increments felt a lot harder than the earlier ones, but were completed at a slower pace. I guess this implies I put too much effort into the early increments. I had also completed a 2k trail run before starting the intervals session - the weather was so good I wanted to do a bit of extra running- so I’m sure that took something out of my legs too.
There will be plenty more opportunities for me to try this out I’m sure!
I also second the Nike Run Club app - this has helped me figure out pacing and I am a big fan of Coach Bennett who said our runs should be like a mixtape - not doing the same thing over and over again and running at the same pace and/or same distance all the time. From the speed runs, they describe 5k pace as 7/10 (10 being all out fastest speed you could give) and 10k pace being 5/10 or 6/10 effort. He emphasises that effort is not fixed by the numbers on our watches or whatever (in other words, not a given pace). If you didn’t get enough sleep the night before then your 5k pace would translate to a different 7/10 effort than the 7/10 effort you would be able to give if you had slept very well the night before. The speed runs have also opened my eyes and I now try and do at least one a week - whether it is an interval, tempo, or fartlek run.
I’ve been running for nearly 3 years now, and have been through C25K and the Magic Plan (both types) twice. I’m a slow runner, and just plodded through the programmes at my own happy pace. 🏃🏻♀️🐌
Since last Autumn, I worked through the NRC 10K plan…and am now on week 4 of the HM Plan. It’s only *now* that I’m beginning to get the hang of the different pace/efforts required.
What’s really important is that 3 of the 5 runs in the week are run at *your* recovery pace…our old friend the ‘conversational’ pace…the one where you just feel you can go on for ever. The other 2 are the speed runs.
Having run one this morning here’s what I remember…5K pace is about 7/10, ‘Strong and Controlled’…1 mile is 9/10, ‘Fast and Fun’…running it this morning, I found it easy to differentiate between the speeds I was running, but I can safely say that I probably wouldn’t run a whole 5k at the 5K pace I used this morning (if that makes sense).
It takes practice to get used to changing and using the different speeds…don’t worry too much about technical details, just go for the feel of it. I would suggest you find “First Fartlek” on NRC guided runs, it will get you used to changing gears. Oh and you haven’t lived until you run a hill interval! 🤣
I run like a bloody metronome so the whole issue of "regulating" Pace is a moot point for me :)I guess if one can, it adds an interesting addition to planning a run, but basically it's not something I've ever really thought I "should" be capable of doing
I trained very seriously for my second annual Army Ten Mile event a few years ago - really wanted to improve my time (heavy betting and inter-Force rivalry at work lol) and as far as I remember I only shaved about three minutes off the previous year lol.
I can tell you within a couple of minutes eother way what my times will be over a given distance, which disgruntled me for a while but then I realised if I didn't have to "worry" about my time I could focus on just enjoying the surroundings 🙂
I wholeheartedly agree I-J! My running is for enjoyment too!
But I also agree about NRC and their speed runs. They’re great fun, and whilst I know I couldn’t run the mile, 5k and 10k paces over those distances in reality, I am consistent in my “gear changing”, and look forward to it, rather than dread it like before I discovered NRC a few years ago.
You’ll find that too backintime . Have a go and see how you get on. And have fun! 😀
So you can effectively run a 10k at your 5k pace. If you look at it that way round it sounds better - I wish I could!As others have said theres some good apps. But tbh you dont need them. If you want to improve your pace you need to do speed work.
Assuming you run 3 times a week make one of them speed day. You dont need to do a full 5k on these days, but you do need to focus on pace. There is a great variety for you to try. Pick your favourites and mix it up how you want on these days.
Options:
1) Intervals. Run fast then slow to timed intervals. You could use c25k wk1 for this. Sprint during run sections and run slow during walk sections. You could build up through the weeks, or go your own way.
2) Fartlek. Similar to above, but just freestyle. Go out for a run and when your warmed up set yourself a target to sprint to i.e. next lampost, post box, green car, end of the road, etc. That way you ae going by feel. No need to do this over 5k. 2k is ample. Again you can build up over the weeks if you want.
3) increasing intervals. Run 5k but aim to run each 1k section 5 seconds faster than the last. You will need to start slower for this to work. You will improve the more you do. This is great for training you to finish strong and know you've got more in the tank for the latter stages of a run.
4) hill runs. Find a hill and run up it as far and fast as you can. Jog down slowly. Rinse repeat. Start small and by thet I mean not too many repeats. Just once if thats enough. You have options to build i.e. more repeats, steep hill, longer hill, etc.
5) fast pace. Goal set a realistic time to run 5k for you. Wotk out what your pace needs to be per km i.e 30min 5k = 6min 1k. Go for it. If you make it great, improve your goal next time, if not keep working until you do. It is all training. I eft tis one to last as all the others will be good to lead to this.
6) cross training. I found that by also cycling regularly, I just became a faster runner. Other options for cross training are out there such as swimming. Find the one that works for you.
Im sure there are more that others could offer but these are enough to get you where you want to be. Consistency is key. Have fun!
Thank you, I did a bit of Fartlek (I guess that's the right term) with the zombies, run! app where you get chased occasionally by a Zombie and have to outrun them, which was fun until it started to get a bit dark and, well, not so good then
Makes perfect sense to me. I have two paces. very slow and slightly less slow towards the end of my run. When I first graduated, I did some speed intervals (not very speedily) but it did mean my overall pace increased after many longer runs. After a few breaks in my running. I'm back to being super slow and don't follow plans, but if they work for you, then maybe keep tracking and see if you actually do run at the same pace on shorter and longer runs - it probably does vary a bit. I suppose that there might be an injury risk if you feel you have to stick at a faster pace if you're struggling with it though.
Just some thought from a very inexpert slow runner!
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just a 5K pace, My comfortable run is my fast 5k pace and my slow 5K pace! I am getting stronger as I do more runs, but it all gets quicker, my comfortable pace get quicker.
Advice please - JuJu's magic 10k, and improving pace safely
10K run at a steady pace
5K to 10K. Does this sound about right?
W10 R1 5k to 10k
5k to 10k progression
