Heart rate Zone training

[Curlygurly2]

I know a few of you have tried this, and while I have noted some benefits, I am finding certain negative consequences as well now....my sprint pace has gone from around 6:30 per KM, to over 8 mins, and at that I can't even get my HR up into Z4, and my easy running has gone from something starting with a 7 to way over 9 mins...

I've been on it for five months now...very tempted to give it up and just go back to doing my own thing...

Any explanations for why it should be going like this? Is it normal to go through a patch like this? Any encouragement you can give me at all? Yes I've checked the zones several times...

[SlowLoris]

Normally if someone had a drop in performance I’d think they were just a bit under the weather but you’ve been on a plan for 5 months. I believe in HR training but it has to be personalised. Have you set up your resting and Max heart rates? It should be fairly easy to get up into zone 4.

What does your Training Status on Garmin Connect say?

Likewise the 7-Day Training Load should also show how hard you’re working.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Yes, I've set up the zones, I set it for % of max. It doesn't invite me to add resting HR. It was easy to get to Z4 for the first some weeks, now it's almost impossible.

Status says productive or maintaining (green or yellow), training load optimal.

The plan follows the 80/20 ratio, it's a Garmin plan.

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

I prefer to use HRR. You can input your resting HR in your settings. How did you find your max HR?

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

What is HRR?

Garmin tells me my MAX in settings

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

Ah, Heart rate Reserve - I tried that too, all my zones went up more, I found that even harder to get the HR up.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

You don't enter resting HR for % of max, you do for HRR

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

When Garmin just did navigation the HRM leaders were Polar and Cardiosport. Polar are still going strong. Their website still has lots of useful info including a guide on how to field test your HRMax. polar.com/blog/calculate-ma...

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

Biggest problem is that Garmin, like all other brands, have no idea what your MaxHR is. There are a number of formulas that give an average for age but the deviation from the average is huge. Basically it’s like everyone in the world buying the clothing size of the average sized person. Not much use for most of us.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Garmin's idea of my max HR tallies quite well with what I see on my runs. I think it's based on actual data from my runs. (probably!!)

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

Garmin uses the formula. You won’t have been anywhere near your MaxHR unless you’ve pushed yourself to the limit. Hill repeats normally do it.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Which formula? Take your age from 220? If that's how they do it my zones ought to be much much lower...

I've checked on fast runs, my HR at Parkrun for instance has reached 177, Garmin gives me 167 - 185 for Z5, seems near enough don't you think?

My point it though that I can no longer get into Z4 when I could a few weeks ago, seems like going backwards..

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

What’s the highest rate you’ve ever measured, how hard were you working at the time and how does it compare to the Garmin figure.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

I'd say that 177 seems fairly consistent for fast runs/sprint fishes at PR, without going back over every run..

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

Your max is somewhere above that then. Where does Garmin put it?

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

185

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

Oh, and I was able to get into that zone easily a few weeks ago, and run faster too...seems this plan is making me go backwards...

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

Hmm.....I’m stumped then. My fastest 5K PB wouldn’t push me into zone 5, it’s a long distance. A sprint finish might though. Normally hills and sprints get me there. Perhaps you need a rest?

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Yes, could be... but I just had two weeks off following a nasty fall..I'm thinking maybe fuelling, maybe I'm not eating enough before I go out? I'll try going back to my porridge next run, see how that goes...

I did speak to @Tasha, she loves zone training and she said I would get some speed back eventually, but I've been reading the 80/20 book, it should be having some effect after say, 7 or 8 weeks, not getting worse, it's a bit demoralising...

[SlowLoris in reply to Curlygurly2]

Don’t be demoralised. You’ll work it out soon enough.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Thank you! Your thoughtful input has helped xx

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Hi there SlowLoris, just thought I'd let you know as you gave so much input, my watch has developed a fault, I've done a reset and it seems to be better now. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Katnap Graduate10 in reply to SlowLoris]

Less stress and a good night's sleep help enormously!

[SlowLoris in reply to Katnap]

Both a bit elusive at the moment!

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Katnap]

Those are some of the benefits of this training, I sleep better than I ever have in my whole life, and I can't say I'm stressed at all, bored with sitting at home but not stressed!

[Speedy60 Graduate10]

runnersworld.com/uk/trainin... is a good article for setting your max heart rate.

I think sometimes you need to mix things up a bit. Hills are great training.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Speedy60]

This plan does have different sessions, easy runs, threshold runs, intervals, it also suggests hills now and then, problem is Cambridge is pancake flat!!

[Speedy60 Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

Ah, bit of a problem. Any bridges or steps you could try?I'm lucky in that I can run quite long distances at sea level or tackle some quite challenging hills. The only problem is, it's too easy to avoid the hills.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Speedy60]

Only teeny weeny hills!

[Speedy60 Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

Intervals for you then. 💪😉

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Speedy60]

Yep, do those twice a week...those are when I can't get my HR or my pace up...

[nowster Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

There are hills if you want them. Three laps of Chesterton Road, Castle Street and Victoria Road via Mitcham's Corner, perhaps? 😉

Or from the ring road to Madingley and back?

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to nowster]

I've done those! Those are not hills lol!

In summer I live in France, and clock up about 10,000 meters of elevation over 5 or so months. Gog Magog is hilly I've heard but a long way away...

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

Do you know, I think you may have hit on something..the hills and the heat where I run in France get my HR up easily, I've always found Cambridge difficult in a different way, it's a bit relentless...

[Teresafaith Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

Wish I lived in Cambridge - can't avoid the hills here in Cornwall!

[RunBrianRun Graduate10]

I tried it a couple of years back and gave up at exactly the same point you are. I noticed that my fast pace had taken a nose dive. I freaked out and just stopped there and then as pace is my thing.

Looking back, I think the mistake I made was ignoring the 80/20 rule. I went 100% MAF but what I should have done is kept one session a week for hiit.

I didn’t want to carry on and see if it was just a dip and things would improve, so I just quit and went back to my usual routine.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to RunBrianRun]

Thank you Brian, it's interesting to know it's not just me...my plan has another 8 weeks to go, so I think I'll follow it through and see where it ends up. It follows the 80/20 rule closely, and has 2 short easy runs, one long easy run, and two interval/threshold runs per week. I thought (hoped) I would see improvements before 5 months...I'll post again at the end of the plan, so watch this space xx

[SkiMonday Graduate10 in reply to Curlygurly2]

I've been using a slow running routine for a few months now. Great for distance and it seemed to work OK for speed up to the end of November. Since then, I think I've been slowing down a bit. Dithering about it, but might try speeding up one of the short runs.

Be useful to see how you get on so, space being watched!

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to SkiMonday]

Oh you sound just like me! I was fine until a few weeks ago, could sprint at my usual pace. I was never fast, but 9 mins for sprint is barely above fast walking pace...I'm going to stick with it until the end of the plan so I'll keep you posted xx

[RunWillie Graduate10]

I’ve been low heart training since September. I’m 100% slower. The only thing that keeps me doing it is that I’ve had zero injuries since MAF and the hope that one day it might work 🤣

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to RunWillie]

Thank you RW, I started about the same time too. I'll keep plodding along and see what happens... best of luck to you xx

[Jell6 Graduate10]

I don't know Curlygurly2 , I have generally slowed down and definitely prefer the runs, but I try one run a week when I go for the final km. That's coming in similar to my previous running times, but my HR is not going as high, I do still get into the peak zone though. I would have thought you could get the speed up, but perhaps improved cardio explains why your HR is still lower?

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10 in reply to Jell6]

Thank you Jell, I've no idea really what's going on, but from a couple of posts above here it seems to be fairly normal, and that was what I wanted to knw really, that I'm not just slowing down for ever! I'm going to keep on with the plan, then take stock of where I am.

[Curlygurly2 Graduate10]

An update for those who kindly commented... I contacted Garmin and my watch has developed a fault. It's had me running at speeds of 11 mins per KM....I've done a reset and it seems to be better. All I need now is to get a bit of pace back...