Conflicting goals for July - to get slower and faster :-)

[pianoteacher]

Hopefully this will be both sensible and doable - all advice welcome!

I know I am going to have to slow my pace in order to increase my distance. My comfortable pace for 5km is too fast for non-stop longer runs. I joined a running club last week and did a longer run with them (approx 10k). The pace was quite fast but we stopped reasonably regularly so I didn't find it too bad - except the last 1500m 😂But I want to run longer distances by myself too without stops. Tailwalker at Parkrun on Saturday so after reading Hidden post I'm going to target a slower pace (7:00 a km or possibly slower with the inclines in the park!) over a longer distance on Friday.

But I also want to increase my speed over shorter distances and ultimately bring my 5k time down. So in my short run of the week I am going to try doing the second km fast. 5:04 this morning but I did have to have a couple of minutes rest before continuing so that may have been a little fast in this heat!

I would love to be someone who could just go out and run without even looking at stats but I'm very goal orientated and have been since childhood. Maybe I'll make August's goal to run with no stats

[Ripcurlrana71 Graduate10]

Before B210k I was trying to get faster but soon realised trying to beat my 5k PB of 33 mins was too hard and obsessive.

By doing the 10K plan I’ve ignored 5k altogether and concentrated on doing the long distance. I average 7/km which right now I’m happy with. My current goal is to get to 10K. Next is doing it faster! I found I need one goal so it’s achievable then make a new one! 😬😬

Why not take your watch off when you start running so you don’t look at the pace? Or turn any pace alerts off? xx

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Ripcurlrana71]

I think I can manage the two goals as long as I keep them completely separate ie not trying to do any 5k PBs this month - just keeping it to one fast km per week.

Do you know if it's possible to turn pace off on the Garmin and just have distance?xx

[Ripcurlrana71 Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

Yikes now you’re asking! But I assume so. 🧐 xx

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Ripcurlrana71]

I'll have a fiddle with it Might need to leave it on to start with though so I can consciously make an effort to slow down! Once I can feel what that's like I will hopefully be ok xx

[Ripcurlrana71 Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

Think you can set virtual pacer - which I’m assuming you can set a slower pace and it will alert you if you aren’t doing it? Just guessing here! X

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Ripcurlrana71]

Thanks - I'll take a look x

[misswobble Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

The virtual pacer is fab 👍😃

Fast five k’s are very hard! So mind how you go with those

Stronger first and foremost. Long, slow runs build legs! Take breaks as you need to. It’s sensible to do so 💪👍🙂

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to misswobble]

Just googled how to set it up - doesn't look to complicated even for my limited tech skills

No fast 5ks for me at the moment - legs are fine but need to strengthen my lungs x

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to misswobble]

It's okay to walk from time to time!!

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to Ripcurlrana71]

On the old ones the size of a house brick there was a little stick figure as your pacer. But since the screen was the size of an ant it wasn't terribly useful...

[Sqkr in reply to pianoteacher]

You can customise your screens any way you like I believe—I have four numbers rolling in mine as standard (time/distance/pace/average pace) , but I see no reason you couldn't just have time and distance, say. I too love a bit of analysis and running metrics, but on a long run where I want to keep my running steady I sometimes just switch to the screen that monitors heart rate zones. Then rather than obsessively monitoring pace I can glance down occasionally to make sure I'm keeping things aerobic, which amounts to vaguely the same thing as slowing my pace. There are lots of options in the Garmin connect store if you can't get exactly what you want too, both paid and free. For example, I downloaded a wee cat thing that does a sad face if you don't do enough steps and gives you a heart if it is happy. It's the little things, right? 😀

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Sqkr]

Good tips - thanks. The cat sounds cool

[Hidden]

Intervals or fartlreks I believe. With Farley’s you just aim to run faster between two points, then slower between two similar points, then faster etc.

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Flick! sallenson was mucking about with these the other day and they sounded fun. Need to have a proper Google x

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

Nah, just chat to me. LMFAO

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to sallenson]

Not talking to you - you were rude about Clarinets 🤣😂🤣

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

To be fair I was rude about Brahms. And about my clarinet playing ability and the state of the repertory. I think clarinets are fine animals, but should not be kept in zoos. They should roam free across the South Downs...

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to sallenson]

OK I'll let you off then 😘

[Hidden in reply to pianoteacher]

Just realised my autocorrect changed the second fartleks to Farley’s 😂

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

I love a good rusk tho

[Hidden in reply to sallenson]

But possibly not Farley’s, that taste like malted cardboard 😳

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

I like them - although they're not as nice now they've taken all the sugar out of them 😂

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Yes I wondered how rusks would help my training regimen

[Hidden in reply to pinkaardvark]

😂😂 maybe they work like spinach does for

Popeye 💪🏻

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

That's so funny...I assumed you were so knowledgeable that you were referring to Farleys Fartleks, which I think you'll find is the full and proper title! It isn't? Think you'll find it is from now on 😆 I'll never think of them as anything else now. 😋

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

"mucking about"??

Just cos I'm still in Reception??

It's called "Structured Play-oriented Learning At Threshold"

SPLAT for short

xx

[Tasha99 Graduate10]

Intervals are helping me with my ParkRun speed. Slowly but surely. I do them on a dreadmill. I’m trying not to bother looking at pace for longer runs now, but I’m about 1 min per km or more slower on those than on a ParkRun. I’m also obsessed with stats and trying to get over it!

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Tasha99]

It's funny isn't it? I do try to get away from them - ran my fastest Parkrun after a couple of weeks of not being bothered about pace - but I always seem to come back to "how fast can I go". At least I've managed to get away from going hell for leather on every run so that's something!

Will have a look at intervals - is it the 30/20/10 ones you're doing? x

[Tasha99 Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

No I just do one minutes sprint, 3 minutes slow jog x 6 but I might lengthen the sprints marginally this week. My sprints are slow 😂

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Tasha99]

I'm comedically slow at sprinting - the 100m at school was hilarious 😂 Sounds a good way to mix it up x

[over61andstilltrying Graduate10]

Hi pianoteacher, Isn't it wonderful how different we all are!? Some wanting to slow down, some wanting to speed up and some wanting to do both! You are allowed to leave your watch, phone, ... at home you know! What a thought?! I am sure you'll find a way to achieve your goals. Enjoy the journey!

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to over61andstilltrying]

Thank you! That's one of the things I love about running - there are so many options. Really want to do some cross country running where I don't know anything about pace or distance but can't fit it all in without risk of injury 😔

[over61andstilltrying Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

My routes are mostly off road and where one places one's foot is a serious consideration. It is a way of staying slow though. It can be a toss up between enjoying the view and very careful foot placing to stay injury free. As sallenson says there is a place for both of your goals to work together. I think you said from a chat with one of your new running club friends that only 20% of your running should be at race pace. Have fun!

[sallenson Graduate10]

I don't think you've got incompatible goals at all. You want to run faster and you want to run (faster) for longer. So it's about speed and its about endurance. There might be different training techniques that are appropriate for each, but they're all part of the same mix. I'm sure that you don't want to run more slowly over longer distance. Get the damn things out of the way as fast as you can. Then there's time for kettlebells and cake and playing the clarinet..

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to sallenson]

Haha! Not forgetting work, piano practise, learning German and being in the TA. Gonna have to run like Paula Radcliffe 🤣

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

Take tissues tho

[Razouski in reply to sallenson]

😂

[Hidden in reply to pianoteacher]

Please don't! 😬

[Berksrover Graduate10]

I am in the stats obsessed camp, with various running apps and Fitbit watch all giving data but I might just have to go down the Garmin route to get everything in one place, my biggest bugbear still is controlling my pace on outdoor runs, almost always start off to quickly and pay the price later on

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Berksrover]

The watch is the thing that has helped me the most I would say. I was able to look down and see at Parkrun that I was screaming off way to fast and settle into something much more sustainable x

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

And a watch with some sort of animated kitten on it would rock!!

[Hidden in reply to Berksrover]

Twins! I'm also thinking of doing the Garmin thing. Have a FB Blaze now but it's way off on runs. Strava has been more accurate but so tempted to do the proper running thing now...

Kinda frightened to jinx it like our _SimonT_ though! 😯

[_SimonT_ in reply to Hidden]

I’d love a watch but I daren’t. Maybe Christmas. Even that might be too soon. I’ll stick with my phone for now! 😜

[pinkaardvark Graduate10]

Sounds like you are just experiencing the perennial problem runners experience of learning to run at differing paces appropriate with the demand required. Slow pace for long run and quick pace for speed work. Factor in a nice tempo pace and you have almost a full kit bag, but it can be incredibly hard learning to govern your speed rather than just running how you feel and can actually use very different muscle groups, ie slow running uses the calves and core far more with speed work using the glutes and quads for power.

A good training program should be a balance between all of these running forms, so no your goals are not at odds in fact they are typical and correct

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

That's really interesting! I would say my calves are the weakest of my leg muscles - whenever I do Insanity workouts they ache like crazy the next day! Good to know I'm heading in the right general direction with what I'm trying to achieve x

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

Spot on. It's about developing a set of different "gears" that are appropriate for whatever we're doing. That's what makes it interesting and fun. Or at least that what I'm telling myself atm...

[Hidden in reply to pinkaardvark]

This all makes sense. Love how you've wrapped it up succinctly. I noticed all plans are on the same vein, but don't explain why. I went along with it because of the old adage "a thousand people can't be wrong...".

[Hidden]

No wonder fast running is hard for me. Left buttock weak. I have a mild scoliosis, and with a scoliosis the buttock doesn’t descend when you raise your knee to the waist then lower it

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Yes glutes are quite important in fast running, some people have poor glutes, some have great glutes but they don't fire when running (I find it hard to get my head around that concept) some info I found the other day here youtube.com/watch?v=5gfhnww...(Not working as expected?)

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

Going to be late for work but will watch that later x

[sallenson Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

Can you not just point at them like SirrAlun and shout "You're fired?"

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

I've got mild scoliosis too Hidden - my curve is in the base of my spine. Caused me loads of problems when I did ballet (pre diagnosis) - teachers couldn't understand why I couldn't stand straight! My ears are wonky too so no dangly earrings for me x

[Hidden in reply to pianoteacher]

Mine is at the base of the spine too. I wasn’t born with it - it was caused by shortening of the left leg after a fractured femur. The muscles on that leg are weaker too, there is a degree of wasting. I can wear dangly earrings though 😉

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

OMG - fantastic that you can run with all that going on!

Think mine was from birth although it wasn't discovered until my school medical at 13. Had to go to London to see a specialist - thought I might have to go in a brace but luckily not. I do think I might be a bit taller without it though

[Hidden in reply to pianoteacher]

Running has really strengthened my back and spine and evened things out a bit 😊

[Razouski]

Hi Pianoteacher,

I have had the same two goals. I’ve managed to increase distance and still run at a similar pace. However getting faster has been more of a challenge. I HATE intervals with a passion and tried pyramid runs a few times and hated those too.

My best success was last week using C25K week 1, but running in the walking section and running faster in the run sections. I then continued the slower pace through the 5 minute walk and then some to get me to 6km. The first 5km were a PB. I’m going to try it again for my shorter run this week.

[ClareO65 in reply to Razouski]

Ooh- I might try that too. I did intervals for the first time last week and it was grim. I dread doing them again in fact.

[Razouski in reply to ClareO65]

When I did C25K I used the podcasts, but last week I used the App and the lovely voice of Michael Johnson, but with my own playlists playing, so it was quite a treat in some ways. I enjoyed it far more than using the C25K+ Speed podcast.

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Razouski]

Thank you! This forum is so great - so many good ideas xx

[ju-ju- Graduate10]

There is nothing wrong with being goal orientated, whatever keeps you running is a very good thing 😎

[Dexy5 Graduate10]

How did you enjoy being tail walker pianoteacher? Did you have some c25ks?

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Dexy5]

I just emailed via the volunteer link a couple of weeks ago asking to do it. They already had someone for that week and the next but put me and my son down for this week (hopefully!)

I met the guy who set up Parkrun in my town last Wednesday as his wife was running in the same running group as me - he remembered my email and said I should get an email midweek to confirm everything. The club I've joined do a Walk to Run group and they encourage the members to do Parkrun right from the start of their training. We often have people who walk the whole course too. I'm really looking forward to it

[Dexy5 Graduate10 in reply to pianoteacher]

Sorry I misread that you did it last Saturday. I’ve done passing tokens to token giver and putting tokens back in order at the end now. I’ll try for Marshall next time I think. But I want to get a few runs in now.

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Dexy5]

I know what you mean - I'm keen to volunteer but like running too! Think I'm going to aim to volunteer every couple of months x

[Kherif Graduate10]

I’m unsure about goals too. I wanted to get faster but after chatting to some more experienced runners at a social running group I tried for the first time tonight they said to go for distance and speed will come later. I’d never done a social group before and thought I’d run slowly (especially at times in our town where pathways narrowed and we got bunched up) but my pace was faster than my run on Friday! I’m still confused 🤷‍♀️ 😄

[pianoteacher Graduate10 in reply to Kherif]

In my limited experience (stuff I've learnt in the last couple of weeks 😂) it seems to be a bad idea to just keep running 5k full pelt hoping to get faster and faster. I ran my PB after a couple of weeks of not bothering about pace.

I was talking to a very experienced runner at running club last week (he's quite a bit older than me and regularly runs Parkrun sub20) and he said to only do 10% of your weekly mileage at "race pace". Mind you he also told me to do a fast time I need to jog for 30mins beforehand and I'm not sure I'm up to that!!

I ran faster over a longer distance than I have ever run when I went with the group. Chatting to the others was definitely a nice distraction from any thoughts about being tired

Good luck with whatever goals you decide on x