Now I have been a forum member for a few months I have to admit there are two types of post that bemuse me!
The first is "I have symptom X, could it be drug Y I was recently perscribed?" Statins and the beta blocker Bisoprolol are the most frequent, where people seem to expect (even want) side effects! Some verge on the bizarre.
The next is "I have been prescribed drug Z. Has anybody taken this and what side effects did they have?"
When I was younger people were prescribed medication, took it and in the vast majority of cases it worked as it was meant to. What has caused the current mindset? Is it just the internet that is full of misinformation. It also puzzles me that people are willing to listen to some fringe self promoting guru who pops a few videos up on YouTube!
What are your thoughts?
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Heythrop51
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In the past pollution was less and diseases were less complicated . Pharma companies were not after profits alone .People used to get cured with minimum medication . Now that disease s have become drug resistant , specially bacteria has become antibiotic resistant people are getting confused and anxious .If they believe blindly what doctors are giving they are facing many complication which further causes further drugging .If you want a proof , just go for the prescriptions and see whether they are all really aiming at cures only .
Whilst I admit there are issues with drug resistant infections much of this is due to people not completing courses if antibiotics and their introduction into the food chain.
The drugs I referred to are ones for conditions like elevated blood pressure, cholesterol and diabetes (I am pre-diabetic). Left to their own devices these conditions lead to further problems and even death!
And Big Pharma you were hinting at is just a conspiracy theory originating from social media.
Anyway I have to hit the M25 now so will check in later to see other people's thoughts.
ALL THE PROBLEMS MENTIONED BY YOU ARE LIFE STYLE DISORDERS AND NOT DISEASES once the due changes are made in lifestyle , observing moderation in diet , exercise , sleep , rest and attitude towards life and ambition they just disappear .Right now what all people get when once they go to a doctors life long prescriptions .
I will not use Capitals as these indictate shouting. Many people here have suffered heart attacks and other types of heart disease out of the blue without the risk factors of smoking, junk food diet, etc. I have been a Type I diabetic since childhood - if you care to read up on it lifestyle has nothing to do with it. My father, his brother and their father all died prematurely of heart attacks and more than one cardiologist has said to me "the issue is hereditary with diabetes complicating not causing the issue"!
Please do not insult people's intelligence! Lifestyle is important but not the only cause.
If life style changes are not important , if only medication is going to cure why continuous treatments for years together are not giving reversal of these diseases , If it is felt like an insult to people's intelligence I am sorry . But what answer do they have for the menace of diabetes which is killing nearly one third of world's population , and which is driving them to bankruptcy .It is almost making them to feel like facing capital punishment . In advanced countries there are social security measures , but the case is not same every where . Yes , I insist the point . If so many cases are found in one family definitely it is an outcome of lifestyle factors . Same food habits , same living conditions , same attitudes about social values in course of time create to same genetic set up . What is a habit in one generation becomes a genetic trait in the third generation . Of course it is said that diabetes is not genetic . But the causative factors create genetic predisposition .Any way hats off to people like you who are intelligent and creative geniuses .
I wish you could sit and explain your theory to my family. We have genetic poly cystic kidney disease in our family.
How is a genetic condition lifestyle.
Maybe you can sit at the dialysis machine with my siblings and mother who carry the gene. Mayb telling them a better diet would have prevented a genetic illness would make them feel better ??? Hmmmm.. I think not
Exactly!! My sister unfortunately has familial hypercholesterolaemia which is inherited, how has her lifestyle caused that! Another sister was born with a hole in her heart and a murmur, how has her lifestyle caused that! No diet will ever cure those conditions!
I have genetic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and silly me, I opted for an ICD/pacemaker and prescription medication over just eating greens and mudrat!
And shame on my family that passed this on to me! I'm certain it was their hardworking, God fearing, grounded, morally upstanding with values lifestyle that caused it!
HAHAHAHAHA! (Now that word I don't mind all caps!) Dang spell check...I meant "mudras"...or did I? Maybe I was thinking of eating nhpbs.org/natureworks/muskr...
Well...you marinate it overnight in a dry "wit" rub, then "roast" it at the stake. Or you can boil it up in a huge, diverse melting pot filled with sarcasm. Then serve it up on a silver platter, with lots of "funny sauce" on the side! But make sure you do it all "anonymously", of course!
Assuming we are talking the four legged variety rather than the four wheeled one I would do it in a similar style to Beef Bourgenion. Mudrat and ale pie might be another possibility! What "Hidden" didn't say was how many times a week you have it?
Skin and eviscerate the rat and split it lengthwise. Fry until brown in a mixture of butter and peanut oil. Cover with water, add tomatoes or tomato purée, hot red peppers, and salt. Simmer the rat until tender and serve with rice.
I think LaceyLady is referring to the poster who claimed everything, including hereditary conditions, is lifestyle related and that they could be cured by diet and mudras. Then after making these stupid claims they hid their identity.
Joking apart it just seems every time I use it I hit a traffic jam. As I queued at the Dartford crossing going I came back via Heathrow and queued! Thirty years ago I lapped in in under two hours in an Escort RS!
My thoughts are simple. Take the medication prescribed. Your GP will be aware of any possible side affects but balances them against the benefits of taking it.
I have no idea why people follow internet gurus but I do notice that the people who post on Malcolm Kendrick's site are predominantly people who believe in conspiracy theories - sceptical of anything mainstream but swallowing any amount of pseudo-science and crackpot theories.
Patient information leaflets don't help - research show patients constantly overestimate their likelihood of side effects. Causality is also not explained - the side- effects list everything experienced by patients taking the drug without explaining that most of these were not actually caused by the drug.
Hence the nocebo effect.
The endless spread of internet misinformation is a real problem.
Science has come a long way. Medication break throughs have changed many lives.
Personally I never read the side effect page. I listen to what the md tells me to watch for. Then, if I feel something unusual I check to see if it's a side effect. Then I call the MD for advice.
I agree with your post
I think people are free to make they own choices. I don’t think people who advocate different methods of healthcare are crackpots. I personally agree with the whole sugar & carbs are the devils work debate. Healthy debates are good in a democratic society surely ?
I entirely agree that people are free to make their own choices - it's when they try to persuade others without making it clear that their views are not medically accepted.
I don't think people should put forward views on a BHF site which are opposed to the BHF, and at the least they should make it clear that their view is contrary to BHF advice.
I (and the BHF) agree that brown rice, wholemeal bread and wholemeal pasta are very good for you and it is ridiculous to lump them with sugar, but there are doubtless people out there who are convinced the BHF is in the pay of Big Brown Rice!
I'm glad you have faith in the 'experts'.
I'd point out that Prozac was overprescibed by said experts to all and sundry for depression with no regard to age/conditon until it was discovered that previously witheld data from the manufacturer showed a small but significant possibility of suicide amongst teenagers. The definition of depression just about covered everyone at some stage in their life.
Prozac and its ilk are a billion dollar cash cow.
Zantac was prescribed for the newly (at the time) described disease called Gastroesophageal reflux - thats heartburn to you and me (Milk of Magnesia sorts that out)- but became the first blockbuster drug,
Zantac and its clones are another billion dollar drug.
Do I need to mention the opioid crisis - overpresciption by the medical profession of powerful drugs causing the deaths of thousands?
The last time I went to a GP she accessed the same page I did after a Google search for details on the drug she was about to prescribe - I told her the dose to save her reading. A different GP at the same practice told me that the only 'good' level of cholesterol was zero. I pointed out that the brain makes its own and this came as a surprise. I mentioned that zero cholesterol would mean I was dead.
One of the biggest problems in health today is that we are almost all the 'worried' well.
We've all got elevated this or lowered that - and the definitions of the numbers involved change to encompass more and more people. Almost all of us have hypertension, high cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc.
Believing in 'conspiracy theories' is a catchall covering the Bermuda triangle, Lord Lucan Shergar, Dianas death, the Vietnam war . 911, etc etc - some of these turned out to be worthy of further investigation.
Just because someones on the 'Internet' doesn't make them crackpots.
My health is primarily my responsibility after convesations with my family. The medical profession may offer prescriptions and advice - its up to me whether I follow said advice.
But as I say at the end of most of my posts - But what do I know/
As someone who lives with Refractory angina it is the lack of access to good quality pain management services that has lead to the opioid crisis.
My lovely well meaning GP offered me morphine because he wanted to help me manage my pain and try and stay out of hospital.
I said thank you but no thank you as it would be very easy to become addicted the morphine.
However like others on the forum I live with debilitating angina pain. What is the answer for us?
As my arteries are unobstructed I can't eat my way out of my heart condition as ' Hidden' suggests.
Nor can a baby born with a congential heart defect, a woman with pre eclampsia, those with inherited forms of cardiomyopathy and others with heart rhythm problems.
Can ' Hidden' please show themselves , why the need to hide?
I’m one of those who does have faith in the experts. Frankly I wouldn’t want just anyone messing about inside my heart. I think that GPs get a rough ride too. It must be impossible to remember the ins and outs of every condition and every medicine. With respect to the brain making cholesterol. That is true but it does that because it can’t access cholesterol in the blood stream due to the blood brain barrier. That also means that the cholesterol that’s made by the brain won’t register in any normal blood test.
I do agree that it’s good to be informed so that I can have a better understanding and question any decisions that I’m not happy with. But I don’t think that my self study in any way equates with years of specialist study and practice.
But, each to their own. Wishing you good health too.
Cateracts are very common, I have one myself as does my husband. My brother in law & a friend have both had success operations on them, nobody has ever mentioned going blind to any of us!!
I'm confused by your comment that you're perfectly healthy, are you part of the forum on behalf of someone else, as I am for my husband.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to change your medical team, your optical team and heart team do seem to veer towards dramatic language, you'll be blind without immediate eye surgery, you'll be dead in 3 months if you don't have heart surgery!
And yet it seems you've managed to cure your very serious heart condition & your cateracts yourself by eating yourself healthy!
I can't see that anyone has asked for proof from you and yet you state you don't want any further correspondence or demands for proof, you have also said the same thing on the diabetes forum, I'm afraid you lose all credibility if you can't substantiate your claims.
Plus, he's ate himself healthy which also cured his cataracts but will not give any proof of his claims and doesn't want anyone to ask for it or to enter into any further correspondence! 🤔
Strangely enough I'm just at this very moment going to the opticians, I'll ask if that is possible. However, to make the question more credible please can you post the proof. Thank you.
Sorry I find that hard to believe. I’ve studied Anatomy & Physiology. I’ve also had inter ocular lens implants and repercussions, won’t go into that here, but if anyone wishes to know the saga can message me.
I take Pravastatin, Entresto, Aspirin, Eplerenone, Bisoprolol, Omeprazole, and a GTN spray should I need it. None of them are going to Fix me In the old fashioned sense of the Mixture the Chemist used to serve up in a bottle.
I have read all the information leaflets that come with the Tablets and to be honest if I was of a Nervous Disposition I wouldn't take any of them.
I just work on the basis of the Cardiologist says take them to Manage your Symptoms and to Prevent you getting Worse, Because you are not going to get Better with our Current Crop of Medication !!!
Regards oh and a good post by the way.
Im a 66 yr old retired nurse, I see what you are saying. 40 yr ago in my early career, doctors were the authority. Most patients trusted and believed what they said. Now in our time of plentiful information, people are researching alot more( myself included) This is good and bad. There is more self diagnosing going on. My doc keeps commenting on my blood sugar, which is always normal but has been creeping up the normal scale a little. My diet/ lifestyle has improved. He fails to see that 2 meds Im on ( Lipitor and Metoprol) can affect blood sugar. Im going to bring it up at my next appt.
• in reply to
Hi Hoski,
I am fascinated by blood sugar and for no reason other than general interests sake have been recoding mine for 7 years - every day (I'm a geek really). I have nothing to eat after 8pm. We get up at 7.30 give or take. I walk the dogs for about 2km on the same route, come home, sit down and before I eat or drink anything I take my blood sugar using a calibrated tester.
This is as close to a fasting blood sugar as I can get and over 7 years has varied from 4 to 7. Usually around 5 but the variability amazes me. I firmly believe that there is no particular 'number' for any bodily function be it blood sugar, blood pressure or anything else.
Taking my blood pressure in a GP surgery is a total waste of time.
Richard
• in reply to
Yes, I agree. I know here in the USA, the home blood sugar machines can be 10-20% off on readings. Another thing to b sure to do is make sure your finger is clean as that can make a difference, especially if one has eaten finger foods .
I asked my GP about statins as I am pre-diabetic. His reply was if I did not lose weight I would probably become full.blown Type II 6 - 12 months earlier but if I didn't get my cholesterol down I might be heading for angina or worse. No brainer and everything is going down; weight, cholesterol and HbA1c.
Hello. I think people are just genuinely inquisitive about possible side effects and whether it will have an adverse effect on their already strained health.
I was prescribed betablockers and ended up in A&E with breathing difficulties. I've now been prescribed ramipril by my Cardiologist; hopefully they'll do the trick.
I love this forum and the advice offered from other peoples experiences, especially as I'm a complete novice in this field. But I understand your point 🙂
I ended up in CCU for 5 days after being prescribed beta blockers and experienced my worst coronary vasospasms ever.....
It is about working in an equal respectful partnership with your Cardiologists . A relationship that takes time and a building of trust between both parties.
Unfortunately the NHS just cannot provide this model of care for everyone at the moment. It is a method of working that challenges many doctors and nurses too.
Hi, I have very recently joined this forum and the Thyroid forum. My first thoughts were that I was the thick one on University Challenge! I will admit this forum is slightly easier to understand but there are so many ‘would be professors and those that criticise every drug on the market and knock every Dr out there.’ I am old school I guess, I had a heart attack a year ago, I take every pill prescribed to me without question, other than Ramipril which caused a terrible cough mentioned to dr and got it changed, simple. I do believe lifestyle is paramount to my condition and along with the meds and eating healthier, exercising etc I feel confident I am doing all the right things. I personally don’t want to be googling every symptom, every tablet I’m taking. I have faith in cardiac rehab and the advice of the BHF and that’s it. 🌞
30 years ago we didn’t have the internet. Lay-people couldn’t easily do any real research and had no choice but to trust their GP. GPs were like gods, nowadays if you have a major heart attack it can seem difficult to get them to even see you.
Nowadays it is much more obvious that there is often a lack of agreement among the medical profession. My cardiologist says a keto diet is good for my atherosclerosis and good for my heart in general, for example. I suspect your cardiologist has a different opinion and you think I should listen to yours not mine.
Further, all medications have side effects for some people. My mother had to stop taking a drug as it was causing her to go dizzy and she had falls and blackouts in the street because of it. For months her doctor ignored her pleas to find out what was wrong but eventually sent her for scans which came back clear and in the end I looked up the side effects of her various meds and dizzyness was listed at the top of the list of side effects. Her doctor obviously couldn’t bother to read and like you thinks nobody has side-effects. She has been clear of the dizzy spells for a year since stopping that drug, no thanks to the doctor, only thanks to me.
My father in law has had type 1 diabetes for over 70 years and has a multitude of horror stories of lack of knowledge from his GPs over the years. He has probably forgotten more about nutrition than our GPs have ever been taught. He was prescribed statins and immediately felt awful, persevered as long as he could but the pain was too much so he binned them then the side effects went away.
My elder brother was admitted as a cardiac emergency. He was put on statins but he also had to come off them due to muscle pain which stopped when he stopped the statin. All his life he had never eaten junk food, he was very strict on what he ate, never smoked, was never obese, had a reasonably physical job so is/was fit. But still had HA, due to genetics.
You seem to not realise that people are not robots and the general guidelines only work for 50% of the population. People have different DNA and different biochemistry. Why are some people obese even though they don’t eat much?
It’s clear that organisations like BHF have to make recommendations that will suit most people, will not ruffle feathers and the status quo. Obviously this restricts them from being progressive and forward thinking.
Organisations like the NHS have to balance the books and decide what is and what is not cost-effective or politically expedient. If I had had a £300 CAC scan aged 50 I most likely wouldn’t have had a heart attack and cost the NHS thousands for my stents and lifelong medications. The NHS is wonderful at treatment and prescribing when something goes wrong but woeful in some areas of prevention.
The NHS don’t routinely do LDL-P tests or LP(a) tests before dishing out buckets of drugs. Other more advanced countries like Australia and Canada do. We are in some ways 20 years behind in this country, and that is why the general public are often so far ahead of their GPs.
I trust my cardiologist and my own research but not blindly. I take on board information from a variety of sources as my health is more important to me than it is to anyone else.
I don’t trust my gp who can’t even ring me at the time she said she would and who didn’t want to see me or refer me further when 2 years ago my total cholesterol was over 9. This despite there being a recommendation from the path lab saying I would benefit from a referral to a FH specialist.
GPs are letting people down so they are empowering themselves.
Not all GP's, some maybe are not as good as they could be, maybe they'd liked to be but are just too overworked. There's a great many medical personnel who go above and beyond for their patients, to generalise in such a way is doing them a disservice.
If someone is not happy with their GP why not change them?
I’ve not said all GPs are bad. I’m sure there are good ones. I have a friend of the family (but 100 miles away) that is a GP (relatively young) and she’s full of beans still but admits they get no nutritional training for example.
Talking of nutrition, some may not know this but adopting a Mediterranean diet is actually purported to be 3 times more effective at reducing a person’s risk of further CVD than taking a Statin. I wonder how many GPs tell their patients that. Mine certainly didn’t given that she hasn’t even spoken to me since my HA.
You’re right about them being overworked too, I have friends that bother their GPs for the most trivial of matters which irks me somewhat.
Your comments were "GP's are letting people down" GP's are not nutritionists which is why, if necessary, you'll be referred to a nutritionist. Interesting that feel the need to advise me about statins, wasn't something I'd asked about!!!
It certainly it was bad practice - and against NHS guidelines - for you not to have been advised to take a statin. It is certainly worthwhile to inform oneself about the guidelines.
However, an LP(a) test or CAC scan would only have reiterated that you were high risk - something already shown by your cholesterol test and sadly confirmed by your heart attack.
It is very odd that you keep saying high LDL/ cholesterol shows nothing when your experience clearly negates this!
Incidentally while high LP(a) is an independent risk factor the first line of treatment is to use statins to lower LDL as much as possible, which has been shown to reduce the risk markedly.
Total Cholesterol as a measure on it’s own is known to be very limited unless exceptionally high (e.g. in the teens) as in FH. The best measure for predicting CVD risk is known to be TC:HDL as HDL tracks Triglycerides but is less noisy. As advocated by cardiologists worldwide. The risk is not LDL in general but specific LDL sub-fractions some of which are not treated by statins.
But there I go upsetting everyone again telling them what they already know.
The nurse I saw the other day said to me that before my heart attack I was considered very low risk due to my lifestyle, weight etc. and despite the cholesterol score. Because Cholesterol is the least relevant/weighty risk factor apparently.
Sorry you were wrongly reassured. Such a shame you didn't get your referral to the lipid clinic, which NICE recommends for your extremely high levels, but glad the atorvastatin is reducing your cholesterol now.
I had a high reading for years. Optician and work place tests highlighted it. I raised with GP on many occasions was informed not within parameters for statins.
Post heart! attack lipids consultant was shocked I had not been given statins ten years ago. Looking at my levels and family history it seems I was in the high risk category.
Completely undermined my confidence in my GP which continues to be low as it’s not possible to maintain a relationship with a doctor as they rotate through the practice so frequently. Look to change practice now as it seems every time I get a good doctor they move on. Can only assume the practice is not as good a place to work as others in the region.
That is so frustrating. Unfortunately statins for primary protection are very underprescribed by GPs (despite all the complaints they are pushing them on all and sundry!).
I totally agree with you. I have some relatives who google symptoms and self diagnose, there doctor seems to be always wrong when they know they have a serious illness (sorry many serious illnesses). They are walking medical mysteries.
I didn’t say nobody has side effects in fact I stated that I did from Ramipril and the dr changed it. I do understand what you are saying and yes I agree not all drs agree with one another and if you want to spend your time looking into everything then that’s your prerogative. Sorting out your mums problem was great and a job well done. I was just generalising the fact that not everyone wants to do that. I will be completely honest and say now that I believe these sites can have the ability to make some feel worse than they did before. 😯
Why did you post at all in this forum? I am delighted you are so well, having cured yourself. Well done. Now let the rest of us get on with living our best lives dealing with what we need to without your judgement.
I haven't checked in since yesterday and, Wow, 57 notifications. Another busy day ahead as have the grandchildren for the day! Anyway I will read through them all when I get the chance although I note the person who made some incredible claims has decided to hide themselves.
I don’t know how much you see in the U.K. of television ads for medication that shows how medications can turn your life into one big happy experience. Here in the States you can count on seeing two or three within an hour.
I asked my GP how effective are these ads. He said you would not believe the number of patients he has coming in every day asking and sometimes demanding that he prescribe these medications. He said he spends too much of his time explaining they don’t need the medication and then they think he’s denying them the best health care available.
He said his biggest request is for the little blue pill, and typically from men with heart disease. Then that starts the conversation of why they are not candidates for the medication. He said he use to get concerned that they would seek the medication elsewhere but after so many patients requesting the drug he said he issued them a stern warning and provides a written sheet of the dangers of the drug for them and the potential consequences.
It use to be that ads for medication was prohibited on TV, but Big Pharma lobbied our lawmakers and got their way.
When they ring just say "It's the last thing I need"!
I blame the adverts - the ones in America in which every side effect is listed as part of the advert. As more people visit America, more people get to see such ads...
Also, I've noticed that trend is moving over to the UK to list all possible side effects - almost to cover any litigation options.
My current experiment in heart management medication by the Cardiology unit seems to advise of potential side effects, one of which has already seen Ramripil removed from my collection of prescribed medications.
Before he hid himself I did look at his profile and he was quite prolific on a diabetes site, where he was peddling the same old toffee and again told people they don't need proof!
It was a bit odd as it was the first time he'd commented on this site but he'd commented quite a bit on the other site. He did say to a poster not to ask for proof as he knew it to be true and the poster said that she wasn't disbelieving him!
Someone had a similar reaction about eight months ago when they stated that it was possible to reverse atherosclerosis but when asked for evidence stated it was fact and left!
Not sure as their ID is hidden but the posts remain. Others have left and their posts have gone. I have looked in my profile page and cannot find any appropriate action!
Fillet of a fenny snake, In the cauldron boil and bake; Eye of newt and toe of frog, Wool of bat and tongue of dog, Adder's fork and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg and owlet's wing, For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble!
However, newts are a protected species and I haven't seen an adder in years. So I will give it a miss! 😁
The fact that people no longer have easy access to their doctors,( having to wait a week or more for an appointment), might be the reason why they write on this forum asking for advice.
I was on ICU and told the Dr that Verapamil I was on caused my BP to go low and after being omit for5 years the side effects were worse that the problem. He prescribed me medication and day later back at the hospital as one med took my BP FAR too low. Went to my cardiologist couple of days later whose eyebrows disappeared over his head when he saw what I was given - overdosed!
In my opinion if you are not sure, ask and if not happy, say and hope they’ll actually listen to your concerns and discuss. After all,it’s your health and life!
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
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