HOW CAN COPD BE " PROGRESSIVE " IF YOU HAVE STOPPED DOING WHAT MAY HAVE CAUSED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE ?

[vittorio]

I understand the liver can repair itself if a heavy drinker reduces his consumption of alcohol , or stops altogether , so why not the lungs - if smoking caused copd , although I have come across many people with copd and two with lung cncer .... who have never smoked .... what on earth is going on ? ...

[sassy59]

Hello vittorio, Pete gave up smoking many years ago but his COPD has progressed over the years. He does well though considering his other health problems so we’re just getting on with life. I wish COPD wasn’t progressive but unfortunately it is.

Hope you’re keeping as well as possible. Xxx🤗

[Superzob]

It is because everyone’s lungs deteriorate with time, because the alveoli in the lungs lose their elasticity - this is a natural, irreversible process. If you have COPD, then your lungs have deteriorated more than average, for whatever reason (I never smoked, but still have COPD - COPD is a diagnosis which is independent of the cause). Smoking tends to accelerate the deterioration but, if you stop, then the deterioration returns to its normal pace.

[Jaybird19]

my lungs were damaged by breathing in dust particles from a building demolition next door to work place . I developed a lung abscess in one lung which almost killed me .

if you think about it we do breathe in a lot of different materials , dust and gaseous substances that isnt filtered out by nose. i was just unlucky that it was probably a larger particle size .

I now have an atypical bronchectasis and cannot get enough air in through nose so have to breathe through mouth getting even more inhaled foreign matter ?

this in addition to age and other problems that develop over time

[peege]

The liver is quite unique in that it can regenerate, the lungs can't. Some people have the propensity to develop cancer, some don't.

[Bevvy]

The liver can repair itself but that is quite unique within different body organs. However even the liver can “go past the point of no return”. In other words the liver becomes so diseased that it cannot be repaired. Some people may be put forward for liver transplants but that is controversial if liver disease has been caused by alcohol. Medical staff want to be certain that patient has stopped drinking in order to receive this “gift”.

[Tykelady in reply to Bevvy]

And rightly so. At least with COPD, other than oxygen therapy, sufferers are encouraged not to smoke but many still do. By the time I stopped smoking 21 years ago the damage was already done and irreversible.

[Bevvy in reply to Tykelady]

Please remember that COPD is not only caused by smoking. Even when caused by smoking many people smoked years ago when there was NO understanding of dangers of smoking. In fact not only did GPs often smoke in consulting rooms but people were encouraged to smoke for certain conditions.

My COPD has been caused by damage being done by numerous episodes of pleurisy plus general pollution. Statistically it would appear that many people are now being diagnosed with COPD who have never smoked.

[Tykelady in reply to Bevvy]

I had whooping cough in infancy and was told that that can contribute to lung problems in later life. I certainly remember the ashtray on the doctor's desk.

[PaulineHM]

Hello Vittorio,

There is no simple answer as to why COPD is a progressive condition. There is no doubt it though, probably due to the original damage. Smoking as a young person/teenager also adds to the damage as it prevents normal lung development.

The effects of COPD can be reduced and the progression of the condition slowed by healthy behaviours, a positive mental attitude, understanding the condition, taking medication as prescribed, keeping lung infections to a minimum, regular appropriate exercise and vaccinations.

Go well.

Pauline

[BronchyBronwen]

Just to support Bevvy and Peege's comment: I managed to get infective hepatitis from lack of hygiene in preparation of school meals, age 16, followed by 6 weeks in isolation hospital N London (just before O Levels, if people remember those). Strict instructions for low fat/fat free food and no alcohol for a year (not a problem at that age!). Liver completely regenerated. Very fortunate, but yes liver is a wonderful organ in terms of regeneration.

[Izb1]

If only the lungs could regenerate like the liver. Sadly by the time we get to give up smoking the damage has already been done and we have to live with these consequences, changing our life style helps to slow the progress but other factors such as age kick in or we develop other conditions that dont help. We can only try to be healthy and help ourselves as much as possible x

[katieoxo60]

Hello vittorio, it is very confusing. But think most of the replies sum it up COPD is a disease that progresses but if you take care it maybe at a very slow pace. Airways &lungs cannot repair themselves, things like bad air breathed in damages the linings of the airways so there are many things that make breathing conditions worsen. Even pollen irratates the airways in some people. So there is no simple answer to your question. Breathing conditions have to be lived with often for many years, but with good management you can grow old with a reasonable lifestyle, however you may have to take things more slowly than others. Try to stay as well as can be and avoid the bugs like colds ect

[Lutontown]

In the genes. Also, I stopped smoking after 25 years of using cigarettes and a pipe when I was 45, but I think the damage had already been done. The effects were already there, but progressed as the years went on. I also think that chest infections can damage your lungs, as does exposure to black mould. Bacterial and fungal infections that aren't knocked out quickly by the correct antibiotic, can cause damage. I'm sure a 7 month exposure to Staphylloccus Aureus caused my bi-basal bronchiectasis. I blame my surgery for that, but there was a lot going on there.

[Timberman]

COPD is not itself a disease. It is a name grouping several diseases together. All of these are progressive because the damage once done causes changes in the organs which accumulate over time. This an be slowed and even sometimes controlled but as I read it cannot be stopped.

I have emphysema which is the result of several factors: moist significant probably is that I was a heavy smoker between age 15 and 50 when I stopped. But I also worked in the newspaper industry and for some years in an atmosphere of paper dust, hot metal fumes and more. But worse - it is highly likely I have a genetic make up which makes it more likely I will succumb. My grandmother and my mother both died of the results of emphysema. My full brother is a victim - but my half-brothers by my father only do not.

I also have bronchiectasis (damage to the airways) for which the most likely cause is gastric reflux caused for many years by an incipient ulcer which I unwisely failed to treat for some years.

Both these diseases do not 'develop' in the way that a bacterial or viral infection might. Rather, because of the strains they out on the system, the demands they make on the body's defences and the potential to cause infection (and worsen it when it comes) they develop steadily.

I am told that one rarely dies of either - what carries us off is an infection, more often than not pneumonia. Been there twice so far.

By the way the other COPD disease is asthma about which I know less as I have it only very mildly.

NOTE: I am not a clinician at all; merely a long term patient who needs to know. Please check everything I say as necessary with a real expert.

EDIT: Clarification, since confusion is possible. Asthma is not necessarily COPD but as below can be related. However it is often associated with the diseases within COPD definition as in my case. That is why Asthma UK and Lung UK have united.

>> UK - Because the symptoms are similar and because people who have asthma can go on to develop COPD in later life, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish the two conditions. Additionally, some people have both COPD and asthma.1 May 2022

What is COPD? - Asthma + Lung UK <<

>>US - And if left untreated, allergies and asthma can increase the chances for COPD in certain individuals. But COPD is not the same thing as asthma, and COPD is not caused by allergies or asthma. COPD is a collection of lung diseases. Sometimes asthma is part of the collection and sometimes it isn't.

Asthma-COPD Overlap | ACAAI Public Website/ American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology<<

[Bevvy in reply to Timberman]

I just want to reassure people. COPD as you quite correctly surmise is usually emphysema and/or chronic bronchitis. It only occasionally includes asthma - the vast majority of people with asthma are not viewed as having COPD.

[Timberman in reply to Bevvy]

And if left untreated, allergies and asthma can increase the chances for COPD in certain individuals. But COPD is not the same thing as asthma, and COPD is not caused by allergies or asthma. COPD is a collection of lung diseases. Sometimes asthma is part of the collection and sometimes it isn't.

Asthma-COPD Overlap | ACAAI Public Website

American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology

acaai.org › Asthma › Types of Asthma

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[sean_jax]

heart cannot repair itself. Once you have a heart attack damage has been done. If you keep risk factors it will get worse. So each organ is different. For the lungs COPS can come from air pollution, chemical pollution, asthma and lot of of causes . Smoking is one of them and the main culprit. once you get emphysema it will get worse, your job is to slow it down by stopping smoking, avoid air pollution or chemical pollution, doing physical exercises , get vaccinated. Avoid lung infections, losing excess weight, eat healthy, so on and so for. Same thing applies for asthma , chronic bronchitis. And last thing body gets older and it gets weaker and weaker. People can get lung cancer without smoking because of gene mutations. To respond to your questions why on earth people die?

All we can do is to manage it and try to live the best life of left to live.

[Patk1]

Its just the way it is.we would all love lungs,joints etc to regenerate- by god,with all the problems+ diseases i have, i would x

[TheOldBoy]

Hi Vittorio,

Re: COPD progression, even healthy people loose lung function… From what I’ve read… ‘research indicates, on average people who quit smoking see there lung function decline (on average) at half the rate of those who continue to smoke’

It would seem that life itself is a chronic condition… But lifestyle can have an influence on progression… I’m not a clinician so take this with a pinch of salt…

Good luck. Cheers, Adam

Decline in FEV1 vs smoking status