Believing in Recovery (and what does it mean?)

[Gandolfication]

I have long wondered, worried, and had angst over whether recovery is real, or at least a real(istic) possibility for me. And what it means, and how I would define it?

The mental health profession still generally holds a view that (most?) clinical diagnoses carry with them the proviso that one is never going to totally be cured or get rid of the condition, such as severe depression, bipolar disorder, etc. It goes a little beyond just saying that existential ennui is a part of lie, to accepting that clusters of anxiety and depressive symptoms are going to return, recurringly, and have to be dealt with and treated.

And so, like so many others, as badly as I want to recover (I've taken entire courses, done the group and individual therapy programs, read the books, audio, self-help ad nauseam, endless medications and treatments, and a hundred other things), I am reluctant to hold an expectation that I can or will. Or that it would be that much better if I did.

But I do. Want to. And believe it is possible. To me, it means functioning more consistently, and experiencing more happiness more of the time. Even if happiness means a rich, purposeful and meaningful life, father than one more free from pain. (Although hopefully it does mean less self-caused resistance-based suffering).

I've been listening a lot to this positive Self Talk+ app (shadhelmstetter.com/ on a 30-day trial; then it will be $20/mo, which is a lot for me, but I'm probably going to do it), and one of the affirmation modules talks about how my recovery is not a partial or half-hearted proposition, but I'm all in, committed, etc. And I am. I like the conviction and verve behind it. It's motivation, and its been getting a lot out of me. God, though, I am still so up and down, and it wears on me. I supposed this is one of those things I just have to apply the acceptance and commitment expressed say in the serenity prayer, to it. Its going to happen. But I can continue to learn and grow, and be more flexible, learn new ways to be resilient, let go of the rigidity of perfectionism, turn face and embrace anxiety, and just celebrate the richness of life, pain, sorrow, angst, disappointment, and all. It is a wonderful thing, and I am so very grateful to have it and have love in my life.

[litethatnevergoesout]

it’s great to hear from you, Gandolfication. it’s really impressive what you’ve done and are doing. it was very well written. keep it up. I support you so much

[LoveforAll41]

It is good to hear from you! It sounds like you are doing well at the moment. I can really empathize with the ups and downs. My wife likes to remind me that they will pass, my downs, but I am actually more negative on that topic and think that the good times will surely pass.

I am glad you found an app that is helping😀. There is something out there for all of us.

The functioning more consistently is a goal I love, for me that is being cured. Not missing out on things or shutting down and withdrawing simply from anxiety or depression but only picking no for things I genuinely do not want to do. I had the darndest time getting comfortable with emotions, and I still actually have a really hard time with the emotions of others, so not running to bingeing is also something I would consider being "cured" for myself. I think that you are a very caring and driven person, so to me it would make sense that you would have a very driving anxiety because you have a lot of things you care deeply for. Perfectionism is a hard thing to let go of I think, it can drive us to accomplish many many things. I think there is a lot of resistance to letting go of it.

Sorry I am always chiming in, your story is one that I relate to. ☮️

[Gandolfication in reply to LoveforAll41]

Hm, LoveforAll41, I go back and forth in my mind with whether into what degree I believe in or aspire to true 'cures' for depression... Mostly not I guess, but I do aspire to major, sustained, healthy recoveries and rich, purposeful meaningful lives with love, which may be aren't so different.

Yes, perfectionism and harsh critical self-judgment I've been extremely hard to even identify and really be aware of let alone let go of. I had made this custom tailored GPT (an app within the chat GBT app store) called Motivate Max, which is simply slightly modified version of ChatGPT design to help coach people who are perfectionistic and or ADHD. It's really good at synthesizing concise self-help psychology and action steps.

Yesterday I engaged in this colloquy with it, and might have an ongoing conversation back and forth about it later, although I think it can be seen that it's answer while not groundbreaking was pretty solid as usual.

Me:

High achieving people who are intelligent and over intellectualize sometimes struggle the most with judgmental self criticism because their subconscious inner critics are so crafty and clever. Their negative inner critical voices are so subtle and out maneuver them like a supercomputer playing chess against their own minds.

That's true of me. Because of this, I wonder how I might ever learn to treat myself with soothing tenderness and elementary kindness

Motivate Max GPT

Your insight into the challenges faced by high-achieving, intelligent individuals in dealing with their inner critic is spot-on. The very qualities that contribute to your success can also make self-criticism more cutting and difficult to manage. However, learning to treat yourself with soothing tenderness and kindness is possible. Here are some strategies tailored for someone with your intellectual and self-aware nature:

Intellectualize Self-Compassion: Start by understanding self-compassion from an intellectual standpoint. Read research or literature by experts like Kristin Neff or Brené Brown. Understanding the logic and benefits of self-compassion can help make it a more accessible concept for you.

Mindfulness and Awareness: Practice mindfulness to become more aware of when your inner critic is active. Mindfulness can help you observe these thoughts without getting entangled in them, allowing you to recognize them as just thoughts, not truths.

Challenge Your Inner Critic: When you notice self-critical thoughts, challenge them as you would a debate opponent. Ask yourself: Is this thought realistic? Is it fair? What evidence do I have for and against it? This can help you see these thoughts for what they are: mental habits, not facts.

Use Your Intelligence Positively: Redirect your intellectual energy towards positive self-talk and affirmations. Craft well-reasoned, positive statements about yourself and your abilities.

Embrace Your Humanity: Remember that being human inherently involves imperfection and mistakes. Understand intellectually that perfection is not only unattainable but also not necessary for success and happiness.

Small Acts of Kindness: Start with small, simple acts of kindness towards yourself. This might be taking breaks, engaging in a hobby, or simply allowing yourself time to read or relax.

Write It Down: Sometimes, writing down your thoughts and feelings can help you process them more effectively. It can also be a way to step back and analyze these thoughts from a more objective standpoint.

Seek Intellectual Peers for Support: Engage in discussions with peers who might share similar experiences. Sometimes, just knowing that others face the same challenges can normalize your experiences and offer different perspectives.

Therapy or Coaching: Consider therapy, particularly cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT), which can be effective for analytical minds. CBT focuses on identifying and changing thought patterns, which might be particularly suitable for someone who tends to overthink.

Self-Compassion Exercises: Engage in specific self-compassion exercises. These can include guided meditations, journaling exercises focused on self-compassion, or even writing a letter to yourself from a compassionate friend's perspective.

Remember, learning to treat yourself with kindness is a skill that can be developed over time. It may not feel natural at first, especially for someone used to rigorous self-analysis and high standards, but with consistent practice, it becomes more intuitive.

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One of the things I wish I could say I had learned better in an action-oriented application sense is that all this fun and lovely thinking often does not avail much and in fact can be detrimental (This is true. Even in the field of complex litigation law I practice). And I have to be honest, this is depressing and feels like despair... It's like one of the very few things I ever thought and was told I was good at, is cruelly and ironically a thorn in my side that trips me up. I know that often are greatest strengths on the other side of the coin are our greatest weaknesses... Dr. Martin Seligman and his approach to strengths based flourishing and learned optimism tries to combat this with our strengths, but I have found this elusive