Should patients have more information about possible withdrawal problems?
Uk BBC TV feature on SSRIs? also be... - Anxiety and Depre...
Uk BBC TV feature on SSRIs? also benzos and the difficulty withdrawing from them
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lillyofthevalley37
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62 Replies
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Benzos are no harder to withdraw from than other psychiatric medications. If they are used only for short periods of time or preferably on a when needed basis ie one or two taken occasionally in response to high anxiety, withdrawal is not a problem.
The wonderful thing about diazepam is that it gives relief within 5 minutes. Other psychiatric meds take 4 to 6 weeks.
In UK you can't get any benzo sleeping tablets like temazepam GP s will not prescribe them but they hand out SSRI s like smarties
I don't know about sleeping tablets but if you feel you need diazepam you have to convince the prescribing GP that you are a 'responsible user' and understand they are not for long term use and ideally for one-offs when anxiety is high.
I think the current media hype about people becoming addicted to a wide range of meds is rubbish. Of course if you suddenly stop taking any med you've been taking for some time cold turkey you're going to feel dreadful - the answer is to be slowly tapered off the med maybe over weeks. Where's the 'addiction' in that, doctors have known all this for decades.
The problem is that GPs sometimes forget to taper off long term meds.
Here's an article from the CDC regarding your statement of media hype, being in recovery myself....I seriously think this is not 'rubbish'....and I can tell you that to date this problem has gotten much much worse due to the people addicted to the prescribed drugs being cut off and going cold turkey...so they have gone to the streets for pain killers....and now you also have a new white devil...Carfentanil ;around one hundred times stronger effects than fentanyl and thousands of times stronger than heroin.
U.S. drug overdose deaths continue to rise; increase fueled by synthetic opioids
Press Release
Embargoed Until: Thursday, March 29, 2018, 1:00 p.m. ET
An in-depth analysis of 2016 U.S. drug overdose data shows that America’s overdose epidemic is spreading geographically and increasing across demographic groups. The report, from researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), appears in today’s issue of MMWR.
Drug overdoses killed 63,632 Americans in 2016. Nearly two-thirds of these deaths (66%) involved a prescription or illicit opioid. Overdose deaths increased in all categories of drugs examined for men and women, people ages 15 and older, all races and ethnicities, and across all levels of urbanization.
CDC’s new analysis confirms that recent increases in drug overdose deaths are driven by continued sharp increases in deaths involving synthetic opioids other than methadone, such as illicitly manufactured fentanyl (IMF).
I completely agree with u
I mean really....lets not sugar coat this....not everyone has an addictive personality....but here's another statistic for you....1 person in 3 that have an addictive predisposition, also suffer from depression....so if you reverse that statistic....well....I think there are a lot of people that are dual diagnosed like I am and just not dealing with it for fear of being labeled. It's a well known fact many self medicate because of one reason or another, the cost of meds and therapy, the availibilty, and simply because it's a quick fix to a long term problem.
The entire side of my family on my dads side. Self medication and depression. Average life span about 45. My mom got my dad out.
It is far more common than anyone, even on a mental health site wants to admit....It does run in my family, and it has nothing to do with anything but genetics and the extreme addiction properties some drugs have on people, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, ice, crack. It hits all who are pre-disposed without discrimination.....Its hit and miss in my family....some have it and some don't. And all the same is said ....'just have better self control', 'straighten up and grow up'....'your being selfish and irresponsible'....all the same things said to those of us with depression interestingly....
I’ve never been addicted to drugs but they call to me. Alcohol calls to me. I’ve never given in. I’ve watched half my family go to jail or die early. However I am a shopaholic and workaholic. That’s just as bad as I will work until my body fatigue and needs like food are not met.
You know the funny thing is.....addicts will tell you....anything can become an addiction and it's so true. I was asked how that could be if there isn't something like a drug or drink that is addictive, and when you stop, are you now cured. No....work, exorcise, gambling, sex, food ...anything done in excess as a compulsion is an addiction, there's an endorphin rush you get that is the body's best drug ever.
I can sadly attest to the work addiction and what it has done to me physically and mentally. And I didn't realize it until way too late. Then more rx's to deal with more issues.
That's what happens to people who obtain medications illegally, not really what I was referring to, outside the remit of the point I am making.
Ever since psychiatric meds became available it has been widely known that you don't come off them cold turkey, you're supposed to taper off them gradually.
What people are doing is coming off them full stop and then moaning that they've become addicted to them.
There are many people who are on meds for life, are they addicted too? Are Type One diabetes patients addicted to insulin? People with blood pressure addicted to blood pressure meds? I don't think so. People going to the streets for painkillers and ending up with stuff that's a thousand times stronger than heroine - what do they expect if they go to disreputable unregulated sources.
What the yellow press are doing in the U.K. is to demonise people who are on long-term medication as 'addicts'. This is pure rubbish, they need those meds and so long as they are prescribed under proper medical supervision with regular reviews there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't benefit from them. The gutter press journalists who write these headlines are the same people who say: "Depression? You don't need pills, just pull yourself together!"
You say the cost of therapy and meds is driving people to illicit suppliers, this does not happen in the U.K. where all therapy is free and meds free or heavily subsidised for everybody from the cradle to the grave. I haven't had to pay for meds for nearly 20 years and all doctors visits, tests, hospitalisation and procedures are completely free. So maybe conditions are dufferent here to the U.S.
Opiates aren’t benzos. Many of us in healthcare feel this was a calculated maneuver. Hand out a pill form of heroin and then hand out the pen to save lives. Who didn’t see it coming? I got my appendix out and asked for tramadol and the doctor gave me dilaudid. Very big difference.
• in reply toNeuronerdDoaty
Yes I had a tooth extraction, a seven, they have a complex long root, before the sedation I was given two Paracetamol and the same again when I was taken into recovery. To be honest I cannot decide if the medication did work however I am understanding of various different types of pain medications.
BOB
fauxartist• in reply to
paracetomamol is an over the counter med here that is pretty generic and non-addictive as far as I know, it's a mild pain reliever so you should be okay.
True.....and I should have made that clear....I was addressing the addiction issue.
Doctors depend I think a lot on pharmacists to catch their mistakes....the many times I've heard of too many drugs prescribed and the bad interactions is endless with my crowd...the over 60 group that is. The other factor is that drug reps. push their 'version of' so to speak with perks and other bribes....even thought they aren't...I was on a plane with a drug rep coming back from Kauai who said they were at a huge convention with doctors that were all perked the trip to hear from drug reps.
And nurses. They depend on nurses a lot. Make friends with your nurse. Sometimes docs prescribe things your allergic to or in the same category. Your pharmacist is a biochemist. Talk to them.
very very true.....my sister is a nurse, and I have many friends in the field that say the same.
Yes. Although a positive attitude and a good supportive health professional will help and guide you at that difficult time. Your GP or health Professionals will help. Take advice
.
It is all a hard place to be, I am now just starting to start a second reductions of medications and it is going to get harder as further introductions take place. My Wife helps by slowly reducing my medications and not telling me, that seems to work sometimes. I have taken two reductions in Citalopram and Amytryptalene, excuse spelling . That will start in the next four weeks, in my situation I also take Narcotics that need to be reduced as well, I have reduced the dose from 200mg to 150mg a while ago, so it will be a further 50mg reduction next time.
Not making light of the problem, my incentive is to do with age, medications have greater affect on the elderly
NeuronerdDoaty• in reply to
You’re a warrior with a good wife! Best of luck to you. It can not be easy. Wishing you all the best. I’m glad you have good support. 💛
fauxartist• in reply to
Your doing the right thing as far as reducing slowly....just be sure you take care of your needs as well, taking meds as prescribed is always a crap shoot, but some we need....I take an SSRI that clearly has made a difference in my disease, so it's as important as taking a med for heart disease or diabetes.
Johnson and Johnson are being sued just for that reason....not giving the public enough info about the addictive quality of their opioids that they rewarded doctors with big perks to push on the public.....but now because of the crackdown....the doctors cut patients off cold turkey and many were forced to the streets for cheaper sources .....And we can see how well that all is working out.
• in reply tofauxartist
I have not been pushed at any time, I used to go to Pain Clinic and I was shown how to vary medication doses. With Tramadol I am able to take them eight a day, generally I am on a holding dose of four a day, and if needed with some discomfort will take them down to three tablets a day and then two 50mg daily if my condition allows me.
The main problem I do have however if I forget all my medications in the evening I suffer nightmares so it is in my own interest to reduce my medications when I can or I end up with some very lucid nightmares.
Taking to much medication does happen especially with AD medications so it is important we understand our needs and expectations of the drugs we take.
Some people as explained on TV have real problems and those problems need to be addressed it is a shame explanations are not given on how to control the problems of addiction
BOB
NeuronerdDoaty• in reply to
Take care Bob. Try to remember you don’t want the nightmares. Wishing you the best!
Doaty
fauxartist• in reply to
You know....that is a phenomenon ....the nightmares some have with medications that hasn't been really addressed much. I had the same thing happen with an over the counter night time cold medicine, Night Nurse....after taking them for about 3 days I had to stop because I was getting these really dark nightmares about stuff that just made no sense as they were issues that didn't relate to where I am at in life right now....the day I stopped the nightmares stopped.
J&J are being sued for asbestos in baby powder from years ago when the packing system was flawed.
Here's a few articles you may be interested in Neuronerd.....
Article from : the guardian
Johnson & Johnson faces multibillion opioids lawsuit that could upend big pharma
Oklahoma is holding the drug giant with the family-friendly image responsible for its addiction epidemic
As the state of Oklahoma’s multibillion-dollar lawsuit against Johnson & Johnson has unfolded over the past month, the company has struggled to explain marketing strategies its accusers say dangerously misrepresented the risk of opioid addiction to doctors, manipulated medical research, and helped drive an epidemic that has claimed 400,000 lives over the past two decades.
Johnson & Johnson profited further as demand for opioids surged by buying poppy growing companies in Australia to supply the raw narcotic for its own medicines and other American drug makers.
One expert witness at the forefront of combatting the epidemic, Dr Andrew Kolodny, told the court he had little idea about Johnson & Johnson’s role until he saw the evidence in the case.
Article from: Brayton and Purcell:
Johnson & Johnson being Sued over Asbestos and Opioids
by brayton purcell llp | Jul 18, 2019 | Asbestos
Article by: Reuters
New York County Sues Purdue Pharma and Johnson & Johnson Over Opioid Marketing
May 15, 2017
Fauxartist I’m sorry I was adding what else they’re being sued for. I didn’t mean to dismiss your comment. Lack of responsibility over greed!
Never took it that way my friend, just thought you might be interested in additional info how big pharma gets away literally with murder....it's amazing that they are even being taken to court in the first place as they have had Teflon skin so far...because money talks and BS walks when it comes to the 1000% increase in the cost of some meds. The same drug that we pay 27.00 for where I live costs 10 times as much according to my pharmacist in the US.
I’m in the USA. I’ve walked on Washington. Insurance companies and oil are always going to make their money. Greed is sickening.
Agreed about the greed....and so too is the inept system that wastes billions on un-winnable wars on drugs, instead of working on an infrastructure to open rehabilitation workshops and clinics, to eliminate the cult like groups or glorified spa retreats passing for rehabs that many avoid because of the religious aspects or the price tag...We need to seriously gets down to the facts....if you have less addicts, you have less demand for the drugs. It's hard to fathom, but the largest dollar income in the US is illicit drugs....and with more people denied health care and costs for prescriptions for real pain management.....the streets have become the only source, and so does the demand for the opium grown in Afghanistan.
I could not have said it better. I think they’re plan worked lovely for them. We’re just sheep and can be replaced. This paradigm has been used before. I’m surprised at the people who can’t see the class war.
It's us and the 1% my friend.....we are 'the great un-washed' and then there are those few 'elite'...
I use that phrase as well! Dickens!
It was also a phrase quoted by many an arrogant aristocrat.... And it refers mostly to the turn of the century populous which frankly couldn't afford running water....
And nurses in the ER when they start their shift and see a full crowd in the ‘banquet hall’. The great unwashed masses have arrived.
US... I was prescribed a benzo (klonopin) for over 6 years and had to come off as I hit tolerance unknowingly and was worse then before I started. Read up on Any medications you are prescribed, the effects and long term use. I found out benzos are not to be taken longer then 2-3 weeks yet was prescribed for over 6 years. I used the words dependent over addicted from a fb group of over 3000 persons who are damaged from taking and trying to wean from this med.
I have been off over 2 years now as my gaba receptors are still trying to heal.
I've learned what natural medications to take... magnesium glycinate, l- thinning when I'm in a bunch.
Eating healthy and exercise is whay should be prescribed for most along with therapy. Everyone wants a quick fix without putting in the work, me included. I learned the hard way...
My benzos stop me from dying. I have complex partial seizures. No diet in an adult stops the damage in my brain.
Good luck with that.. I'm sure you're aware your dosage will need to be increased as the brain builds up a tolerance. Klonopin, my benzo is one of those specifically for seizures. Unfortunately they can also create them if you come off too fast. A catch 22...
22 years now. I haven’t needed an increase. It’s my ‘side dish’ that goes along with zonisamide for tonic-Clinic seizures. I actually used to be on more but I can’t ever remember to take pills in the middle of the day. I’ve always been working so we dropped it back. I won’t come off and I know not to come off any med fast. I was doing an EEG on a patient while I was having a hemorrhagic stroke. I knew what was happening. Felt like an ax in my head but my patient was well taken care of.
Sorry you've had to be medicated for so long but if that's what works for you and oit r seems like it has continue on.
I was prescribed Klonopin only, at a start dosage of 1.5mg daily taken .5 3x day.
No issues like yours.. mine were the everyday anxiety, restlessness, racing mind, insomnia etc... which could have been dealt with through proper nutrition, breathing exercises, mindfulness, meditation and prayer. Diagnosed as manic..
Maybe I just had to much sugar and caffine!
Walked out of my job while in tolerance not knowing what was wrong and decided to wean myself off.. it was hell.. still recovering 2 yrs later
I still do meditation, mindfulness, breathing, yoga or swimming, attempts at proper nutrition. I think it still helps me. If it wasn’t for seizure activity stopping me in my day I wouldn’t do it. I only take the meds that stop me from progressing as a human. All of those things help keep me healthy. (Sarcasm) I think I’d have to become an alcoholic to get off benzos- one demon for another. I’m so sorry it’s bothered you so much.
In my opinion some brains are more sensitive to them as well. My grandma slept for 4 days on one Ativan. Of course age effects them. We thought it was going to put her in a coma. It was scary. She woke up hungry. Thank God!
Alcohol is described as liquid benzo in some of the groups i was in after i came off. I stayed away from that too! Healing is individual as we are all different like you stated with your grandma..Glad she woke up! Our minds/ bodies are all so different
With you being in the field,....and no I'm not advocating CBD oil, although it has no high, no THC...I was reading a very interesting article how they have found it was stopping seizures in kids, I don't know about adults, but it's a medical fact you might be interested in.
Consumer Reports:
Can Cannabis Oil Really Treat Seizures?
The science on this promising marijuana extract is still uncertain
By Jeneen Interlandi
January 30, 2017
In 2013, reports that a chemical called cannabidiol (CBD) had reduced the seizures of a 6-year-old girl from near-death levels to almost zero sent desperate patients everywhere on a frenzied quest for treatment.
By most estimates, existing seizure medications fail about one-third of all sufferers, either because the drugs don't stop the seizures or because the side effects are too severe. As Figi's story spread, families with loved ones suffering from this type of epilepsy (which can range from seriously debilitating to life-threatening) began relocating from states where CBD could not be legally obtained to states where it could. At least some of them reported similarly miraculous responses to it.
Of course now it’s legal in many states…..
Thank you for your post. That's the way I understand it too
Short term use.
These meds were never intended for long term use.
And I agree there is a difference between dependence and abuse
Drug abuse is prescription shopping or buying off street.
Dependence is building the tolerance through no fault of your own when talking about prescription drugs taken as prescribed.
My aunt took valium for over twenty years when suddenly her GP said to come off them.Now she also had high bp and a heart condition and shortly after had a fatal heart attack at 59.I've taken lorazapam and came off them very very slowly.I agree they are great for beating the anxiety but very hard to come off.I had terrible palpitations so I can imagine how it affected my poor aunt.Mind you really anxious right now and wish there was something I could take since SSRIs don't agree with me.
I came off Klonopin (clonazepam) over 2 years ago and have stayed unmedicated .(prescriptions). If i get antsy i take l-theinine which is a dirivitive of green tea. At night i occasionally take magnesium glycinate. Both of these are natural remedies. I refuse to take scripts after the hell i was in coming and once off.
Breathing exercises, meditation, mindfulness and prayer have helped me through as well as staying away from sugar and caffine
I have a friend who uses tryptophan. Melatonin doesn’t work for her so she uses a little during the day and more at night for sleep. Again, we’re all different but I thought she was joking at first.
Tryptophan is what's found in Turkey and is said to put you to sleep... nice call... eat more turkey!
Melatonin is also not to be taken for extended periods so I stay away but do take a natural magnesium glycinate which most of us have depleted levels of. I'm trying to stay all natural or nothing. Soda ids one of my downfalls.. that and carbs..
Nothing but sugar..ugh.. double ugh 
I’m addicted to sugar.
I read that the brain uses glucose more than any other organ
The liver turns glucagon (hormone) into sugar (glucose) for the brains fuel.
I have an actual addiction since childhood. It’s not good for inflammation but I try to control the amount. It’s very hard.
My body screams for it. My brain gets foggy. My inflammation screams no!
I've given up every possible vice...I don't drink, smoke, or take any drugs other than my SSRI....I'm not giving up chocolate or my 1 cup of coffee....I'm going to my grave a happy corpse....
You can have life threatening seizures coming off benzos cold turkey. I hope your aunt was weaned off from them and her heart attack wasn't a fateful seizure
Well no, she was just told to stop taking them unfortunately so I expect that was the cause of her death.
That’s so sad. I can’t tell you how many patients I’ve had that I overruled their doctor who was not a neurologist and had them weaned. I’m so sorry about your aunt.
Thank you neuro nerd, his was back in 1981 though so maybe the dangers weren't fully appreciated back then.
I originally went cold turkey from my benzo and found out Quickly that ids Not the way to go and learned how to taper. Very sad of the misinformation on how slowly you should cut back. Many Dr's are unaware of the pitfalls. Yikes!
Well I suppose that's why most GPs are wary of using them.That said my other aunt was on a benzo sleeping pill for around 40 years until her death at 85 a couple of years ago.So there's still some long term users.
Yes, I know many who have been prescribed these long term, continually which is Not what they're meant for. I joined a support group of over 3000 after i came off because of the symptoms i received. These were all people struggling to come off or trying to understand the horrid symptoms they leave. I was Not prescribed these by a GP but by a psych dr. Long term use can lead to cognitive dysfunction and Alzheimer's. I think taken spiradically for anxiety is fine but not to be prescribed daily for long term. Too many consequences
I live in Virginia. It’s difficult to explain. Oils can’t help me yet, if ever.
Also they never tell you how often there’s cross pollination and you’ll test positive.
A few more years should straighten it out.
I'm sure that I'm late to the party and bringing the 20th bottle of wine but withdrawal and putting people on meds in the first place is a huge deal. A site dedicated to this:
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