Does anyone else find that pickled vegetables give them indigestion and that the indigestion sets off AF or am I the only one?
indigestion and Af: Does anyone else... - Atrial Fibrillati...
indigestion and Af
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southkorea
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Indigestion sets my arrhythmias off. Gastric and cardiac issues interact badly for some of us. Hope you can some ease from it. Be extra careful with your diet and cut out anything which is a trigger for you. Best wishes.
Thank you . No more pickled vegetables for me!’
It will be the vinegar in the pickled vegetables that gives you chest discomfort. Best to avoid that and fatty food. Oddly yogurt makes my stomach sore too, so I have to avoid that as well.
Thank you !
Fatty food? Anything specific?
Not really it's all trial and error. I go careful with the batter on chips and things like pork crackling are out. If you get soreness, then eating some almonds can help but they must be really well chewed.
Thank you
Hiya southkorea,
Way back in the day - about 13 years ago - I discovered all/any manner of food would trigger my AF, it didn't need to be indigestion either. I experienced any of the following symptoms - burping, intestinal gurgling - loud and embarassing, diahorrea and intense pain under the left ribs under the heart diaphragm area. Not all at the same time, only one at pure random. It would be the pain that would trigger the AF.
May I suggest you read up on the Vagal Nerve - a nerve in the central nervous system - like an information superhighway connecting the brain, heart and gut .
Over a considerable period of time I found a whole range of foods would kick off these symptoms by causing an irritation/inflammation of the Vagal Nerve. My GP back in the day, had me checked for IBS and Coealiac Disease but was all clear. I then consulted a Nutritionist who advised me on diet and haven't looked back. If I'm stupid, forget my diet rules etc etc then even these days it'll all kick off.
So, at a pure guess it is something in those pickled veggies that is kicking things off. It might be nothing to do with veggies either, it might be in the pickling liquid. No science here .... just sayin' - is all. Maybe reconsider your whole diet.
John
Yup me too…no matter what I eat sometimes AF can kick in.. I watch what I eat and when.. had a fried egg and toast…then AF, bowl of oatmeal A F kicked in,,, cheese sandwich etc etc…don’t know much about the nerve thing but I’m sure it’s related…
Hi, that's it ... eggs ! the only egg I can eat is scrambled. My list of forbidden foods would equal the size of a Delia Smith Cookbook.
Fer instance, if I have a nice bit of pork with crackling or roast duck ... I have to occupy bathroom for half a day if I don't cop AF first. Grrrrr 😱!
So interesting
Look at the York cardiologist on YouTube,many easy to understand videos on gastric and vagus nerves and af.
I thought mine was diet too. 8:episodes in 16 days..after lunch. Lunches were so varied so no idea. Got to the stage I was becoming paranoid eating lunch. But have since had a Chinese, fried eggs….who knows. Give up. I just carry on and eat what I want. I don’t seem to have triggers..
Haven’t had an episode now since the last one 9 days ago. So frustrating not even knowing the triggers
Thank you good advice! Must find a good nutritionist
look at the York cardiologist on YouTube, explains in easy to understand English gastric, vagus nerve and diet.
Thought mine was diet…but have had such varied lunches..sometimes it kicks off and other times not so I’m just carrying on as I want. And that was after having 8 episodes in 16 days after lunch . Can’t find a trigger. A fantastic huge Chinese I was fine..fried eggs(drained) and chips….no problem. It’s certainly a mystery..for me anyway
Good thinking!!
Hi there in South Korea.
Just got back from a holiday in JAPAN.
Pickled veges usually have VINEGAR. I find depending on solution I will get pains in stomach and sometimes painful wind.
Your gall bladder may not be working effectively. Do you have influx?
Gherkins are fine but any vinegar in cooking a no no.
Hubby put vinegar on a dish with mussels. I couldn't eat it.
As for AF I have persistent without symptoms.
cherio JOY
Pickled usually means fermented.
Thank you joy
Tyramine is a thing found in aged and pickled foods. Look it up. Has a range of issues. I have had AF from pickled foods and cheddar cheese. As well as other triggers. I am very delicate. Lots of info on the interweb.
Thank you! I love pickled food but never again! It gave me the first AF attack for a year!
But be careful of “the Web”. Any joker could put up a podcast and get it paid for by a sponsor and make money on disinformation. The scarier the better. With my medical background, I can easily parse out garbage. You have to look at the source. It should be a university or a really licensed doctor not a fake one. Chiropractors are not trained to give this type of information. I actually go to the medical literature for deeper information. For the layperson, WebMD is a good start or patient information from a university or medical school..
From WebMD. Tyramine can trigger nerve cells to release norepinephrine, a hormone that increases blood pressure and heart rate. People who already have high blood pressure need to be careful when consuming foods with high tyramine levels.
That is true, The NHS, is a source of good info too, as is Dr Gupta of York Cardiology in the U.K ( my NHS consultant) and he is on You Tube as others have said. I find it best to avoid US medical sites as they are mostly about scaring people into consulting them.
I must watch him
I always know when my Afib is about to start as I have continuous very heavy belching. This usually starts as soon as lay down in bed. 90% of my Af is between 2300 and 0400hrs. If then sit upright for a time I stops, lay down and starts again. My problem is 100% digestion related but my consultant does not seem to take it seriously.
So interesting as I to start with belching then AF . The last two episodes ( I have only had two this year ) have been caused by spicy food
My AF begins exactly the same. As soon as the gas and belching start, l check my pulse and sure enough it’s arrived. There is definitely a connection with the stomach and heart despite your consultant’s opinion. I think it needs to be taken very seriously if we are to be treated properly don’t you?
Yes indeed.
There’s a specialist in York who does a lot of videos on YT. He seems to say to find the digestive problem and you will solve your AF, in cases like ours.
Im unable to even get a consultation via telephone until April next year…….its very frustrating!
How intersting
Ohmygosh I cannot believe this, it's exactly how I am, you've just totally explained what happens to me but my cardiologist just won't have it. It happens after every meal unless I eat very, very slowly, and even then it can come on, why won't any cardiologist at least acknowledge that it's related??. My AF happens at least twice a day, usually after food.
Kimmieblue ......... that's because, unless you are really fortunate, the Cardios are wearing the blinkers they were provided during their studies and training. If it ain't heart they aren't interested. Sure a Gastroenterologist has to do similar studies and training but the gut and digestive system require a different approach, one that may possibly embrace a view of the Vagal Nerve. May also view the relationship, both physical and nerves, with other organs. Just my view, just sayin'. For me, calming the vagal nerve certainly calmed the heart and unless I eat forbidden food it stays calm, kicking off once every 4 or 5 years.
Thank you Ben, I'm absolutely certain that you're right, I'm checking everything I consume to give myself some understanding of what's happening and how it affects me.Fingers crossed.
Best wishes
K.
You’re not. Me too. I gather that the oesophagus and stomach lie in very close proximity to the heart. Peristalsis is what they do, (i.e. they squeeze food and what's left of it along) and this can push and stretch the heart physically. Stretched heart cells are more likely to beat ectopically. This can start an AF episode in those prone to such.
It’s not the food, nor the vagus, simply the natural movement of food through the digestive tract. Some foods will cause stronger peristalsis owing to spiciness, acidity, bulk and similar.
Steve
Thank you Steve!!
thank you. My doctor said the same! I
Agreed, tried every combination of foods zero food etc after 1800hrs but alas I’m unable find the cause! Consultant is telling me to have a Cyroablation saying I’m an ideal candidate!!
It seems to me it’s more digestion related than heart, in my case
All ideas welcome
I have said the same. Digestive issues and the heart go hand-in-hand. In my case, I have a hiatus hernia and a weak stomach sphincter so need PPI tablets daily. This has been "giving me gip" for two months now with nausea and feelings of "pulling" or a “knot” in the centre and left side just under the rib cage: just where the AF and ectopics hit. Digestive issues take an age to settle with me. Why? I don't know. I have IBS, too, with diverticulae in the large bowel, sprinkled all over I was told after my last colonoscopy, with some large ones. Well - that can be ever-lasting at times, or so it seems.
Chicken or egg? I think the answer will never be found out. A reduced blood flow from the heart caused by the arrhythmias (in my case bradycardia, LBBB, ectopic beats and AF) will surely hit the digestive area and affect it, much as it hits the brain and causes fogginess or dizziness; much as it hits the legs and turns them to jelly, and so on.
There are worse things. Some people really suffer. I feel some luck that I cope well.
Steve
Steve
I agree totally
I feel very “lucky “ as my AF (at the moment) gives me very little actual problems other than the fact it’s there in my subconscious or somewhere and it stops me sleeping unfortunately. My consultant keeps telling me my heart is in great shape and that is why AF shows itself in the manner it does.
I would however be quite happy without it……
Keep trusting
Yes - I take a quarter of Zolpidem on many nights to get me back to sleep. I wish I didn’t need to; much as I wish lots of things. But there we are!
We do sound alike!
Steve
Ppiman
Indeed we do
The only thing that does help me sleep is a couple of Stergeron tablets, usually taken in desperation after a couple of sleepless nights! The contents of which are none addictive et etc.
Basically just motion sickness pills, but hey if it works.
I haven't found zolpidem to be at all addictive nor to cause daytime drowsiness. Its weakness is it is so short acting that although it gets me off to sleep, it doesn't keep me there. When I tried something similar to Stugeron, called diphenhydramine, not only didn't it help me get to sleep but I couldn't shake off the drowsy feeling the whole of the next day.
I do wish there were a better way to help insomnia. It's been the bane of my life for such a long time.
Steve
A lot of problems then. Good luck
Oh it can sound so online in a thread but I have a pleasant life compared with some - and many compensations! A six-year-old grandson (“But I’m nearly 7, grandpa!”) is one and a happy family life another.
Steve
I get that pulling sensation too just after eating, or sometines during if I eat too fast. Sometimes it's more of a fluttering right where the diaphragm joins onto the Xiphoid process. I'm guessing that's because the stomach has popped through into the diaphragm. I have to really pay attention- stop what I'm doing, sit up straight and breathe slowly. Then I'll get up and walk around a bit. Usually I can see it off if I do this. As you say Steve, could be worse. Most of the time I manage well and still enjoy my food!
I have never found any way to make it go away. It has a life of its own. Driving can make the feeling of pressure worse, as can sitting; but it passes. It can, I think, affect various things, mentally, even, creating a kind of fogginess. It's a funny old thing and, well - if you look online, there's little to be found of value. It's hard even to find that a hiatus hernia has any symptoms for most sufferers. It might be the acid rather than the hernia, I can see that, but try finding much online about acid reflux. There's not much.
I have learnt more in this thread than I have read in years of looking.
Steve
I think there's info on the British Hearnia society website? Something like that. Back in 2020 when I'd had my 2nd episode of AF and switch meds from Bisoprolol to Flecainide and Diltiazem I had horrendous issues from the Diltiazem. Turns out it exacerbates acid reflux, tends to widen sphincter as well as veins. Bad HH symptoms can mimic a heart attack and I had lots of those. It was the start of my anxiety I believe as there was no help or advice to be had in April 2020. Eventually by talking to friends and reading, I worked out what it was. Mine I think is the sliding type- pops in and out.
HH I gather is far more common than people realise- significant numbers of population over 50 but many won't know - just think it's indigestion.
Hi. I'll have a look at the society's site. I have to say that, oddly, I have missed that. What I meant that was the general comments about HH online when I have looked are that in itself it causes no or few symptoms, except related to acid. I had a neighbour who was rushed to hospital on a few occasions with heart problems that turned out to be pain caused by his HH. Mine, too, is the "sliding" type.
Steve
Bulky foods are my enemy - a healthy bowl of oats or mueseli for breakfast and up goes my HR, so I avoid any form of bulk - I eat small meals and commit the cardinal sin of snacking between meals - I'm only 50kg so I don't worry about my weight, just my disgracefully unbalanced diet - in mitigation, I only drink water !
What a lovely weight. Goodness, I’m twice that (but 190cm so look “slimmish”!). I am slowly but surely trying to get down to 96kg!
Steve
Small meals are fine!!
Large meals make the heart work harder. I have porridge oats for breakfast and not much until an evening meal. I notice that after breakfast and snacking at lunch time, l can start to get palpitations, so it is when my body is “filling up” with food for the day that l can have problems with digestion and ectopics etc. That to me is evidence that there is a link between AF and the stomach,
When I feel “empty” is when mine often start.
Steve
This really is so complex Steve isn’t it? When my stomach is empty the acid has a free run and l get lots of burning in my gullet. so l snack, even if it’s only a dry biscuit, just to calm the acid down. I am also an anxious person which also adds to the acid production. I have just had a course of antibiotics which have upset my stomach and given me even more ectopics than ever, just on bending. I have an appointment on Wednesday with my Cardiologist, who l haven’t seen for a long time. I am really going into this …..,.
I suffer similarly. I believe that the cardiologist I see is a very good doctor and one I have come to trust a great deal. When we discussed this, I was left feeling that he was sure that there was little use in pursuing any connection between my stomach problems and my heart troubles, perhaps in the sense that there's little that could usefully done about it. He especially discounted the "vagus" nerve as any cause of AF at all except in rare circumstances, and he explained in depth why this was not so despite the mass of "information" online content about it.
When your stomach is empty, much as when some are full, then the sphincter ("cardiac" it's called, strangely) is "incompetent" (like mine) and allows a back flow of stomach contents, corrosive acid and enzymes (pepsin and more), into the gullet. The problem is that tiny sphincter. I've looked online for what can be done and, well - there's no easy op and it's not guaranteed.. There are rings, ops to tie the stomach into a knot... all unpleasant sounding and hard going. That's why PPI drugs have been a life saver for me and so many despite sometimes bringing their own problems. So far, I have been lucky with them.
Steve
If you search for this, it's interesting (although a little worrying - but such a rare event, so of no consequence for us):
"Association of atrial fibrillation and gastroesophageal reflux disease: Natural and therapeutic linkage of the two common diseases. Toru Maruyama 1, Mitsuhiro Fukata, Koichi Akashi."
Steve
I get both . I try to avoid eating too much and have resigned myself to leaving stuff on my plate in restaurants. Sometimes I remember to take a little tupperware box to take any left over meat or fish for our 2 visiting cats. But going too long in between meals will set off ectopics and afib as well. My last 2 episodes were after spicy food which has never bothered me before. I have now gone 3 weeks so I am expecting an episode any day!
Thank you most interesting x
Have you considered this might be a blood glucose response? I tracked high HR post my porridge oats or bircher muesli. Oats quickly turn to sugar in the body so if you like them for breakfast it's good to have plenty of nuts and seeds with them, and even some oat bran, ad these offset that effect. When I changed my breakfast routine my morning heart spikes stopped.
Good advice
I only got alerted to this because I was doing the Zoe Programme which includes a blood sugar monitor. One evening I had some really weird symptoms- sweating and shaking and needing to lie down. Husband said I was mumbling a bit - I was having quite a glucose hypo! We fixed that with hot milk amd honey and I had a proper blood glucose test. Then I started digging into my food intake. The main culprit was my 'healthy' organic rice milk. No added sugar but a high GI. Added to the oats and fried fruit in was starting my day with a glucose spike.
So interesting
Thank you but the muesli I eat is the 'nuts and seed variety' with other things as well, so I'm not sure!
Gosh that's so interesting, I must look for more info.
Pickled items are usually a high sodium load For the. Body that can impact the heart.
Thankyou
I had to give up pickles and citrus fruit years ago because of the same problem. I have gastric problems. Anything acidic is a no no. There are three things that accompany AF. Food intolerance, indigestion and anxiety. All intimidation for the vagal nerve to flare up and cause AF.
Interesting thankyou
no
Nope, you're not the only one! Digestive distress is a trigger for many of us, though I think we all respond differently to different foods. For me it's about not eating too much, or too heavy.
Thankyou
Thankyou
It's trial and error where food and drink are concerned. I avoid all ultra processed food, pastry and most meats these days. I also find that I deal with smaller meals better too. Read up on the vagus nerve. That will show a link between digestion and AF. Best wishes.
Thank you . I find I am eating smaller meals too
I haven’t had that issue myself with pickled veggies, but I know that some people find that the acidity can upset their stomach or cause heartburn, which could trigger AF. I’ve had similar problems with certain spicy or acidic foods in the past, so maybe try pairing pickles with something more neutral next time to see if it makes a difference.
Thank you. I shall give them a miss in future!!
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