In AF again. I had gone 2 months without any PAF and stupidly thought that I could somehow “control” the problem by cutting down on alcohol, lifestyle changes etc.. Went to the doctors today to discuss what I thought were indigestion type pains and a slight increase in ectopics over the last 3 days. . The doctor agreed the mild pains were probabaly indigestion but arranged for an ECG tomorrow. Went away at about 1800 feeling reassured. Went to the pub to meet a friend had *no* alcohol but ate a bag of crisps. Noticed a few ectopics but nothing unusual. On getting home I felt a few heavy ectopics and palpitations but wasnt unduly concerned. Got up and went into the kitchen and realised I was in AF (confirmed by Kardia). As always not sure what to do- the mild chest pains today suggest I should call an ambulance, but Kardia shows the heart is going at about 90 (it was a bit higher at one point). I definitely won’t be able to sleep as the fear is that the heart would go dangerously fast whilst asleep. And as always I am worried about whether the PAF has become permanent or persistent. Then there will be days of worry wondering why he thing has come back.
In AF again: In AF again. I had gone... - Atrial Fibrillati...
In AF again
Stomach & heart are very closely linked therefore indigestion’s is the most probable trigger. It may be helpful to look more closely at what you are eating and the balance of your diet. Sugar can be just as problematic as alcohol and I’m not sure that the crisps would have helped.
Many but not everyone can manage AF with lifestyle changes so it’s not stupid to think that way, it’s just a lot more complex than we imagine and doesn’t work for everyone. Lifestyle = stress management, exercise, sleep as well as what you eat.
Best wishes CD
Everything you have said here makes sense. I am going to have to be much more disciplined about eating. I noticed some mild reflux creeping up on me over the last few days- hence the visit to the doctors yesterday. The symptoms are suggestive of vagal AF once again. And again, the PAF nearly always appears in the evening. I just hope this isn’t going to start occurring more frequently again.
I gave up drinking and started eating more healthily, but following a recent PAF out of the blue I worked backwards and realised it must have been " Silent Stress " , creeping in during the course of a week or more, from the wind-up cold call, a reminder of an outstanding balance, a slight knock on the car door , worrying about one of the grown up kids being poorly or a cancelled hospital appointment, all very small in their own way, but put together enough to tip the scale in conjunction with perhaps a bad nights sleep. We are all so different but perhaps we don't appreciate what stress can really do to us, and I don't mean major stress that is far more easy to identify, I have just started a course on Breathing and that is helping me, something we take for granted but when done properly it can really help all kinds of issues. Good luck going forward.
I agree that lots of small stressful events can have a cumulative effect, and those , with the unhealthy eating, might have precipitated the AF. It went back into rhythm after a few hours and was mostly below 100, but the worry is always that it’s taken a turn for the worse and will start to appear more regularly.
Hi Samazeuilh,
I could relate to your post so much. It’s so frustrating when you make changes and start to feel like you might have figured it all out for it to come back with no rhyme or reason. You go over what you did and start wondering if you somehow caused it to spark off by eating crisps etc. I agree that healthy lifestyle and diet is of vital importance in minimising arrhythmias but I also think that when your heart is wired up that way it always has the potential to be triggered even if your diet and lifestyle are perfect. My heart has been reacting really badly to eating for a number of years and it has gotten debilitating in the last 6 months. I am constantly trying to figure out what sparks it off and always trying to deal with the disappointment when all my efforts are in vain and my heart starts pounding after a sip of water.
I hope you have good care and have been seen by an EP to discuss your treatment options going forward.
I also hope this episode has settled down overnight and you are feeling better.
Take good care x
Well, it’s planned that I have an ablation too- but I was told that I will have to be on an anticoagulant for at least three months before it is possible. That’s why I was interested when you said that you were only taking Flecainide before your procedure. I am still waiting for an appointment with the opthalmologist to see if I can take an anticoagulant (previously it caused a subconjunctival haemorrhage- it wasn’t serious
but implied there might be a risk of bleeding to the brain). So, in theory, I might not be able to have an ablation. This would be a dire outcome, as it is really the only way of dealing with this problem as you know.
Your prodcedure sounds like it has gone really well - the EP would not have made the positive comments that he made unless he was very confident at it had worked. Take it easy.
On one of my previous posts the question came up about why I wasn’t being anticoagulated before my procedure. It sparked real concern amongst everyone. I had asked my EP and he said I didn’t need it but a lot of people felt very uncomfortable with that and felt I might be at risk. Eventually with the help of Kaz and talking to the EP secretary it was explained to me that as I have no other risk factors like blood pressure, weight or existing conditions and my ablation was for SVT it could be done safely without anticoagulating before the procedure. He has given me 7 days worth of anticoagulants to take now as he said that the procedure carries a small risk of a blood clot developing.
I hope so much that you can get the treatment you need and they ok you for an ablation. Please let me know how you get on.
Are you feeling any better today?
Thanks. As always with PAF I feel fine afterwards (although I still have the mild indigestion-type pain) ; in fact I don’t feel bad during the episodes themselves apart from he anxiety. My concerns are that this is just the opening round of what is a progressive condition and that it may go persistent/permanent. I also worry about a stroke during the PAF. According to the GP the going into or coming out of the irregular rhythm makes PAF dangerous. And the fact that I do not experience breathlessness doesn’t make it less dangerous either apparently.
As I sit here on hols I am full off good intentions. I am fascinated by the gut microbiome and how it affects the body. It has great bearing on the vagus nerve which I think a lot of us realiise needs careful management.
Salty food bloats me a lot and the additives in carbonated drinks can also cause issues. I am trying to hydrate with water more but drink far too much decaff tea and coffee as a rule. Realised yesterday I can reduce to 3 breaths per min
That’s interesting. I drink a lot of decaff coffee too- it didn’t occur to
me that that was a problem until I read your post. I will have to be much more disciplined
about eating and drinking following this. I just hope that the frequency of the PAF is not going to go up.
I avoid decaf anything - I think it is much worse than good organic green tea or coffee. I never have problems with those.
I drink white tea as it is low in tannin and caffeine. It’s expensive but you can reinfuse the leaves several times. The Chinese discard the first infusion which is what I often do- this may sound rather fussy, but perhaps it’s making a virtue out of a necessity: it takes out a lot of the caffeine. I was told by one consultant not to drink alcohol, tea or coffee at all, but another consultant said this was a bit excessive. The thought of not even being able to drink a cup of tea, is truly depressing.
I had a feeling green tea to be avoided with anticoagulants, might have dreamt it but I stopped drinking it and miss it will have to Google or if you reply just take your advice!
I do recall reading something about green tea and anticoagulant too. I don’t think there is an absolute bar on it however. White tea is not geeen tea however, so you might be ok with that particularly if you discard the first infusion.
From The Republic of Tea:
“How Much Caffeine is in Tea?
On average, a six-ounce cup of black tea has about 50 milligrams of caffeine—less than half the amount in a standard cup of brewed coffee. A similarly-sized cup of oolong tea contains approximately 30-40 milligrams of caffeine, while green tea contains roughly 20-30 milligrams. White tea contains the smallest amount of caffeine of all “true” teas (i.e. those made from the Camellia sinensis plant)—just 15-20 milligrams per cup.
Herbal teas (also called tisanes) such as chamomile, hibiscus, and peppermint teas are naturally caffeine-free. One exception is yerba mate, which contains around half the amount of caffeine per cup found in a similar-sized cup of coffee.”
You could reduce the caffeine content of a white tea further if you discard the first infusion (which requires a high quality tea).
Thank you Hidden
Caffeine in itself is much less of a problem than any herbicides/pesticides which may have been used during growth.
Caffeine in the plant is a natural insecticide so in coffee you can get natural, coffee beans - they tend to be the ones from the top of the plant - but you will pay as they are normally quite expensive.
It’s tannin in black tea which upsets me - however even that has benefits as it kills off and suppresses a lot of harmful gut bacteria. Green tea is an anti-oxidant & I’ve never seen anything about anti-coagulants - and I don’t think I’m going to worry about even if there is. I already take a lot of stuff that some say you shouldn’t & I have queried it with my herbalist, nutritionist & doctor & none quote any studies or evidence which show a negative affect.
I think we all react very differently & need to trust our own body signals & experiences.
All but one of my 6 afib attacks have occurred after events that have potentially affected my gut microbiome. 3 after antibiotics , one after colonoscopy and one after major bowel surgery. To be fair there were other factors after the latter such as low blood sugar and dehydration, not to mention overdoing my Ventolin inhaler to try and cope with the post op mucous!
Yes. After antibiotics good bacteria really messed up and up to 10 varieties never repopulate!!
You ate CRISPS, crisps she screeches in a high pitched voice! Oh Sam, never eat them again! When you next go to the pub, have still bottled water and sit smugly in front of your friend and say righteously that you're on a diet.
How are you feeling now?
Jean
I’m much better thanks- the PAF only lasted for about three hours. I have had a few ectopics and mild chest pain today, but the ECG showed nothing. I’m hoping that it will not reoccur again for a while. You are right about the crisps. I really have to be much more disciplined about eating bad foods like this. Thanks so much for your reply.
I wouldn't worry about a heart rate of about 90bpm. That's my normal rate. I have permanent AF, mainly asymptomatic. Coffee, including decaff, and all forms of soya were triggers in my case. Permanent AF in itself is no problem. I take Warfarin as my preferred anticoagulant.
My heart went well beyond 90 bpm during an operation to take my appendix out. A well-meaning hospital doctor put me on a beta blocker which has caused me to start with urticaria, intermittent but regular painful itchy rashes throughout my body. Although I use a washing powder which is highly recommended by allergy and eczema organisations I think I've developed an allergic reaction to it. I've managed 5 hours sleep tonight and now I will be awake for 5 hours until I get up.
Paroxysmal AF can be an awful feeling, and is much more worse in what it feels like compared to mainly asymptomatic permanent AF. But I remind myself that it is not in itself life theatrning.
Last September I was determined to pay homage to my uncle on the centenary of his death. He enlisted in the Grimsby Chums at the age of 15 in 1914. He enlisted not just for King and Country, but also to give his mother and siblings a regular income when his father, who suffered from alcoholism, abandoned his family.
I feared that going by Eurostar, going down into a tunnel under the sea would cause my heart to go haywire. It didn't, as there was no sensation of going downhill.
I knew that buses to the area of the cemetery were few and far between. I determined to walk the five miles back to Bapaume. I feared I might collapse on the way. I have lymphodema in my lower legs and have asthma.
I made it in a slow 2 hours. As for the heart it just carried on beating in perminent AF.
Thanks very much for your reply. There is some caffeine in decaffeinate coffee but some here have suggested it may be something other than the caffeine which triggers AF in some people. I’m glad that you were ble to make a successful trip to Bapaume.
I am sure it's not the caffeine, as when I had paroxysmal AF I could happily drink pints of cola and lots of caffeinated tea but no coffee. I haven't had any coffee for eleven years.
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