Hi I am new here. I am a clinical immunologist MD with a history of AF. I have accomplished conversion of my AF to SR with a protocol that will likely be dismissed because the general attitude towards magnesium is we heard it all before. If you take a few minutes I would like you to read my bio which tells my story which basically explores why and how Mg administered scientifically with some other features was able to convert my AF with a 2 yr history to SR to date for 19 months.
Hugheart
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Hugheart
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It's pretty easy to find your book using a Google search with the information you've already given. I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tried - might even order a copy on Amazon😉
It's nice to have a medic join the HU ranks. I think we all agree that it's possible to manage AFib with the help of magnesium and lifestyle changes. For sure, magnesium deficiency plays a role regarding Afib. I think we are all in agreement with that.
Alas - it's not that simple.
Everyone on this forum is different. What works for one doesn't work for others. Adjusting magnesium and potassium levels is a good idea but many have tried using this method without success. It may help manage AFib but IMO is not a cure - no way. The Wolf Mini Maze is the closest you'll get 'curing' Afib.
Great Bio and I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Thx for your comments. Two things I agree on. First it isn’t a cure as I have had recurrences as I mentioned. Second I can only describe my own story but being scientifically oriented unless my protoplasm is unique I believe the protocol could be tested if the cardiology specialty would do a proof of principle testing with a few individuals with AF or even better a RCT,
Ty for a quick response. I'm off to bed now as my bed is calling. I'll give a more detailed break down about my thoughts tomorrow. I'm always more alert in the mornings (only when I've had my coffee heh heh).
I would be interested in your opinion as to why this is not promoted amongst the medical profession?
Unfortunately I am someone for whom oral Magnesium is contraindicated as I have Myasthenia gravis - but I do use Topical Magnesium oil and have found that it can be quite helpful for helping steady my heart when it gets what I call ‘twitchy’ but it doesn’t stop AF.
I don’t have any experience with topical Mg but if I had to guess it’s pharmacokinetics are such that it is poorly absorbed and doesn’t achieve therapeutic blood Mg levels. In my bio I discuss Mg supplements and it’s a major chapter in my book which until I get permission I am reluctant to mention its title. Your question why oral Mg is not promoted by cardiologists is an interesting one. It has in part to do with studies using Mg sulfate infusions which produce inconsistent results. Mg sulfate infusions have a half life of 12 hours and are administered for only a few days. In my book I mention one of the most underappreciated medical observations, namely the half life of Mg in a human is 6 weeks. AF individuals have pre-existing Mg deficiency in their heart cells so it will take several 6 week half lives of Mg to replenish Mg in heart cells of AF . In my case it took 24 weeks before I converted to SR.
I don’t know if you have heard of a UK GP - Dr Sarah Myhill? She theorised that the drop in Magnesium levels in land which had been intensely farmed was a major cause of Magnesium deficiency. Unfortunately she was demonised for going against most medical opinion of the day (circa 2010). She also believed that magnesium levels could be increased by Epsom Salt bathing - which is what I do once a week.
You might be interested in looking at her website drmyhill co uk. She has been brought up in front of the GMC several times but thankfully cleared of all accusations. Reading the transcripts sort of gives one an indication of just how divided the medical fraternity can be and makes one wonder at why billions of dollars are spent on developing drugs which nearly always result in side effects and virtually nothing in nutrition, clean agricultural practices and biodiversity.
I don’t know if yo have also come across quite an interesting site which sells Magnesium but also has quite useful information Ancient Minerals com
Dr Sinatra was also a great advocate for mineral supplements - his son, a nutritionist, continues his work.
Well done you - and there are always ways around not providing links or names. I don’t think any of us are breaking rules by naming books we have found helpful - eg: Dr John Day’s book - The AFib Cure.
Sure. It's expensive if you need to go to the US or Japan to have it done. Some forum members have paid for it and have had much success. Start your reseach here:
Hi Paulbounce, just wanted to say many thanks for the link to that excellent article. I've always been curious about this procedure and look forward to watching the embedded videos. These are the kind of information I like to read about and study. Factual information. Best wishes.
When I was admitted my first time to the ER with a heart rate of 135 bpm for half the day with the ecg saying AFl/AF, I was given a bolus of diltiazem, which lowered my heart rate and I eventually converted to sinus rhythm. After this jolt to my system and when I was at home, I read that IV magnesium can also be used in a case like mine, but it seems to be rarely the first-line choice. It also said that ERs prioritize fast-acting drugs like diltiazem to hopefully stabilize the AFl quickly—the priority is to free up beds? But in the weeks after, I still felt large thumps and rapid beats which was from my heart being stressed by the episode. I started to wonder if a bolus of IV magnesium instead—or in addition—have been more beneficial overall for my long-term heart health and sinus rhythm stability at least for those initial weeks given magnesium’s role in reducing inflammation.
It seems the focus is on faster-acting interventions, with a lack of awareness. I think that, along with my apixaban prescription at discharge that day, I should have also received one for magnesium.
What I find interesting and along a different line here is that when my mother had her first stroke—besides the critical role of pharmaceuticals, her doctor also gave a complementary prescription for vitamin D and magnesium.
The current attitude towards administering Mg infusions and oral Mg is that they do not produce consistent results.An editorial in a cardiology journal reviewed a number of studies using Mg sulfate infusions and the results were so inconsistent that the title of the. editorial was
‘Magnesium therapy for atrial fibrillation: Myth or Magic ‘ . The title couldn’t have been more negative. Today Mg therapy is essentialy minimized for Mg infusions and not mentioned for oral Mg supplementation.
The orientation is fully towards medications, electrical cardioversion and surgery , especially cardiac ablation. The idea of reconsidering scientific administration of oral Mg is not in the cardiology vocabulary and based on my experience described in my protocol I humbly believe there is a place for properly administered select oral Mg supplementation.
My best friend, a retired, and very experienced cardiologist, calls the cathlabs ‘the cash cows of cardiology and hospitals’. He has paroxysmal AF himself and would NEVER consider an ablation. My own feeling is that these very invasive and damaging procedures are offered far too quickly and too often.
it was good to read this from you because I had an incredible EP who is now the director of electrophysiology at a very university in Florida. You should see the things he is already working on. He created a pacemaker for me just two years ago even the tech from the company referred to me as unique she was involved with from the OR and still is today checking my device. There was one issue that turned out not to really be an issue. It was more like a badly kept secret in which one of the engineers from the got involved with my tech, on the telephone
my EP was not always the favorite child of the hospital where he had been with because he feels the same about ablations. The odds of getting the right spot are minimal. The scarring, etc. from them are not all that great quality of life, regardless of what people think. Yes some people are lucky. I consider them Band-Aids and sooner or later they will fall off. I will nice to get a break from a fib. If you get it I had for six months one almost a year then I had another that failed horribly. I could write a book on what it did to me, including taking away my ability to walk the EP/ had what he did to me. I ended up with tachycardia close to 200 constantly for six months. I could not even get a from him
The attitude about ablation that my EP feels is it is nothing but a morning maker and they did everything to try to make doctors do them along with a few other things . He attempted a cardioversion. It failed miserably. Later he explained he would not even consider another ablation because of the heavy scarring on my heart, and I also developed heart failure after the horrible ablation in Houston. You wouldn’t mind but the doctor that did. It is supposed to be a rockstar. He is located at a hospital here one of the best in the world. I do not have typical or even atypical a fib. It’s almost as if someone put together wrong. All four chambers are involved among other things and yet I never knew until I was in my 60s.
bravo the people are beginning to recognize a simple ablation is useless for the most part. It is also not clarified to people that the ablation does not fail. means another spot opened up to create more a fib flutter. Just like the electrical wiring in your house, a spot could go bad you could have it fixed and then later on another spot in a different part of the house needs to be fixed.
it’s only my opinion but I find many doctors seem to follow a protocol and never updated with what is possible no they think outside the box they just play it safe or do they?
if my EP had done that I probably would not be here today but instead two years ago, I got my special pacemaker from my special EP and I am here because of it.
we are all different. This doesn’t mean do not work for some, but I feel as though many doctors have a list numbered one through whatever on what to try first what use then go to the next one I found with one doctor in particular he did not treat me like a patient. He just his. I am even finding GPs the same thing now I couldn’t tell you the last time I had my temperature taken. It’s almost as though they do not want to touch you at all most of the time I feel like they expect me to give them the answer
I love this site because I see people with their eyes wide open paying attention and learning. I also see people that need a doctor to teach them a little bit more about what they have and that there is no cure so they need and realize our learning curve is probably forever. I like the saying, how do you eat an elephant the answer is one bite at a time and I find a fib is an elephant. You can only learn so much at a time and they can only do so much for you at a time there is no cure, but we have incredible doctors who want us to have quality of life. Those doctors don’t care how old we are they want us to live happily and do not brush us off.
thinking of all my a fib family out here don’t give up as I said. I just saw some new things that incredible former EP is working on and teaching as I write this.
mind and body connection and positivity can go a long way
Thank you for this testimonial. Glad you found an EP with common sense. I’m sure one day ablations will be looked upon as ‘barbaric’. But for some people it can be a temporary fix, that’s for sure. Not for me though. I do not like gambling. Unless the odds are massively in my favor,
Hi I have been diagnosed with Afib and keep hearing about magnesium being something we should be taking. I have no thyroid so am taking thyroid medication, is it safe to take these with mag, and the Afib medication. Thank you any advice would be great. Cate
My brother also has no thyroid. A few years back he was experiencing palpitations & booked a review with a cardiologist. After the usual tests that found nothing wrong, the Cardiologist prescribed daily magnesium which he has been taking since then.
Thank you I will definitely go on the magnesium see if it helps. I have been diagnosed with Afib three weeks ago, was very unhappy about that. But am fighting back now. Thank you for your help.Cate
Thank you Paul, yes definitely was in shock, it enough my Twin sister has been diagnosed in December, I said to the doctor at the hospital after my ECG it could be worse my sister has AFib, and she said so do you. Wasn't laughing then. I am sure after week Monday when get this echo scan and fingers crossed no other problems or heart failure is my concern, my Dad had that. I can just keep going and get on with it. many thanks Cate. Have a good Sunday.
AFib can be heredity - sounds like it is in your case. My gut feeling is your echo scan won't show heart failure or anything like that. I can't promise anything of course but I would place a bet that will be the outcome. Want to put a quid on it😉
HF sounds frightening. It's not as bad as it sounds - it simply means your heart is not pumping blood as effectively as it should do. Meds and lifestyle changes will help with this.
Yes bet on Paul, thank you for your help really appreciated. But I have a feeling something else wrong, always thought I was tough and strong and fit,.but I won't let it define me. Will keep going. Have great Sunday. Cate
Paul I agree with you about HF. when my EP told me as we were discussing why I needed a pacemaker the word heart failure made me feel cold inside. It was terrifying. There was heart failure in my family. I say. there was because they are all gone now. It took them in different ways FYI my mother included, although the root cause of hers was cancer. I was so ignorant about a fib. It did not scare me in the beginning nor does it now. my heart failure did as you mentioned the pumping was not right. In fact, it was so bad that I could not walk and had very little feeling from the knee down. When I tried to stand up the pain in my chest brought tears to my eyes. My brain was foggy nothing was right. I had no real appetite and just sitting I could get pain not even moving. I truly thought it was the end or maybe I hoped it was at that point.
to anyone with heart failure I want to give you something good to know. It can actually be reversed I know because my after the pacemaker. The day I arrived to the hospital I was in a wheelchair and the day I I was in but the difference was the second time was hospital policy. When we got to the I was able to stand up and get into my car by myself. I had an 82 heart rate compared to almost 200 on a constant basis for well over six months after the last ablation. By the way, it was an unusual ablation including the use of Ethyl alcohol and balloons. Oh, you could read about it I still don’t get it other than it almost killed me.
my ejection rate at the time was in the 40s after after the pacemaker it was in the 70s I’m not sure which follow up that was, but it was relatively quick and I could feel the difference. According to my former EP, even people without heart problems would be happy to have my numbers. He is a young man, but whenever we met and he went over things with I would actually get a little smile.
a fib, heart failure, etc. are not the end of the world
I had a magnesium infusion for AF during the Brighton marathon. It didn’t have an immediate impact. I converted the next morning which was my usual pattern. But I do take magnesium tablets as I found they had a big impact on my ectopics.
I’m very interested in this, Hugheart. I hope you will be allowed to point us to your book, as I haven’t been able to find it via Google, unlike Paulbounce. I’ve known for years that supplementing magnesium daily makes a massive difference to my overall health. I’d love to discover what dose/type of magnesium could possibly be used to keep my AF at bay.
I’ve had AF for 32 years and for the first 29 years on average only once every 5 years then in 2022 I’ve had about 4 more episodes. My lifestyle revolves around being fit and eating a great Mediterranean diet all my life. I’ve had my bloods done on 2023 and found I was low in Magnesium and Vitd3 so I started supplementing. I also read that coq10 is most abundant in our hearts and that when we get to 60 it doesn’t synthesise as well so I figured get those bloods done as well. I was also low so started supplementing that as well. I believe the older we get the synthesis of these essentials slow down and that’s one of the reasons AF progresses as we get older
I welcome your ideas to the forum and look forward to your contributions
I have taken magnesium taurate for the last couple of years after a first ablation and have had a reduced frequency of Af.I also take a low dose of CoQ10 and take vitamin D tablets because of osteoporosis. Thank you for your input which gives food for thought.
Magnesium yes, the particular compound is subject to some debate with Mg Taurate probably favoured most here. I take Nutri Megamag Muscleze, check out the great mix of heart supplements in that compound!
Co Q10 yes.
Why: My Naturopath said both need to be in the upper quartile of the normal range if not higher for some individuals. I started these on diagnosis and had virtually zero episodes over 10 years, 2 half hour ones due to common triggers; albeit I have also taken 200mgs Flecainide.
Current protocol: I reduced both supplements and coincidentally or not the AF has come back 7% of the time. I have therefore this month stepped up both again and will post here if I get a favourable outcome.
Hi, you mentioned you had taken 200mgs Flecanide. In January my NHS consultant has increased my dosage to 200mgs flec daily - I was previously on 15mg daily for 6 months continous. I also take 240mg Diltiazem daily. This regime was prescribed following 3 emergency cardioversions for an af heart rate of up to 240bpm, in June 2023, June 2024 and July 2024. I'm told there is no way I can get off these drugs now without further life threatening attacks. I'm 54 now; I was 52 at the time of my first attack of AF. I have lost approximately 15% of my body weight and I'm exercise intolerant. I do worry about the long term effects of the drugs, but I have not been offered surgery as an alternative.
The long term effects of taking Flecainide are likely to be a lot less than not taking it provided your kidneys are functioning OK. I have been taking 200mgs Flec for 12 years now with no known direct side effect, although I do think it may have affected my sleep pattern and anxiety level.
Hi, thanks for sharing your insight and experience on this subject. That is helpful and puts things into context. Good to hear you are managing OK on your regime. Thanks
Dr Gupta who is a cardiologist at York Hospital in the UK has been promoting magnesium for many years now, particularly mag taurate. Lots of good advice from him available on you tube as well as on York Cardio website.
Btw 27 years sick sinus /af. 3 ablations on 3rd pacemaker. Various meds which caused side effects. Now on nebivolol 5 mg. I started on mag oxide 11 years ago and even that helped. But now on a good combi. Nutrition geeks or fullnesium. Af less than 2% now. Medics seem to be suspicious of mag. Sleep apnoea also needs checking. Common with af
It was really interesting to read how magnesium has helped you, Thankyou. I started talking magnesium glycenate and magnesium taurate throughout each day and have done so consistently for the last three years. I think it has had a calming effect and may have helped my ectopics too but my episodes were fairly infrequent anyway, but they didn’t stop my AF unfortunately. My magnesium levels were not below the minimum, but were only just in the normal range before I began taking it.
I don’t seem to absorb magnesium very well though, as my levels, despite taking a total of around 550 mg per day ( which is higher than recommended for a woman) are still just over the lower limit of magnesium serum in my blood. I am nervous of taking more than that, as everything points to the amount being too much already, but I’m not below the minimum level, so will just stay on the dose I am for now.
Do you take mag taurate with complete C well away from taking or eating anything with iron? I believe that mag and iron taken near each other inhibits the absorption of both.
I take a vitamin C supplement along with my magnesium in my morning dose, with my breakfast, which always contains calcium/fruit. My second dose is usually after lunch and my last just before I go to bed, 2-3 hrs after eating.
I’m a pescatarian and my diet is probably not iron rich ( though I’m not anaemic) and I don’t take any iron supplements. I know vitamin C affects iron absorption as my husband has to avoid too much iron, but I didn’t know magnesium was also affected, but I don’t think that’s an issue with me, so unfortunately I can’t blame that I don’t think.
Hello Hugheart, I see you're not recommending this protocol for symptomatic AF individuals as a replacement for conventional interventions.
I agree, having persistent AFib, I couldn't try a regimen that requires weeks for results unless continuing my meds. My symptoms (exhaustion, dizziness, shortness of breath, sleepless nights, racing bpm) are debilitating without beta and channel blockers.
I believe for me, (or most anyone else, where other treatments haven't worked or want to get off the meds) after going thru a half dozen cardioversions and a failed RF ablation, having the WMM or WOP is my best hope.
I had the WMM 4.5 months ago and I'm 3 consecutive months in NSR now, off blood thinners since the surgery and in the tapering phase off my other 2 meds.
Hello mav7, there is a Facebook group (The Wolf Procedure - live AFib Free) that has many helpful links and resources. The members there are eager to help and answer questions or concerns.
Just request to join and in one or 2 days you will be accepted.
For what it's worth I started taking magnesium early last year with no effect but then I stopped taking ppis which were prescribed in error and now most days I am a fib free. I think ppis affect the absorption of among other minerals magnesium.
Following a stomach bleed, I was prescribed omeprazole and took it daily for 18 years prior to my first AF episode. I still take 20mg a day. I would love to come off this and have tried many times without success as gastro symptoms returned quickly. Discussed the potential link with mineral malabsorbtion with GP and Consultant, but they have advised to continue due to the previous peptic disease. Thinners seem to be off limits for me for the same reason.
I took nexium for years and ignored warnings about using them permanently. I had a stroke in 2023. The consultant said stroke probably due to a fib which didn'trealisei had. I was put on omeprazole 40mg and anticoagulants and bisop and was a fib permanently but asymptomatic so no big deal. I read about magnesium and discussed it with doctor who took me off omeprazole. So low and behold a fib began to lessen somewhat and now it has lessened to about two or three times a month. I have also been taking taurine and l-arginine.
Thanks for sharing your positive experience with that. Glad to hear it helped. I would love to wean off the PPIs. I think they may help to lessen inflammation in my stomach so that's difficult. I will look into any alternative options though.
Hi sorry for jumping in I just wanted to say there are some fantastic PPI help groups out there. For some/many they are very very hard to discontinue, not because there is an inherent problem merely due to withdrawals.
My husband had to open his capsules (lansoprazole) and remove 1 “pearl” at a time. Also supported the gut with natural supplements. It took months and still after coming off completely it took time for gut to stabilise.
Best of luck and please if you do attempt to ween off go “stupidly slow” until you are sure you are not seeing withdrawals. Eva
Hi, thank you for your input on this. I have also considered opening the capsules and very, very slowly reducing the dosage. How is your husband now? I hope it's working OK for him by now. Thanks again
Hi yes now all good (and on apixaban and other heart meds). Reckon he’s been off completely for a couple of years now.
In short it took a few years as on various hospital visits they always put him back on (after a stroke etc) so bless him he had to ween many times.
We also the last time used a H2 blocker (Famotidine) say halfway through the process, that meant he then had to ween off that too but it seemed an ok step and lots of people do this.
Also think his friends were slippery elm and marshmallow root and aloe vera juice for sure.
And there are many combination products out there to support the gut.
Definitely not medical advice just from our experience I would say be cautious with the main probiotics as if your gut is sensitive it can react (more bloating, gripe etc).
Something like the soil based ones or Sacc B (yeast) or Bacillus coagulans can often be better tolerated.
Same goes for prebiotics, they can be too much for the gut early on and feed the bad guys as well as the good guys.
Oh one more, he now takes digestive enzymes with each meal - something like Enzymedica Digest Gold or Now Super Enzymes.
I hope you get to where you want to be, it sure is a big jigsaw, Eva
Thank you for sharing the helpful info. I'm glad to hear he managed toget off PPIs and is doing well. Just a quick follow up. I have halved my PPI dosage and am starting on a 20mg Famitodine every evening to help wean off. Thanks again, Best wishes Pete
Pete that is great news and sounds a sensible strategy. Thank you for sharing. Here’s hoping you can step by step reduce the PPI and then look to move on from there with the Famotidine and future gut health.
I read your autocardiography with keen interest, as I just self-prescribed magnesium for myself after my 3rd a-fib episode this year. I'm to see my Cleveland Clinic professional on Friday and will ask their assessment. Thanks for your post.
Hi Hugheart, im glad you are in SR, if i understand right you have a 2 year history of AF, 24 months, i have paf going on approx 35 years, in those early years i had long gaps in SR sometimes up to and over 2 years, my point been that 19 months in SR is not a sure deal that you will never have AF again, i hope you never do, i have supplemented with magnesium and on occasions potassium also, to no avail for over 20 years and i continue with magnesium today but i never felt any benefit on SR.I now have ever increasing paf every 5-6 days approx ,lasting longer in duration.
Hi Hugheart - I have been taking two types of Magnesium for about a year and believe it has reduced the frequency of my Paroxysmal AF.
I am convinced that MY AF is salt related - I can document that I had excessive sodium intake on my last two AF, in one instance around triple the over 55 recommendation (Pizza, around 4,600 mg)
and I think that it was excessive sodium, intake for any of my AF. (trying to replace electrolytes due to dehydration and heat)
Is there a relationship between sodium and magnesium? Does too much sodium unbalance the magnesium? Or was it the dehydration just reducing all electrolytes and taking magnesium with it.
Thank you! I have noticed when I increase my magnesium and potassium my heart does settle down more. By potassium, I mean OJ which has lots of potassium in it and also the small cans of V-8 low salt has about 600mg potassium. I ordered your book and hope I got the correct one but pretty sure I did. It has binoculars on the cover. 👍
Also, my EP told me years ago to start taking 1000mg a day of magnesium temporarily. This is when I first went to him because of ectopics, way before I had A-fib. He said I should notice a difference in a few weeks and that it took awhile to start working. He said I’ll know if I take too much because I'll have diarrhea. Then I gradually went down to about 500mg a day. The last few years I went down to 200 to 300 mg but recently started having worse arrhythmias again. So I have increased it again realizing it may take awhile to see the benefit. So everything you said seems to make sense, at least in my case.
Thanks Hugheart. It is definitely worth reading so I will check it out. At least you have done some of your own research and application while applying your own knowledge of the body. That's very useful.
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