I am sure it’s connected to food and the vagus nerve.?
5 times it has happened after lunch , today was after a protein bar and decaf coffee mid afternoon.
HR goes up to 100 which is low I know and then tends to hover around late 70s for ages,
I take 2 x 100mg flecanide , BP meds, Blood thinners..apixaban . I am currently in France and have rebooked my return trip home a week early so I can see a dr. I have previously been signed off by cardiologist at the hospital. Also on statins, no antacids. Been taking on apixaban and bP I think for 10 months Flecanide for 3 yrs.
I have also got a cough first thing in the morning,not a lot..but it’s there for half hr and in the night if I wake for a wee..which is normal.
Thinking this is silent reflux…causing acid ..and irritates vagus nerve hence episode ?
I am fortunate in that I don’t feel ill…I can feel my heart fluttering about and have to have a wee every 15 mins, episodes lasting about 8 hrs average
I have taken my flecanide early and also an electrolyte tablet.
Can anyone give me some advice..what to do, what not to eat..what to say when I see dr as they don’t ‘do’ hearts as a rule and just fob you off with a referral to cardio at the hospital and May get an appt probably by phone by next summer ,
Help..really really fed up. 🥹🥹
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Peacockmumma
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Sorry to read of your plight. Perhaps you could try thinking carefully about what you eat. I mean really think because it might not be food per se .... BUT .... INGREDIENTS !
So for a start you could try eliminating wheat, oats, barley etc. etc. ... even traces of said ingredients. To be honest talking to a GP is a waste of time - better off talking to a Nutritionist ... suggest you go to the B.A.N.T. website and do some research. They have a search box so you may be able to find one nearby to where you live. But you might also need to look at non grain foods too. Drinks too. Remember - whatever goes down the neck has the potential to cause trouble with the gut and potentially the vagal nerve.
Have you tried keeping a food diary so that you can identify cause and effect .......... like, what you eat at each meal, which meal affects you the worst, and the time of day you eat, especially you last meal of the day.
I too am sure I have Vegus nerve involvement - mine occurs after breakfast if I eat something like oats or muesli or if I'm too heavy handed with plain yoghurt, My HR goes up to the late 90s (haven woken up in the mid sixties). My Cardio has me on Biso (as needed) and I imediately take 1,25mg when my HR is knocking on 100's door. It calms down quickly and seems to avert AF. It may just be coincidence, but it does not happen at other meals which are varied and small, I also eat things like biscuits between meals (I am a low weight, but really they are not the most sensible thing to eat, but as an 81 year old who drinks nothing more exciting than water, does not smoke or snort cocaine, I think' Why not'.
So sorry - it sounds like you need expert advice as soon as you can get it. So when you get back would you consider asking your doctor for a private referral to a good cardiologist (usually around £200 - 250). That may be the best way to get expert attention quickly with time to discuss your issues, they'll probably plug you back into nhs for follow up ...
In the meantime, have you tried deep breathing, it can calm the heart down particularly if it's a vagus nerve issue. Take a very deep breath in, relaxing the belly, expanding the diaphragm, fill your lungs right up, hold for a second and then very very slowly let the breath out .. keep doing this for several minutes - then take a break and breathe naturally - then start the deep breathing again. At the very least it calms the mind ... it's the long slow controlled outbreath that calms things down.
Hi! What kind of cough do you get in the morning? Is it irritating, dry cough, where you can not resist the drive to cough? If so, it definitely is caused by irritated Vagus-nerve. Have you hit the idea of having developed small hiatus hernia yet? The reaction to small quantities of food may be caused by the pressure it exerts on the heart and on the esophagus (Vagus-nerve).
I recall having oatmeal and later in the night I had afib..who knew. If this was the cause.. I recently started sotalol in early September. Had afib last for 36 hours which started November 1st and quit November 2nd..had couple of Halloween chocolates, the very small ones. Hmmmm likely cause ??????
Hi peacockmumma. Sorry to hear AF has spoilt your holiday and you are needing to return home early. I have AF and diagnosed IBS too and am convinced that food and stress are triggers for both together with irritated vagus nerve. I agree with the breathing technique suggested here and suggest you look at the dreaded Google for ways to calm the vagus nerve. I know singing, gargling etc can help. Also mindfulness and mindful breathing. I am looking to go on holiday again, hopefully long haul, following surgery for something else and recovery. I will do lots of that in the hope the stress, change of diet etc will not trigger IBS/AF. Hope you feel better soon.
Vagally triggered for sure. Stress exacerbates it. Try to avoid stress. Eat small, light meals, but with enough carbohydrates. Stay hydrated and, if your doctor agrees, stop the Flecainide. You can use 300mg. as ‘pill in pocket’ when an episode starts.
But, most importantly: don’t worry. With a HR of 70-ish you could even have permanent AF and live to be 100 with it. My dear mother reached 94 with the condition. So relax!
thank you.. I’m. It stressed but I know my body inside may say oh yes I am,lol
I am trying a smaller lunch. Perhaps no snacks 3 hrs later… I eat a lot of protein , little fat and only good carbs,,brown basmati rice and whole wheat bread if I do
My normal HR is 50-60… just when it goes off it will leak at 100 then drop and hover around late 70s.
My Gp suspected acid reflux might be causing my waking cough & prescribed intensive course of Gaviscon for 6 weeks.3 times a day & before bed.It is a fairly safe treatment.
I would suggest cutting out foods / ingredients and keeping a diary. I did this for months when first diagnosed. Pick one thing to cut out completely and keep a note on episodes .
This Afib lark is so disheartening at times and you feel like you’ve taken 2 steps forward only to be followed by 3/4 back !
Personally if you can afford it I would definately make a private appt with a good cardiologist. Your GP will know the lead one in your area or you could ring your local Nuffield. I did this & it was worth every penny. Sounds like you may need an overhaul of your meds with the man who knows. GPS are not cardiologists and the majority have no conception of how debilitating AF can be.
Like a majority of AFers, we earnestly think we will be able to control or stop our episodes by figuring out our triggers and eliminating them. When this fails, we start with a GP, then a cardiologist who puts us on the usual AF drugs + blood thinner, then we graduate to the specialist electrophysiologist cardiologist who offers an ablation. And that recently improved operation has a fabulous record of ending your AF-ness. It’s rogue cells in your left atrium that cause the arrhythmia. They have to be destroyed in order to stop their interference of the normal pacemaker over in the right atrium.
I spent years looking for triggers, learning vagal maneuvers, deep breathing exercises, in addition to the meds Wasted years except for the fact that when I put my hands up for an ablation, the new safer more successful quicker Pulsed Field Ablation had become available.
So, my advice is to skip right over to a cardiac electrophysiologist at a major hospital and see if you are a candidate for that procedure I did that last May and I am so grateful for it. First thing every morning, I thank God for my happy quiet heart
Am seeing how things go for the final 2 weeks before I go back to Uk,
With all these fantastic comments in here I am really not worried now..and as I have said fortunately I don’t suffer..not tired or pain or anything.
It’s easy to go to dr but they know nothing re the heart so would only be a referral and then we wait and wait.
May I ask,,the ablation you mention,,was that on NHS…? So I could pay to see a EP if one is not available near me which there probably isn’t..and then get referred into nhs for this ablation, is it straight forward and when done is that the end of afib? Sounds v scary
Thanks so much for your help, really appreciate it
I suspect it is not related to anything other than a dodgy electrical system in the left atrium. That's what I have been told whenever I mention things like "vagal irritation" to my specialist, and he ought to know as he's a prof at a leading teaching hospital. What he has said is that irritation of the heart itself is enough to set off ectopic beats, and these can then lead to AF in prone individuals. Just swallowing can do this, apparently, as the oesophagus presses tightly against the atrium in some of us (i.e. yours truly); also, gassy tummies or constipation can push the stomach against the diaphragm and that against the heart, again sparking ectopic beats.
We all tend to look for external triggers, which is natural enough, but I suspect he's right about these more obvious physical causes. Why the atria become super sensitive seems to be the big unknown and un-looked for probably because it's multi-causal, from ageing, to all of the other cardiovascular issues that beset us in the West with our poor diets and lethargy.
Can I ask, if your symptoms are very low, is this because of the flecainide? If not, might I ask why you take it, being a strong anti-arrhythmic drug? I have been prescribed it, but I am reluctant to take it owing to potential side effects.
I took Flecainide for nearly 13 years, for 10 years at the maximum dose of 300mg a day. Result was 1. No side effects. 2. Very few episodes of AF, about 0-2 a year, never lasting more than 10 minutes
Thanks, Thomas. Your long experience is always truly useful. What were the symptoms before you took flecainide? You must have been one of the early users?
Prior to Flecainide I took Amiodarone for 10 months. It did not reduce episodes significantly. I have had permanent, though asymptomatic AF for about seven years. My resting heart rate is about 80bpm. I take only an anticoagulant, because of AF. It causes no problems, apart from needing a urine bottle nearby at night. The last time I had an ECG was in an ambulance about a year ago. I had an allergic reaction to stale tobacco smoke on a friend's clothing, so an ambulance was called. I was fine after oxygen.
Of my ailments, foot drop of my right foot is the most annoying. The peroneal nerve in my right leg is damaged and so messages from my brain to the anterior tibialis muscle are not received, so my foot stays firmly on the ground or floor. I have to raise my right foot by raising my lower leg from the knee. Occasionally I forget, and fall over, all 6ft 6inches of me.
I was just prescribed flecanide because that’s what the cardiologist said over the phone. lol. It seems to do the job in that I just feel that wobbly fluttery feeling that the heart is doing its thing….and so called smart watch confirms it.
No other symtoms..I could probably run a marathon whilst in afib if I could run lol.
Were you given an ECG and echocardiogram first followed by a second ECG soon after starting? Flecainide is an odd drug in the UK as in the USA doctors treat prescribing it with much more caution. I wonder why?
I take 5mg lisinoprio …it’s a holiday home, we stay here 3 months at a time and have done so for 10 yrs. this is my 8th week so nothing unusual has happened to cause an allergy . Give up lol
Looking at the side effects lisinopril can cause a dry tickly cough and a faster heart rate, also digestive issues. I know you’ve been taking it for a while but maybe the effect has built up? Also you have to be careful not to have too much potassium. Frankly it seems quite a heavy duty drug just for BP but I haven’t read your whole history.
Very interesting.. my no wasn’t high per se..just over so of course drs get more brownie points for more drugs being issued. Started them in Jan.. could well be a build up as you say…don’t think I do have too much potassium. I don’t take any supplements with them,,only the electrolyte occasionally. Depends how much is too much,, yoghurt daily..spinach Brocoli x3 weekly …
Dr just handed out that drug must have been on special offer that week lol
Thank so much tho..something to bring to dr or EP attention
Agree with others, you need a proper consultation with a cardiologist at the very least, another point is that Flecainide usually has a beta blocker or calcium channel blocker prescribed with it to prevent other arrhythmias and I don’t think the lisinopriol counts but may be wrong.
I have similar symptoms often caused by carbs. I read that you eat brown rice and wholewheat bread. Fibre can be hard to digest as is fat so you could try cutting out whole grain and all added fats for a few days. Things that naturally contain fats such as eggs, avocado and salmon seem less bothersome than oils and butter/spreads etc. coffee causes an acid stomach as does citrus and vinegars. Try warm water only for a few days too, preferably bottled cause chlorine is a poison!
I eat smallish portions of rice and some oats with my meals. Carbs can help mop up the acid but everyone’s different. Beta blockers can cause indigestion too!
I’m just going to carry on eating what I do which is a balanced diet.
There’s no rhyme or reason to it. Even now it’s doing it again..I swallowed a big gulp of water ! It’s settling a bit,,I took my flecanide early..hopefully it will settle..if not,,well..it will eventually .
You need to see an EP- privately, if your doc won’t refer you. That is what I did (found through the AFA) after my surgery couldn’t come up with anything after the lowest dose of Bisoprolol proved too much for me to take daily. 100mg of Flecainide stopped my episodes in a few hours and now that I take it regularly, only extremely rare episodes, ended quickly with an extra Pip. I have even managed to reduce the first pill of the day to 50mg. If you take Flecainide as a Pip now, is it 100mg and do you rest until your heart settles?
I take flecanide twice a day… morning and evening 100mg .
If I have an episode in the afternoon or lunch I take it early ti try and curb it and depending on what my heart feel like doing it will take 4-8 hrs to revert
Here's my story. Failed Cardioversions and failed Ablation. Been on Bisoprolol/Sotalol and now Amiodarone. AFib now a daily occurrence lasting from minutes to hours. Heart rate varies from 48 and highest 183 [only for 1/2 hour], but most days my heart 'pleases itself' to be honest and I have just had to learn to cope with it as I have been waiting over 4 months for another heart scan. Booked appts. with my local surgery but they cannot help me anymore apart from taking ECG reading and we all know how 'sneaky' AFib is. I have nausea most days and it affects my appetite so I know that I am not overeating/ I am not an anxious person and never have been/no alcohol - I take a daily walk most days but after bad episodes I just take it easy the day after or perhaps longer. It's a constant cycle of trying to keep my heart happy and to be frank it is really wearing me out now so I know how everyone feels. I now have chest pain with prolonged episodes and after visit to surgery was given GTN spray to take, but I know myself this is only a 'sticking plaster' to the actual problem. My last Cardiology appt was in May this year but I was advised that once Amiodarone is less effective then I have to get a pacemaker. I relayed this information to my surgery and they then contacted my EP to see if my scan could be taken sooner rather than later. EP contacted surgery back to say that if I was experiencing chest pain then I would have to be seen by different Cardiology dept. So ........ the wait goes on .......... I hope you get some answers soon.
I have the same nearly every day, apart from today when I had an early blood test 8am and had to change my routine. Mine started because I take medication, having no thyroid and the medication not working after Covid. Two years ago. Recently two months ago I started with a high heart rate 100 and like you after breakfast it starts up and causes me to Dump.
I have never had any other gut problems. This morning instead of taking my Thyroid med at 6am I had to take them at 8.20 after my blood test, then my breakfast at 9.20,
The heart rate was nearly normal, so something was different in that I changed my timings.
I hope this helps. Ice Packs, Breathing etc.etc. never works for long. I have had the same meds and the same breakfast for years with no probs. Good Luck
Go off of all gluten IMMEDIATELY. The body, no matter what others say, cannot process it and it causes a lot of inflammation. Also, I think we kid ourselves with things like protein bars. Lots of bad ingredients and GLUTEN. Thanks.
My trigger always involves the gut's effect on the the heart. If gas is not relieved, it can rise to the middle of my chest and cause distress with my heart which can quickly kick over to Afib.
Here are measures I employ to forestall Afib, although it still occurs every couple of weeks.
1. I found I have celiac disease so I cut out all gluten.
2. I eschew foods such as carbonated drinks, cruciferous vegetables, hard to digest fruit, excess caffeine and drink no alcohol.
3. I eat smaller meals, maybe 2/3 as much, or less, than I would like.
4. I do not eat after 7:00 p.m.
5. I drink warm tea or water with and after each meal.
6. I walk around for about 5 minutes shortly after eating.
7. I make sure my belt is not tight at all.
8. I take Pepcid before lunch and dinner.
9. I take GasX if I sense a build up of gas after eating.
10. I go to bed with a dose or two of Pepto Bismol.
11. I exercise (walk, lift weight) for an hour before going to bed.
12. I sleep with elevated upper body (3 pillows)
13. I use deep, slow breathing when I feel unease in my heart.
14. I have to avoid constipation, which can increase gut distress and therefore heart distress.
15. I try to be calm during Afib (12 hours or so) and wait for it to pass, eating and moving normally, but not doing an exercise workout during it.
16. Doing things and getting distracted with mental activities seems to work better for recovery to NSR than sitting and monitoring it.
17. When I got my weight down 35 lbs, I did not have Afib for 14 months, until I regained 20 lbs. (clue to self)
18. Primarily, I focus on trapped gas relief.
19. I have no idea how much each of the items on my list serves to avoid Afib!
I do recommend the drinking warm liquid with, or right after a meal to relax the intestines and being up and moving for a period shortly after eating, rather than sitting.
Having read more of people's comments and your own, I'm now wondering why you're on Flecainide rather than having it as a PIP .. did you have an echocardiogram? My understanding is that that is essential before prescribing Flecainide. I have Flec as a PIP which I try not to use because it has strong after effects for me but others can tolerate it well for years on end. In any case it would be good for you to check all this out with a good cardiologist. As someone said - find who is the lead cardiologist in your county or general area in UK, and request to see him if he does private consultations.
I'm personally not keen on the idea of ablation but that's just me, there are so many on this forum who have had success with it, and there are so many who haven't .. or have it repeated times before going for a PM. It would be interesting to know the success rates of ablation. Of course if you see an EP that's what he's likely to suggest because that's what they do. If you see a Cardiologist he might suggest ablation, or he might check out your prescriptions, and address lifestyle issues first.
Yes I had ecg and echo cardio gram and then that’s what the cardiologist prescribed…by letter.never saw her.
I have no after effects what so ever from it…to date.
I’ll just see what EP says..I have called and they need a referral from my gp so that’s my next step. See what he says, I know if someone who had an ablation..made no difference…so I totally get what you are saying.
If I could control or minimise at least the episodes that will do me. ..just to try and find out why they are so frequent at the moment, May be a blip lol
I’m just being nosey here, picking up bits and pieces about your diet and wondering what a typical day would go like? It sounds excruciatingly healthy to me (apart from the protein bar ☺️), is it your choice or based on a fitness/weight loss regime?
Breakfast….either….oats skimmed or semi milk ..flax..protein powder ..all bran
Lunch is usually eggs..on toast/ omelette/ tinned mackerel..may be salad in salad season, May be a slice of bread… flora buttery
Dinner. Chicken….fish….veg..basmati brown rice. Occasionally pasta.. homemade sauces for whatever we have…chickpeas..lentils..soya .sometimes pork...occasionally fish and chips in the chip fryer…that’s a treat. Pudding is 0% fromage blanc protein powder and raspberries. ..
Bananas apples… occasional biscuit or home made something .
Whatever fruit is in season or cheap .
We both enjoy this. Hubby has even more protein than me but he’s really fit and 76! Have to say we are in our house in France so stuff is expensive and soya meat and lentils are eaten more here because meat is expensive.
Funnily enough we don’t buy cheese..only when we have friends over ..same with wine ridiculous when it’s£2 a bottle
In the Uk we probably eat more chicken and fish and less soya..
Yes we do go out occasionally to restaurants etc and enjoy things we wouldn’t have at home …like steak….italian ….we think it’s healthy but we enjoy it.
I have had 2 episodes this year while abroad. One in italy and the other when cruising the Norwegian fjords. I could not decide whether it was the change of diet or the change of routine. I have most af when relaxing ie after lunch, in the evening and when asleep. I have a Wellue heart monitor and can find no correlation with any particular food.
I would ask your GP to do lab urinalysis. I was found to have interstitial ecoli which whilst low was enough to cause irritation to cause frequent loo visits. But barely showed up in lipstick test. Antibiotics fixed that problem.
However, Bisoprolol definitely alters pH of wee I think which allow bacteria to take over. I use D-Mannose powder in coffee or milk. 1 x 5ml spoonful of powder helps maintain bladder health. Pumpkin seed oil is also a remedy. Too much DMannose will cause loose bowel movements. I get AF if I get dehydrated or overfill my stomach.
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AF episode
The vagus nerve
Triggers
Vagal Tone & AF
6 days post ablation
