I am 81 and a year ago I had an AV node ablation. I realise this is probably a silly question but I wonder if anyone can help me. If I was involved in an emergency, say an RTA or a nasty fall or whatever and needed emergency help, I don't really know how to quickly explain my medical 'condition'. Prior to the AV node ablation I would say, 'I have a pacemaker because I suffer with atrial fibrillation'. But now that I've had the AV node ablation I don't think that really sufficiently covers my condition. For example - what would happen if they were to put the 'pads' on me? Might that just shock the pacemaker and finish me off? I wouldn't expect a First Aider or even every Paramedic to understand the implications of an AV node ablation. I find most people have some idea what an ablation means and simply assume that is what I have had. So, what I would like is something succinct to explain quickly, and perhaps also to have engraved on a Medical Alert pendant. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Thank you, Tricia
What to say?: I am 81 and a year ago I... - Atrial Fibrillati...
What to say?
I think you under estimate emergency workers to be honest. I did ask how they could let me die if I was seriously injured and was told they all carry a device to turn off PMs and ICDs in such cases.
A note on your ICE card should cover your concerns .
That’s interesting- I volunteer with the emergency services ( I get to play a victim or a collapsed person ) and I constantly raise the fact I have a pacemaker which they’re about to use the defibrillator and they’ve never once mentioned the ability to switch them off but they do reassure me that the defibrillator pads if correctly placed will not blow/ fuse/ interfere with the pacemaker and if it were the case the pacemaker can be reset …
I shall keep asking the paramedics and see if the answers change over time …
Maybe one action is to make sure that the pacemaker is obvious…. Mine is buried in my armpit so perhaps a big arrow and “Pacemaker” tattooed will help …, or maybe an outline of where the pads should be placed might avoid any complications..
Hard to miss mine as it is so obvious plus the wires that are by my collar bone. I just didn't want to be running around like a headless chicken till I ran out of blood. lol 😂
As firstaiders we are taught to look for pacemakers (although not in the armpit!)
That’s reassuring but in general are the implications of an AV node ablation understood? That’s my main concern.
That’s my experience with the people I play dead for - that why I was imagining a tattooed arrow for mine … mind you I have the scars where they’ve inserted them ( 3 so far over the years) as an indicator…
If I need defibrillating I don’t think I’ll be laying on the floor worrying about it too much !
“how they could let me die”
I don’t think that is Tricia239’s question. I think she wants to be kept alive!
“For example - what would happen if they were to put the 'pads' on me? Might that just shock the pacemaker and finish me off?”
Too right, baba, I do want to be kept alive! As you rightly say, that wasn't my question at all, I want to know how to explain to them about the implications of the AV Node and the pacemaker, so that 'they' don't do the wrong thing.
You will have been given a pacemaker card, ensure you carry that around with you or a copy of it. I think you ask a really interesting question but don’t overthink it as the recent 1st aid course for CPR I went on explained that most of these machines are very intelligent and will only work if it is considered essential,
The bit about ‘switching it off’ referred to the ICD’s which some people have implanted - that is Internal Cardiac Defibrillator. If Paramedics assess someone as having unsurvivable injuries - that is what would be turned off so the person is not continually receiving shocks, which I understand are quite painful, every few minutes. I don’t think you have an ICD Tricia.
You can wear alert bracelet or pendant - I found them a nuisance. I have my Emergency details on my phone and I made up a stack of cards which I also laminated for my handbag(s)/pockets. Hope that helps.
Thank you for your advice, but I don't think I have explained my concern very well. I'm not overly concerned about the pacemaker, but what I am concerned about is being able to explain, and describe succinctly on say a medi alert bracelet, the implications of the AV node ablation. What really started my train of thought was, I got a niggle of toothache, and then I realised that I have now got so many teeth that are filled to bursting and I could end up needing several out at the same time, in which case I was thinking I would want to ask for 'sedation'. I don't even know if dentists do that, but my thoughts went on and I began to wonder how would I explain to the dentist that I had had an AV node ablation and am therefore dependent upon my pacemaker, but even with that my heart obviously doesn't function in the 'normal' manner. It is difficult to explain to someone who probably hasn't come across it before. And how do I put that in a couple of words on a Medic Alert bracelet or pendant. I agree they are a pain, I've had a couple already but the engraving has worn off and so I thought I would get another one but make sure it is of better quality. The phone is a good idea, I think I may have done it but must check I have brought it up to date. I do carry my pacemaker card in the wallet of my phone, plus the Anticoagulant info, but that means someone having to scrabble around to find these things, where as a pendant or bracelet is more 'in your face'. Thanks again, and if you have any further suggestions please let me know. Tricia
Yep, same here, carry your card at all times and also have all your details on your mobile. I also have a little pot in my fridge door which contains all the details of my medications etc., and a corresponding sticky patch on the front door of my house alerting the medics to this face. Same with blood thinners, carry your alert card.
Tricia239
You also need to be aware that you may not be able to explain, for example if you are unconscious, so a wearable pendant or bracelet is a good idea
Keep it simple. Say exactly what it is. AV Node Ablation. The onus is then on the medics to check this out before deciding what action to take.
I wear a medical bracelet with all medications etc listed inside, also I have a bracelet that says pacemaker, but your scar would be the giveaway in any case!
Isn't the answer as simple as Pacemaker Dependant
I think you may well be right, and that's probably what I will use. Thank you.
You could wear a lanyard with laminated card with pertinent details under clothing. Useful if you were unable to speak or unconscious. Heaven forbid 🤗
From my understanding, your heart, whilst it depends on your PM for normal activity, will continue to beat well without it. Unfortunately, the heart rate will be too low for good health (in the mid 30s, if I recall), but you will be safe while this can be dealt with.
Steve
Tricia239
I always wear a medical bracelet when I'm out and about or at home alone to warn any paramedics of the fact that I'm on Apixaban.
The company known as Butler and Grace supply a range of medical bracelets to suit all budgets and styles. They can have standard messages or you can personalise with your own message to suit your conditions. Can't post a link so if you search for "Butler and Grace" I'm sure you will find their website and something suitable for your needs.
Good Luck
Hi Tricia like you I have had AV node ablation and the scary part is the dependence on the pacemaker as unlike others who have replied I was told that the residual heart rate would not sustain life if the pacemaker failed
I have decided that av node ablation is too obscure for most people and that pacemaker dependant is possibly clearer and should promp people to look for my pacemaker card
Hope that helps
Thanks, yes I think that is the most succinct way of putting it. Before I had the AV node ablation I asked the Consultant what would happen if the pacemaker failed and he assured me that my heart would beat naturally at about 30 or 40 bpm - enough to keep me alive and to make a phone call for assistance but not enough to spring clean the house!!!!!
Have a look at MedicAlert medicalert.org.uk
There is an annual fee but your medical information is stored by them and is accessible 24/7.
When you order your bracelet or pendant you discuss what to put on it with a registered nurse.
The engraving on my bracelet shows no signs of wearing at all, although I have worn it night and day for several years.
From my niece who is a paramedic in London:
'We would still do CPR as normal so it wouldn’t affect that. If they have a pacemaker as well, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get a bracelet saying she has a pacemaker. Also she could add all her medical history onto her medical ID on her phone - I check that on patients who are unconscious."
Thank you, that is really helpful and reassuring.
I have a pacemaker and watchman in addition to having an ablation with continued persistent afib. I am getting a medical necklace with as much info as I can.
Yes, its a good idea. Thanks
Buy a medical bracelet. All medical personals know and recognize them and to read what is on them. You can have any medical information you want engraved on them.
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