A regular question on this forum - Taking Fish Oil supplements? I’ve always been interested in this one and prior to taking anticoagulants, I thought they were a good thing for heart health but now I wouldn’t waste my money. (reminder that fish oil supplement enhance the affect of anticoagulants so not good to take if you also take anticoagulants as bleed risk increases taking both together)
As many of you know, I am a regular listener to the Zoe pod casts but this one about Omega Oils and whether or not they can help with reducing cholesterol and improving cardiac general health is an interesting one - it’s certainly not black or white yes/no answer, like most things - it depends. The Nutritional studies are much more informative on food and food supplement so I would recommend seeking them out and the Zoe team come with highest recommendation.
The only way I can provide a link is to direct you to the Zoe website - which does advertise their programme - however it also give a transcript and links to the other podcasts in the series. Please know that I am not pushing Zoe, just interested in the information and learned a lot.
The area in pink gives links to the actual studies this editorial on which the speakers’ opinions are based upon.
Hi I always took omega 3 fish oil for years . I was diagnosed with af, and I was put on anticoagulants. I found with taking the fish oil and anticoagulant I started getting pins and needles in my lower part of my legs, when I read upon it ,it says fish oil interfears with your anticoagulant, just ask your pharmacy to make sure ,I stopped yanking the fish oil and the pins and needles stopped.
Fish oils should contain EPA and DHA. The benficial effect for heart and brains is said to be 250mg of each per day. Although I take an anticoagulant, I also take fish oil as I have damaged knees and I've had a stroke. I've also taken fish oils to raise my HDL In the past we were told that HDL should be 2 or over. Now, we are told that HDL above 2.3 acts like LDL The cynic in me says that could be a good excuse to put people on statins.
Thanks for your attempts to help. I'm getting a bit blinded by the science. Sometimes it seems that this forum is for medical professionals rather than patients trying to get to grips with the basics of what is wrong with us and what we can do about it.
If you've had a number of medical issues over the years, you get to know the details and the language. I'm a lived-experience participant in stroke studies, and this morning I've been talking to second year University students about taking a medical history and neurological aspects related to strokes. Recently I briefly joined a patient participation group, but the Chair had not heard of cholesterol, so there was no hope of discussing detection of atrial fibrillation in the community.
Great that you asked the question. It wasn't until I worked in Yorkshire and Lancashire on computer suite infrastructure, that people would ask me to explain a term. At my end of the country, if there was a word or phrase that I hadn't understood, I would nod sagely and wait for a clue as what had just been said. With omega 3 and fish oils, it's easier to use the acronyms.
Post script to the session with students
I had a call from the GP who was mentoring the University students: "can I talk to more second year students in a two weeks time?" Great, it's a way that us lived experience people can bring about change. The thing that struck me, was she said that the students "were blown away with my medical knowledge". We forget that those of us who've had AF, stroke, and other conditions for years become experts. That should encourage us to volunteer for medical studies and, to talk to students. We can be the agents of change. We might even persuade AF studies to use participants who are younger than 70! I'm pleased to say that the GP mentoring the students, agreed that participants in AF studies need to be younger than 70: we're getting there guys!
Yep I take fish oils too . Have done for decades. Been around long enough to know that medical opinion on supplements changes like the weather . So you have to decide what is right for you
I have taken omega 3 for over 25 years but not fish oil but emu oil capsules. I have had quite bad arthritus for many years causing pain and stiffness of joints. For instance in the moring I would have to put my hands in a bowl of hot water just to ease the stiffness to make a cup of tea. I took fish oils at first then I found emu oil capsules. After 4 weeks of taking them the stiffness practically went from my joints and I have been on them since then. I have at times stopped taking them (once when of holiday, forgot to pack them) and by the end of the week I was in pain and stiffness returned. I did try a few times taking fish oils (emu oil is a little more expensive) and the same thing happened, so I just carry on taking the emul oil. 2014 I was diagnosed with AF and HF and of course went on anticogulants so have been taking both for 9 years now. At this time it seemed it was okay to take both.
When this issue came up recently I had a re-think about it, read a few articles and comments on here and decided that I would carry on taking both. I just do not want to go back to the pain and stiffness that I would get, it would make daily life very difficult. I am 76 years old have permanent AF and controlled HF and on Diltiazem, Nebivolol, Ramipril and Rivaroxaban. Nothing has happened in regard to taking both over the past 9 years so I will carry on taking the risk, which seems to be somewhat debatable.
I totally support your comments on Zoe. In terms of fish oil, I had understood that if you regularly eat oily fish that’s the best thing, and that’s what I do. Am hoping I thereby get the benefits without the problems!
And yet - Pof Spectre disagrees which is what makes for the complexity - farmed fish is higher in Omega 3’s but it’s farmed. There has been drastic decline in fish stocks - so is it ethical? This is what the Podcast delved into.
We all want definitive, binary answers and of course this is none - sensical.
Oh that’s very interesting. I must listen to the Zoe podcasts more frequently - sadly I often mean to do it later “when I have more time”! I’ll definitely listen to that one. I clearly need to give more thought to this.
Did Dr Sarah Berry say that she would rather people ate farmed fish than no fish in this podcast? I know TS is critical of the ‘2 portions of fish per week with one being oily fish’ recommendation, although I seem to remember his concern being more to do with contamination rather than the consumption of fish per se. It’s certainly a complicated picture.
Sardines get round the farmed bit but not the decline in fish stocks. I think it is too much of a headache to try and balance all these different factors. I take fish oils and have for 25+ years. I also eat a very small amount of oily fish about 5 times a week - mainly sardines. I have no intention of changing my current food habits no matter what any "science" says as this seems to change on a regular basis. My main food rules are not to eat more than the minimum of HPF and to enjoy what I eat. I have just made a really delicious chocolate cake for my daughter's stay with us and we are all enjoying it.
Mmm. I take it all with pinch of salt. Everyone is a different being. I’ve had to change medication to Dronedarone, I read the long leaflet. It seems it can increase the effect of Apixaban, I’m already a bleeder and hate taking THAT! Now what? Not one Medic can tell me what I should do!! A Consultant prescribed, casually mentioned’oh, your not on an anticoagulant are you’!! YES I said, no response🤯 had come up with splitting the tablet and hope. ‘Abandoned all hope here’!
We are told eat this do that, don't do something else, to try and help animal/fish. vegetable/farming etc etc. I for one am fed up with being told in this country, we must do these things to reduce carbon emissions, save the planet et. NO-OTHER COUNTRY IS DOING MORE! I know I'm off piste here, but we cannot do this on our own-wars, wildfires, floods etc global warming is a natural phenomena-it goes in cycles, and while it is laudable to try and keep the temperature below 1.5 increase, unless the entire world does it's bit it ain't gonna happen.
Most of the time I only take half the dose of Apixaban as the full dose gives me awful back pain and other side effects. I also take several supplements that have "blood thinning " properties that I wish to continue with. I know this approach is unorthodox and no doubt risky but life is not risk free and I have to balance daily misery against a stroke that might never happen. I have not noticed any difference in the time I bleed after cutting myself or scratching myself on roses - still a lot more than before I went on Apixaban . One size fits all dosing which unlike Warfarin is all you have with the DOACs is not ideal.
If anyone is considering buying fish oil supplements for its alleged health benefits, I suggest you spend that money on oily fish instead of supplements.
I don’t know whether the same caveats apply to vegans and vegetarians who take algal oil supplements who are also on anticoagulants. I’m not aware of any evidence on algal oils that supports this or not.
interesting points - covered in the discussion - as vegans & vegetarians don’t need as much Onega 3 to gain the same benifits for heart health as carnivores. Vegetarians get enough essential fatty oils from eggs. Chia is high in Omega 3 so although a different type, we really don’t need to eat any oily fish at all to gain benefits but we do need much better, individual nutritional advice for good health - which we aren’t getting from the doctors as they aren’t trained in nutrition.
Most of the really good quality supplements are now produced from algae so ok for vegans + everyone else.
My understanding of plant omega3s eg chia and walnuts is that some individuals are better at converting them than others. Some researchers say that vegans should definitely supplement with algal oils for this reason. Certainly plant based eaters have better protection against CVD at least at the population level. The concern that some experts have is more to do with brain health. I’m not sure there’s a definitive answer about this, at least not yet.
Look up " The clot thickens" they've been pushing statins at me for 15 years,had angiogram 5 years ago & arteries are crystal clear,do 100 miles a week on push bike ect ect & ldl is 178 👍
exactly - but the myth on cholesterol persists. Fish oils are a different matter though altogether and there seems to be no concerns us - based on research.
I don't take an AC so do have fish oil. Having 'lost' my gall bladder, I was advised Krill oil would be the best and have been taking this for many years. No problems, no idea if it is doing any good!!
it is sometimes difficult to know if something is doing one good. Normally stopping the decline in effects is gradual and how does one know what to attribute it to? Ditto the ‘doing good effect’ can take time. Consequently I don’t dare stop a supplement.
Fish oil tablets precipitated my perforated bowel.The Dr said it would be better to take flax seed oil.He said its the additives that are put in them.Certainly weren't good for me.
“Our study suggests that fish oil supplements are associated with a significantly greater risk of atrial fibrillation in patients at elevated cardiovascular risk. Although one clinical trial indicated beneficial cardiovascular effects of supplementation, the risk for atrial fibrillation should be considered when such agents are prescribed or purchased over the counter, especially in individuals susceptible to developing the heart rhythm disorder.”
The last 2 links to the same study show that it was done on a particular population."The analysis included five randomised controlled trials investigating the effects of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation on cardiovascular outcomes. Participants had elevated triglycerides and were either at high risk for cardiovascular disease or had established cardiovascular disease. A total of 50,277 patients received fish oils or placebo and were followed up for between 2 and 7.4 years. The dose of fish oils varied from 0.84 g to 4 g per day." There are too many variables here in follow up and dosage for it to be extrapolated with any certainty to the general population or even to those who suffer from PAF without cardiovascular disease or elevated triglycerides.
Interesting, thank you. This is why I prefer the food first approach as it’s often the case that regular consumption of a food can have health benefits but supplements containing isolated components of a food will fail to show any benefits. People do put so much faith in supplements though and it’s very difficult to dissuade people from their expensive urine therapy.
I always take note of your replies CDreamer and I shall value them much more now I know you’re a ZOE fan as am I. I used to take omega 3 but not since I’ve been on anticoagulants. Didn’t want to chance it. Feel the same about co enzyme Q10
I’ve talked to my pharmacist about fish oil while on APIXABAN and he said a 1,000mg capsule was ok. I’ve taken them together for two years slso 100mg Co enzyme Q10 with no problems.
I also take omega-3 supplements, and they have really helped me control my blood pressure. However, sometimes I feel weak due to the sudden drop in pressure. While I appreciate the benefits of omega-3s, I wouldn't necessarily recommend them as a complete replacement for anti-hypertensive medication. It's crucial to consult with a doctor for personalized advice on managing your blood pressure. By the way, I choose organic omega-3 supplements from this specific store.
I was taking olive oil and cider vinegar for arthritis, but changed to organic hempseed oil on the recommendation of a very knowledgeable herbalist, the Herbal Clinic, Swansea. Farmed fish is full of dangerous contaminants from the conditions they are kept in and the food given them.
back around 2006 i saw Larry King on TV pushing that OmegaXL. he said it helped him recover from his heart attack, and he sure did look great. i had no heart problems, just a little high blood pressure which i was taking HCT for. i started taking OmegaXL at that time, and have been taking it ever since. In 2018 i suffered four cardiac arrests, where my heart totally stopped, fortunately i was in the ER at the time and they revived me each time. i was dx with mild heart failure and AFIB. i was upset at first because i had spent so much money on the OmegaXL and i still had 4 cardiac arrests. BUT then i started thinking --- would it have been much worse if i hadn't been taking it? it may have actually saved my life. we will never know. but i will continue to take it.
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Fish 🐟 oil and AF 
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