Question re my Meds..

[Chris1945]

Hi, I started with PAF back in 2014, started out on Warfarin but as a veggie wanted to be able to eat lots of green stuff so was moved to Apixaban. Then after seeing a private Cardiologist (who did more cardiac tests than any other Doc I've seen before!) he moved me to Edoxaban and within days it caused major rashes on elbows and elsewhere on the old bod that are still there to this day and will not disappear. but at least I can eat the green stuff in abundance. I still maintain any episode of afib is digestive related because of it only occurring during the night and if I eat anything after 5pm, but that's another topic all of its own!

But my question is, since being on Edoxaban I have experienced severe joint and muscle pain, I'm told it's arthritis which is probably true given my advanced age (77) and I've also been told about something called CBD which can be taken to relieve the pain, has anybody any more info on this, have they tried it and has it worked with other meds such as blood thinners? Thanks in advance....xx

[BobD Volunteer]

Firstly Warfain does not mean that you can't eat green stuff. You just need to make sure that your diet is consitent. Eating lots of greens may mean that your waarfarin dose is up but so long as you aways eat that much who cares? Although I'm not, my wife is veggie and we have loads of kale, broccolli etc. My INR is very stable.

Secondly yes I'm 77 too and have arthritis but did before warfarin 17 years ago. Yes it has got worse but not in any way related to talking anticoagulants. The only thing I noticed is split nails!

Thirdly CBD is cannibis oil. My son suggested I try it for insomnia some time ago and I did try it for three months. It is very expensive (about £30 for a tiny dropper bottle which lasted me about a month each) and I really didn't notice any change in either sleep or arthritis. It also doesn't taste too good . Lol

[Chris1945 in reply to BobD]

Thanks again Bob and to everyone else who has responded, I really appreciate it so will answer everyone at the same time via Bob, hope that's ok. The only problem I had with Warfarin was that my INRs were all over the place and I kept having to go for more regular checks at doc's surgery which tbh, was tedious. So I was moved to Apixaban and that's when the joint and muscle pains appeared all over the old bod and there they have stayed and I now have arthritis which is pretty much, everywhere. I was changed to Edoxaban by the cardiologist who did all the comprehensive tests I mentioned and who found nothing untoward (btw, I continue to think my Afib is digestive related but that's another topic altogether!) but it has made no difference whatsoever indeed the added 'bonus' of this drug has caused huge rashes all over the place, hands, elbows etc., and continued pain everywhere. So a good friend has suggested I try CBD to ease the pain and I'm happy to give it a go, just need to find the best one and where to get it! So it's ever onwards but thanks again to you all, I wish everyone well....x

[Autumn_Leaves]

Also want to add that there is a lot of CBD fraud ie what you’re buying isn’t necessarily what you think. There’s a lot of manuka honey fraud too, just as a comparison. So I would counsel caution when buying these products, and make sure that if you buy CBD that you know what you’re buying and that you’re buying from a reputable source. Although price is not always a reliable indicator of quality, I would steer clear of too-good-to-be-true bargains.

[ChasMartin in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

I agree on this. A few years back I had tried some cbd products for help with sleep, and some did absolutely nothing. When I found a tincture that actually was as potent as it stated on the bottle, I could tell the difference. Not intoxicating at all, and I slept a very restful deep sleep.

And it tasted good Bob! They infused MCT oil with mango flavor and the cbd and it tasted great.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to ChasMartin]

Obviously not Holland and Barrett's then . I tried both of the ones they sell.

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to BobD]

No, definitely not H&B. Probably 95% cooking oil 😱

[Chris1945 in reply to ChasMartin]

Any chance you could let me know the name of this option and how to get it? Thx

[ChasMartin in reply to Chris1945]

It’s from a company called Fairwinds in Washington state.

[Chris1945 in reply to ChasMartin]

Ah thanks, I'm in the UK however my daughter lives in Canada so she might be able to get hold of them over there but not sure about what happens to them when they arrive on UK shores but I'll get her to check things out in that respect! Thx again

[secondtry in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

and evidently a lot of fraud with Canadian maple syrup per recent TV programme.

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to secondtry]

Yes, you have to be on your guard with that one too!

[Singwell]

I think I've read here that magnesium oil is effective for soothing of joint pain? Might be worth checking out.

[wilsond]

My take is this,why were you moved from Apixaban to Edoxoban? It obviously does not suit you,so I would be keen to revert to either Apixaban or Warfarin.

[Chris1945 in reply to wilsond]

Good question, but it was the cardiologist who recommended it and I just went with it but both medications have caused major rashes and both have increased my joint pain....butif and when I get it, I will see if CBD helps....

[wilsond in reply to Chris1945]

I think I would get back to him/her and report what has happened.If you cannot tolerate anticoagulation to this extent,you should be a candidate for atrial appendage to be blocked off. This is where a lot of clots form in AF,bit like an appendix.

Id be more concerned about getting my AC right or the above than exploring ways to counteract side effects.

Your consultant needs to know hiw you are.

Best of luck xx

[Auriculaire]

I take Apixaban and it definitely worsens my joint pain. I discovered this when taken off it for 8 days before an op . Despite needing the hip replacement the pain in it and other joints improved noticeably. After the op they continued the bridging jabs fof a couple of days so I was off about 11 days altogether. When I went back on the pain returned and the penny dropped.

[2learn]

Hi, same as BobD when i was on warfarin noprobs with eating green veg. INR team just monitored me and suggested change in dosage if a problem. Arthritis I had with warfarin but in knee and elbow, since i've been switched to apixaban I have chronic arthritis in nearly every joint and pain every night. I am now on prescription pain killers just to sleep. Medics tend not to tell you about apixaban causing joint pain. Medical profession has done nothing for arthritis in over 70 years, presumably because its not a fatal disease. So you can be unable to live a life because of pain and weakness, but medics don't really care. Don't know if Edoxaban has same side effects

[BlueINR]

I've been talking warfarin for 13 years and have never restricted any intake of green vegetables. I can test INR at home, and results reported to an NP who modifies dose if needed. Think the thought here in the US, is that it's better to adjust warfarin dose to the diet, than it is to restrict valuable nutrients.And while consistency is important, so is good nutrition.

Have never heard afib is related to digestion, and that sounds absurd to me. It is the conduction of electrical signals in the heart being awry that causes afib. It has nothing to do with digestion of food.

They are two totally different processes

[Chris1945 in reply to BlueINR]

Hi, sorry but I disagree, it is not absurd. There is a cardiologist here in UK called Sanjay Gupta who works in the city of York Hospital and is well known to most a-fibbers here. Link below or for further info and if link doesn't work, just go to youtube and type in his name,/cardiologist/afib..... he has lots of videos re heart issues and he is certain the stomach connection and vagus nerve play a very big part in afib in some. I also have another digestive issue which exacerbates my problem but that's between me and my cardiologist! However it definitely doesn't help things.

healthunlocked.com/afassoci...

[BlueINR]

A lot of us in the US see Sanjay Gupta as a television personality, and not much of a "real" doctor. I have no digestive problems, yet have had at least 18 episodes of afib. Do not see any food/digestive connections. Maybe some do, but doesn't mean all do.