My April 2022 blood tests returned a serum magnesium level of 1.1 nmol/L. (Normal given as 0.7-1.0)
And one constant on the Forum is members recommending Magnesium supplementation, reinforced by medical experts saying the same.
My question however is what actual level (in nmol/L) are members who supplement with Magnesium aiming for?
All far too techncial that. Just take enough that you don't get the runs.
Thanks for your considered(?) reply.
However, it must be the case that either I'm already getting all the magnesium I need from my food, which would be good, OR, the NICE recommended levels of serum magnesium are well out of date (like the Vitamin D recommendations).
Which is it?
Either way, it would seem to be prudent for me to ask others on the Forum about their actual experience of AF related to their serum magnesium levels. Especially in the light of all the recommendations on this Forum about the desirability of magnesium supplementation.
"Taking enough that you don't get the runs" may be your "first thoughts", but it's certainly not the informed response or information I was trying/hoping to elicit.
Even without the "runs", it must surely be the case that too much magnesium might be dangerous and so needs to be quantified, and what can I measure other than serum magnesium?
BobD's response is in fact more considered than you give him credit for. In fact, taking "too much" Mg in a supplement will merely elevate the effect into the minerals more common medical use-laxative. Although BobD did not mention it, it matters not a hoot what form of Mg you take as a supplement, the are all equally absorbed (poorly). There is also no uniform medical/scientific consensus that Mg supplementation will do anything to help your afib, but as it is really quite harmless, do what you want.
Thanks for adding your opinion. At least my original Reply to BobD has elicited the more detailed information I was hoping for.
Perhaps BobD was acting as an Agent Provocateur?
Ozziebob: Just as an aside, some time back I asked my GP to do a Mg level test. He told me that it won't show anything that is useful, and if I'm really concerned about my Mg level, than just stop taking Tums (CaCO3) and pop a few Gelusil Mg(OH)2 instead, and I'll be fine. P.S. I don't have a great deal of confidence in my GP, but this one time I did take his advice!
Can’t let you get away with that one old cock. I guess you haven’t a clue who you are talking to. From a man who probably knows more about af than most cardiologists (not difficult), and many EPs if the ones I have dealt with are typical, that’s mightily patronising and condescending and unworthy of a volunteer. We all need to engage our pre-frontal cortices before “blurting” (a symptom long associated with ADD/ADHD. I can say that with confidence, my DW the Dragon Lady, she with a brain the size of a planet but little common sense, is afflicted)
You do a fantastic job here but sometimes your blurts are ill judged. I remain though, totally in awe of your expertise given you are not a medic but a mere banker.
My understanding is that the normal GP surgery serum magnesium test is almost always OK unless you have a serious issue as the body allocates the supply of Mg available to the blood first. So your result of 1.1 tells you just that you don't have a serious problem.
A more informative test of your Mg level is known as the Red Cell Mg test. I have just done another reply re Coq10 & Mg levels on this, so have copied it below:
I trust the Lamberts Healthcare brand (no commercial interest). For several years , I had my CoQ10 level tested (simple blood test posted to BioLab London & arranged by my Naturopath) every 6 months so could see the absorption confirmed at different dose levels.Incidentally, the Naturopath said to stop AF I needed my Red Cell Magnesium and Co Q10 to be in the top quartile of the normal range, hence the testing. I got the CoQ10 to the top of the range but can't shift the Mg level from the bottom quartile 🤔.
Thank you for your helpful reply. I pursued your Biolab London reference to find a cost estimate, but unfortunately they went into Administration in July 2022.
When your Naturopath decides on a suitable alternate source for this test, can you please let me know. Otherwise I'm just browsing the internet in a confusing world of competing claims.
Oh dear, checked with my Naturopath and they said their new contact is tdlpathology.com/ but the costs they quoted have almost tripled BioLab's to:
Red Cell Magnesium £150CoQ10 £139.50Blood draw at lab £45
Maybe worth get a comparative quote elsewhere??
LOL, it isn't a constant from me. I've seen no studies (and there are many doctors who have tried) that show oral magnesium has any significant effect on heart arrhythmias. It's a harmless electrolyte, and one that the body excretes all excess safely, so is definitely worth trying, but I suspect much of any effect will be placebo (not that that is in any way to be sneezed at).
In rare cases of genuine malabsorption (a decent diet has plenty of magnesium), I gather that it's difficult to replace magnesium orally, but that is a different thing. Sometimes, chronic usage of stomach medicines such as the PPI drugs can stop its absorption, but, again, taking extra orally won't help. I read.
Steve
Steve,
Thanks for your helpful reply.
I do seem to eat a lot of magnesium rich foods, almonds, cashews, legumes, salmon, wholegrains and rice, peanuts, bananas, beans et al. because of my non-meat diet, which hopefully explains my "above range" serum magnesium.
Despite the repeated glowing recommendations for extra magnesium by many on the Forum, I don't really want to supplement with any more magnesium and your research is reassuring.
bob
I’ve looked as hard as the internet will allow and remain amazed at the way quite a lot of people find it useful and even obsess over it(which brand / which salt… all are identical really) but there we are. Some cardiologists even recommend it but with no science to support it, that always surprises me. I suspect they know the importance of comfort and placebo.
Well done on the diet, by the way. My son eats similarly well but with some meat now and then.
Steve
There is no "science" to support a great deal of what are the "sacred cows" of medicine such as the connection between eating unsaturated fat and heart disease and low serotonin levels in the brain cause depression . Cholesterol lowering drugs and SSRI prescriptions stem from this. Both of these are a great deal more harmful than magnesium supplements. Also if you count as "science" industry sponsored studies where the raw data is hidden under the excuse of "commercial secret" until a court orders it released ( usually with revelations that the drug company knwew all along that their drug was dangerous/ ineffective or both) then you have a very different idea of science than I do.
Industry sponsorship has always been a worry where “science” is concerned, but that it well known and accounted for in the various checks and balances that now exist - much better than in earlier times, I feel sure. The studies I was referring to regarding oral magnesium are not of that kind anyway, so the science of magnesium is fairly well established.
Studies of diseases that are chronic and long term are full of difficulties and open to many kinds of errors that statisticians try to ameliorate but can’t completely. Again, this is well known and the checks and balances try to to account for it to enable health authorities to arrive at a well reasoned conclusion.
Statins fall into this latter category. SSRI drugs seem to me to be an anomaly and I’m sure they are under further investigation given the recent better understanding of their mode of action. It’s an area of research that I’m fascinated by.
Steve
I you are supplementing with vit D then it would be a good idea to supplement with magnesium as that improves the efficiency of the vit D absorption. The serum magnesium is a poor indicator of the body's magnesium status .
Yes, I raised my Vitamin D from 22 -->107 nmol/L in 6 months with Vitamin D supplementation, but without any magnesium supplements. Not sure I need my D levels much higher, but I suppose I could lower my Vitamin D dose if it was absorbed better. I will look further into your recommendation.
Apparently you can reduce the amount of vit D if you are taking magnesium. I read some figures on this somewhere but I can't remember where. But it was a substantial figure - over 100% better absorption with magnesium supplements.
Are you saying the magnesium I get in my food, already giving me an "above range" serum magnesium level, isn't as good as supplements in raising my vitamin D uptake?
I really can't answer that one. As I said before the serum magnesium test is a poor indicator of tissue magnesium status in the body as very little of the total magnesium in the body is in the blood and this is nearly always "normal" with this test.. This does not mean that the magnesium levels elsewhere are optimal. There is also a big difference between what is optimal and what is normal. Normal ranges often mean what most of the population falls into. In the end it comes down to experimenting with your own body. As both vit D and magnesium supplements are cheap it probably does not make sense to supplement magnesium to lower vit D requirements. I do not take magnesium myself solely to assist vit D supplementation.
Hi Ozziebob, I wonder if you decided on a magnesium supplement and if so which one? We grow much of our own veg and live in an area with low magnesium so we feed the soil, but much of our large scale agri business has depleted soils of magnesium in UK. Apparently just enough for plants to survive. That's why I take a magnesium supplement. An acupuncturist who knows a lot about Afib has recently recommended magnesium citrate rather than the oxide.
No, I wasn't convinced to take magnesium supplements, despite the glowing recommendations by both patients and various cardiologists/EPs. My Vitamin D level was a little higher at 112 nmol/L in January from the previous 107. All good on that front. But sadly I've just had my first AF for 6.5 months, my first AF since I raised my Vitamin D to a reasonable level. I was hoping I had found a "cure" for me, but alas, I'm only human after all. 14 hours of AF, and I also forgot I had still unused PIPs flecainide and bisoprolol sitting in my medicine cupboard.
I'm now looking for a plan B, or is it C, D, E ... perhaps I will revisit magnesium supplementation. So thanks for the info about citrate.
Bob
Sorry to hear your Afib has returned. It does seem to take a wayward path and there's only so much we can do - if it's going to come back it will. I am promising myself that whatever the outcome of the cardioversion (my first) day after tomorrow I'm not getting caught up in wishing I'd done things differently or believing any single element of the selfcare journey is responsible. I hope I can go on meeting the full catastrophe of life with some joy in my heart and like Zorba the Greek, keep on dancing!
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