Slow Breathing and ectopics

[Padayn01]

Does anyone know why slow breathing gives you a few hours release from ectopics?

[jeanjeannie50]

My personal view on this is that we sometimes become so absorbed in what we're doing, that we breathe too shallow and that makes our hearts protest. By deep breathing the heart gets the oxygen it needs.

People often say their AF started when they were just sat watching t.v. or on the internet - it's happened to me! Yep, it's shallow breathing.

Jean

[Padayn01 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

So ectopics could be caused by lack of oxygen to the heart?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Padayn01]

That's what I think, not seen it written anywhere though.

[Padayn01 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Do you think beta blockers can make them worse?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Padayn01]

I really don't know, but one summer I stopped taking all my pills apart from my anticoagulant and I had 6 months with a perfect heart. I wouldn't recommend others doing this as their heart condition may be different to mine.

My EP had signed me off after 3 ablations saying some people aren't helped by them and unfortunately I was one of them.

Jean

[GrannyE in reply to jeanjeannie50]

How are you now?

Deep breathing is supposed to calm the whole body down.

My ablation got rid of the thumping very nicely but now have A/Fib about half the time and a very irregular heart beat but I can live with it like this providing it does not get any worse. Problem is that when I overdo things I get very out of breath.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to GrannyE]

I'm ok now. Have constant atrial flutter, but going to increase meds to see if that helps.

[GrannyE in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Good luck.

[Hidden in reply to Padayn01]

I think they can. When I stopped taking bisoprolol I had measurably fewer ectopics.

[Finvola]

I agree with Jean about a possible start of ectopics - I think she once described it as ‘waking apnoea’ which I thought was spot on. I find I hold my breath when I’m concentrating on something. I read (or heard in one of Dr. Gupta’s videos) that deep belly breathing stimulates the vagus nerve which relieves the ectopics.

[Padayn01 in reply to Finvola]

So how can you get rid of them for good?

[Finvola in reply to Padayn01]

If only, Paday, if only. . . Mine are much less troublesome since I’ve had Bisoprolol swapped for Nebivolol and was able to tolerate 2.5mg. I find sometimes that mild exertion stops them - backing up Jean’s theory of oxygen depletion.

The one thing I can say is that they love attention - the more we concentrate on them, the worse they get.

[Padayn01 in reply to Finvola]

If only lol...... can I ask how many do you get on a bad day? And did they get investigated? Like did you wear a Holter monitor to catch them?

[Finvola in reply to Padayn01]

In the early stages when my drug regime was still being refined I had PVC’s occurring every other beat and in varying occurrences for hours on end. I can remember it as being nearly as bad as AF at times. 2 x 100mg Flecainide seems to be the right dose for me - with beta blocker. Now I get odd runs of PAC’s at about 6 per minute but nothing like before. I suspect they are linked in my case to dehydration, low salt (like CD I have to take extra salt and sometimes forget) or a stomach upset.

I showed my Kardia trace of the PVC’s to my cardiologist but he didn’t think they were much to worry about. I also think my ectopics are not as bad as many others on the forum describe - but I still hate them. Dr Gupta’s breathing exercise is the only thing which has worked consistently for me and I do the breathing for at least 10 minutes.

[Buffy-1 in reply to Finvola]

Where can I find Dr Gupta's breathing exercise.

[Finvola in reply to Buffy-1]

Here:

healthunlocked.com/afassoci...

[mikelocke in reply to Finvola]

I’ve observed a similar pattern, the extra beats never seem to start when being active. Due to my mix of meds (flecainide and verapamil) my heart rate goes down to 45bpm at rest. The ectopics are likely to kick off at that point. I’ll give the deep breathing a go.

[GrannyE in reply to mikelocke]

I find deep breathing helpful too.

[Lbeat796 in reply to Finvola]

I agree. My attacks always caused by pressure to neck, where I am assuming vagus nerve is situated, either by turning head or bending down. I put pressure on back of throat as if blowing which I think called valsaver manoeuvre and if I am lucky it stops. But everybody is different

[Padayn01 in reply to Lbeat796]

I get lots of palpitations when I move my head suddenly or bend my head down it’s awful

[mikelocke]

Yes, I think you are right. although I don’t like fiddling with the med mix, I’ve been thinking about going back to the doc and looking at reducing the verapamil.

[CDreamer]

There are several reasons - as Jean says we can breath too shallow, especially when we feel worry or anxiety which changes the proportions of gasses in our system. Breathing fast and shallow raises oxygen we take in but breathing fast means we don’t actually get good gas exchange, which is a signal to the body to go into Fight or Flight mode, raising heart rate and breathing fast and shallow to take in more O2 as the body thinks we are going into action - but we don’t so we get into a downward spiral of symptoms of anxiety. Slow breathing reverses the process a bit like breathing into a PAPER bag - it will raise CO2 - which helps the body reset itself out of Fight or Flight.

Learning to breath through your nose and take LSD - Long Slow Deep breaths all of the time helps prevent them.

Oxygen exchange takes place in the lower part of the lungs so keeping the breath there for longer means better oxygen exchange, more oxygen in the blood means that you stay in Rest and Digest mode and don’t go into Fight or Flight and therefor feel less anxious = more chance of steady heart rate. The key is Long, Slow and Deep breaths - reduce breathing rate to 6 or less per minute.

Everyone has ectopic beats, they are harmless and normal but when we get anxious or we are under the weather they can be problematic because we feel them more and I’ve not had them very much at all but on the few occasions I had them whilst recovering from ablations I felt rotten but they went away with rest, LSD and relaxation.

[GrannyE]

Thank you for that. I agree with all you say completely.

[Bmwpaul1971]

I used to get ectopics on resting mainly, and it was depressing and debilitating. Truly made life horrible. QOL was awful.

I too would hold my breath due to anxiety and stress and I too had shallow breathing.

For me the correlation between the two was strong. Plus, Bisoprolol made them worse as it was slowing my heart too much, which made it over compensate - My theory, don't know if true?

I have read many times on here people who seem to suffer ectopics after ablations? It would be interesting to know why that happens?

[Padayn01 in reply to Bmwpaul1971]

How are your ectopics now? When I take the beta blocker all it does is softing the strength of the ectopic beats than when the beta blocker wears off the ectopics are stronger

[Padayn01 in reply to Bmwpaul1971]

Same like you I get it on resting also

[Loopylou527]

I do not find deep breathing helps with my ectopics at all. At least half of my beats a day are ectopics. I have been put on Bisoprolol but doesn’t really seem to be helping much apart from bringing my blood pressure and heart rate down even lower than it was before. I have had 24 hour ECG tape and echocardiogram and am currently awaiting an MRI scan. My Cardiologist has suggested an ablation may be the best treatment.

[Padayn01 in reply to Loopylou527]

Hi thanks for this, do you have AF also? i had an ablation 10 months ago, and in the last 2 weeks been getting very bad ectopics

[Loopylou527 in reply to Padayn01]

Hi, No I haven’t been diagnosed with AF but have read if the ectopics are left for too long and have a high number everyday, they can turn into AF.

[Shrek1974]

Glad you’ve brought this up. I somewhat agree about the shallow breathing and have come to recognise that recently. I had my second DC Cardioversion in early March as my AF returned (on Bisoprolol), I was switched to Sotalol. My trigger for AF was doubtless viral (who knows, quite possibly C19?) so I am thinking of asking to go back on Bisoprolol as my QOL was much better on that & when AF returned, my HR was held relatively low & took me probably a few days to realise. I’ve been struggling on Sotalol since - all I want to do is sleep & my ectopics give me an awful time with an indigestion like feeling. I was long past these ectopics by now the previous time (on Bisoprolol) I cannot get to see my consultant (private) & don’t really want to jump the gun on any advice, I wrote an email approx a month ago in desperation but not heard back other than a standard - not seeing private patients currently which is understandable in the current situation.... I’m thinking about just contacting my GP now as this is really getting to me.

Any advice welcome. Thanks in advance. Steve

[Padayn01 in reply to Shrek1974]

Hi Shrek1974 like you i get very bad ectopics, and i don't know if the Beta Blocker is making them worse, im currently on 25mg Metraprole and 10 months post ablation for AF, i do get some relief from my ectopics when i lie down but all day they are bothersome, and when i find time to do shallow breathing for 20 mins i try and do 8 breaths a min i do get some relief