What SUPPLEMENTS & VITAMINS must one avoid while on ELIQUIS 5mg and BISOPROLOL 2.5mg, Based on what source?

For years I have taken Omega 3 Fish Oils, Vitamin E 800 I.U., Garlic caps, COQ10,

Ginger caps, Turmeric, Milk Thistle, Cinnamon, Quercetin, Magnesium chelate, Echinacea, Grape Seed, and several other items. These suppplements have been of great benefit to me. The doctors can't agree on what is clearly OK, and the pharmacist(s) say I should ask the drug company. They in turn send me back to the doctors and pharmacist. I did a lot of online research myself and even here there is contradiction to be found like the NIH, Drugs.com, National Library of Med., and many of the well known online doctors. plus other sources.

Has anyone here have any good information on this subject or any recommendations? Thank you for reading this and taking time to respond. This should be of benefit to all.

[Blavet]

Good morning. Just read your post. I used to live in Enniskillen Northern Ireland and there is a pharmacist there who also specialises in herbal medication. She has her own shop there called natures choice and her name is Nuala Lilley, she is a wealth of information. She has a face book page too, so maybe you could contact her as she maybe of some help to you. All the best

[Hidden in reply to Blavet]

Thank you Blavet for your suggestion. I will make note of it.

[MarkS]

I would be very cautious. I posted this a few months ago of someone taking cinnamon and ginger with a DOAC, "Adding herbal products to a DOAC can be fatal":

healthunlocked.com/afassoci...

[Hidden in reply to MarkS]

Thank you MarkS. The frustrating thing is that there is very little trust worthy info.

Although fish oils/omega 3 is a no no, the FDA has approved monographs of Omega 3 drugs stating that there is only a minor concern if at all with blood thinners. Sadly I can't find where I saw this in my research.

Here is more on this; " Fish oil supplementation in doses of 3-6 grams per day does not seem to create a statistically significant effect on the anticoagulation status of patients receiving chronic warfarin therapy."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/107...

This is what I mean about the contradictions to be found.

NOTE : Not intended as medical advice .

[Auriculaire in reply to Hidden]

I take fish oil 1000mg a day , turmeric every other day, Ubiquinol ( co Q 10 ), NAC and magnesium taurate. Dr Gupta advises magnesium taurate. Before my colectomy I had a blood clotting test ( I was not on Apixaban then). My blood clotting was not affected by any of the "thinning"natural products I was taking . Without them I might have been in the "sticky" blood category. Or they don't work that well at diminishing clotting . So I am continuing to take them alongside my Apixaban as I was taking them for other reasons anyway.

[Hidden in reply to Auriculaire]

If I may ask, is your doctor aware of what you are now taking along with Apixaban?

[Auriculaire in reply to Hidden]

I might have mentioned the fishoil . He thought the curcumin was ok. Most docs know little about food supplements. Having been floxed 4 times in 30 years I have little faith in doctors anyway.

[Hidden in reply to Auriculaire]

I too have been through the ringer and my trust for the medical profession in general is not the best.

[irene75359 in reply to Hidden]

I completely understand your quandary; I was told fish oil was fine and continue to take it. I also self-test my INR every 10 days or so.

[Hidden in reply to irene75359]

Goes to show you how the lack of correct and stable information is missing for all to make use of it. With Apixaban you can't test yourself .

Thanks.

[Crystalbowl]

I consulted a herbalist recently to see if she could help with the PHN ( post herpetic neuralgia) pain following a bout of shingles in January. I also have AF and HF and take Carvedilol 50mg, Furosemide 40 mg, Spironolactone 25mg, Riveroxaban 20mg, Candesartan 32mg for those plus 30 mg Amatriptilyne and max dose of Paracetamol daily for the PHN. I also take Omega oils, Vits B, C and D plus garlic. I have taken all sorts of supplements over the years but had honed down to those since being on all the meds. The herbalist checked everything and also the herbs she was prescribing for the PHN against everything else and said OK to continue. Her remedy did not sort out the PHN so have not continued with that.

[Hidden in reply to Crystalbowl]

Although I no longer practice it I'm a Chartered Herbalist, and I can tell you that the available information is not updated as it should be. There is so much going on in the medical field with new discoveries that up to date info is hard to find no matter what branch you are checking into. Herbs and vitamins are not patentable so since no money can be made as with drugs, research funds are few and far between.

[Polski]

My impression is that garlic and fish oils both seem to have 'blood-thinning' effects, vitamin E does but less significantly. I'm not sure about ginger and turmeric. Echinacea, ginseng and licorice can all be problems with AF itself.

Some sites say no to anything and everything just to be 'safe', so I try to identify those and ignore them. Of the remaining sites, if the same substance crops up on several of them then I take note.

Small amounts of garlic/ginger/turmeric in cooking are unlikely to be a problem, but taking them daily for medicinal purposes could be a different matter. I had problems with bleeding after a small operation recently, which we tracked down to the NOAC so the doctor decreased the dose, which gives me some leeway for using some of the above items. The cinnamon is great for keeping my sugar levels down, and turmeric is good against inflammation and so pain from arthritis.

I guess we all have to decide what level of risk we are prepared to take, for the sake of an acceptable life-style. It is all about also managing our various other problems.

[allserene in reply to Polski]

I avoid thinking that because a lot of people think something, then there must be some truth to it. 45% of Americans, say 150 million, believe in alien abductions.. Don't start me on religion lol..

[Polski in reply to allserene]

The 'remaining sites' are those which are saying no to just a few items, so they are much more likely to have some genuine information to base their decision on (rather than just the general assumption that 'supplements are bound to be dangerous'), so I trust them much more.

[allserene in reply to Polski]

Yep, I got away with a ton of sugar yesterday. I had to hand my liqourice over to my wife and ask her to hide it, coz liqourice is like crack-cocaine to me. Also I am convinced that more than 2 beers of 5% abv, sipped gently over 2 hours minimum, WILL rev my flutter up about 2 hours later. I risked a whisky on the plane (free voucher) and got away with it, but to me, sugar (liquorice or booze), and dehydration are the triggers.....

[Ianc2 in reply to allserene]

Only 45%? Thanks for an amusing post.

[Hidden in reply to Polski]

Polski you are so right.

[rosyG]

Because of the lack of proper information, I don't take anything with has an anti-coagulant effect= like garlic which I love! It seems logical not to when we are taking an anti-coagulant. One doesn't want to risk an intercranial bleed!

[Hidden in reply to rosyG]

RosyG Of course you are correct. However, I think we deserve to have the complete information provided to us. After all the Drug makers are supposed to have made the studies according to the FDA before they can put a drug on the market. Their sales reps call on doctors to educate them so they can educate the patients. But it seems this is not the case as it used to be.

[Hidden]

The efficacy of supplements on their own, with food, with prescription drugs with fluids any combination of the above seems nigh on impossible to accurately predict, just how you would set up any kind of trial to establish what was what? My doctor, cardiologist and now surgeon all very caring and professional in their dealings with me have never asked about my diet or if I drink alcohol or take any form of supplementation or indeed take any form of recreational drug therapy. It seems strange to me but then I do follow a diet plan of sorts, I do take some supplements like those already mentioned and so place a value on what I put in and my health in general. As to wheather the drugs companies feel there is no profit to be had in supplements an article found here would seem to disagree. zionmarketresearch.com/news...

[Hidden]

The drug companies know that supplements are highly profitable. As a matter of fact big Pharma companies have purchased many supplement companies.

The problem they see is that most herbs and vitamins can't be patented .

Although some have entered the market with minor alterations and patented the item.

One is an Omega 3 "drug" similar to fish oil but so called pharmaceutical grade but priced in the $400 a month range !!! I would dare to say that typical good quality fish oils are probably 95% in the same range as this product. I believe the American FDA has approved

the drug monograph as showing that 3-6 grams are possibly safe.

NOT intended as medical advice.