Nattokinase

[tombeaux]

Has anyone used nattokinase instead of pharmacological anticoagulant?

If yes, then what did you experience?

How did you measure efficacy (can you still use protime/INR) and were there any interactions or conflicts that most long time users of warfarin/coumadin are familiar.

[doodle68]

Hi Tom would I use Nattokinase as a prophylactic, possibly.

As someone with diagnosed AF and at a high risk of a stroke, would I take Nattokinase instead of an anticoagulant, no I wouldn't.

I have found no trials as yet that suggest it is a reliable substitute for prescribed anticoagulants but I understand there is a trial underway

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

[tombeaux in reply to doodle68]

Let us assume that you no longer had AF. Would you still address coagulation and if yes, then how?

[tombeaux in reply to doodle68]

I have been monitoring that clinical in SoCal since 2014. I wish they would get on with it. I have also had dialog with Dr. Holsworth and Dr. Gordon who use it routinely for anticoagulant. I am still in a wait and see.

[BobD Volunteer]

Here in UK there is no effective "natural" anticoagulant although of course warfarin is from natural sources.

OK some products can reduce clotting but it is that lack of measurability which is the problem. In answer to your last question, there is a body of thought which suggests that even successful ablation does not stop stroke risk and most of us here continue on anti-coagulation even after a successful ablation.

AF changes the substrata of the heart making eddy likely and thus the possibility of clot formation and ablation does not change that, in fact the scar tissue may actually add to it.

[tombeaux in reply to BobD]

Well Bob for the first time in many years I have learned something regarding AF, albeit my research has shifted to endocrine and mitochondria specific.

I own a NAD+ treatment center in Florida and am a fellow of the Brain Restoration BR+ global network. My business partner is a Georgetown MD with an undergraduate from Yale in Chemical Engineering. My cardiologist was also from Georgetown and served at the pleasure of President Bush (41).

Both have shown interest in my research, which includes two patents. Thank you for your commitment to knowledge.

Yes the Wisconsin Alumni hit it big with Warfarin! Fun historical here itmonline.org/arts/warfarin...

[KathFrances]

Yes, I took it for a while instead of conventional anticoagulation and had no side effects from it. But I couldn't find out what dose to take and also any way to test its efficacy. So now I reluctantly take dabigatran, but at the lower dose of 110mg, as my CHADsVASC score is only 2. I would prefer to continue on nattokinase but didn't feel safe re stroke risk without knowing how much I needed to take. Different companies recommended different amounts. Do you have any information on this?

[tombeaux in reply to KathFrances]

no and one of the two reasons i have not jumped. i corresponded with holsworth and gordon. I need empirical data. why is the socal study stalled for 3 years? reeks of pharma causing delays because if the studies concludes value then big pharm will crap their pants. They already have their hands full with the Xarlata class action, etc., and the Wisconsin alumini will be right there with them. lol

the other factor is with warfarin everything either increase or impedes its effect. I need to know if natto has similar problems. What is so tempting about natto is there is almost no way for lipid protein alpha to form and will keep the arteries clean and free from stenosis/calcification. That is appealing, ebolic strokes and aneurysms arent....to be determined.

[tombeaux in reply to KathFrances]

i am having to recall from research for 3-5 years ago. fibrin measure, protime/INR, viscosity and I think hct/hgb plasma pack was the third way of measuring thinning and anticoagualtion.

[KathFrances]

Possibly, but none of these measuring tools is available to me and no-one I spoke to in various nattokinase companies could point me to a way to do or get these tests for myself. So reluctantly I have to conclude that at the moment I can't test it. I agree there's a lot of stalling and if/when nattokinase can be fully tested and proved, it will be a revolution in the very lucrative anticoagulation industry. You sound like you've got your finger on the nattokinase pulse, so I'd be very grateful if you could update me on any progress on dosing and testing as I'd love to be able to switch to it and feel relatively safe re stroke risk.