THE TRUTH ABOUT ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE AS IT RELATES TO PROSTATE CANCER, THE MYTHS, LIES AND SOME FACTS

[billyboy3]

As one the longest surviving prostate cancer patients, some 26 YEARS, I have also been actively involved in pushing drug trials and finding ways to stay alive until a more permanent drug regime is found.

I am a senior level project manager and business consultant. As part of my practise, I was asked to set up an alternative medical clinic, next to a large alternative medical supply store. There were some 26 practitioners of various kinds, from herbal medicine, reiki, homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathy, aromatherapy, etc.

I had access to all of the patient files, over 2,600. I had started to put this clinic together prior to my pc diagnosis of a return of my cancer. None of them knew of this. When I raised the issue of whether any of them could treat pc, I was met with waves of stories from them of having cured pc patients, having never lost a pc patient etc.

When I reviewed the files, I found NOT find a single person who had been cured of any type of cancer. When I came forward to them, I was provided with the names of patients some said they had cured. I met with several-others had already died of their cancer. I did NOT find a single patient who had been cured. NOT ONE.

What did find was that these so-called medical experts, had exploited their patients to extract as much money as they could from them. Sadly, this was the case for 95% of these people.

When I then requested information on their various treatment modalities, I was fed more of the same nonsense. In the case of herbal medicine, I was shocked to find that there were NO scientific tests that they used to support the various medications they were giving patients. I found that they would prescribe certain plant parts-leaves, roots etc. to be made into teas etc. In other cases of similar drugs being SOLD to cancer patients, the herbal group would prescribe certain cocktail mixes but again, NO scientific tests were made a part of any treatment I reviewed.

They would tell a patient to take a certain drug or combination with no tests to confirm how much to take, how long to take and when to stop taking this drug or combo. In other words, they were SELLING drug treatments to patients with no way to test whether the actual amount of drug being provided was sufficient, too much so that it caused other medical problems for these patients.

IT IS INSANE TO GIVE SOMEONE ANY DRUG OR ANYTHING FOR ANY AILMENT, UNLESS YOU CAN ESTABLISH HOW MUCH IS NEEDED, HOW LONG IT SHOULD BE TAKEN, AND WHEN TO STOP THIS MEDICAL TREATMENT.

This is beyond scary to realize that this large group of so-called medical experts, are making huge sums of money by dumping drugs onto unsuspecting patients, often desperate and in need of help.

I am aware that many of our drugs do come from plants, so that with proper supervision and observance of proper medical procedures, and the proper manufacturing and ability to know exactly what is in each drug taken, it is acceptable.

I can also advise those who think there is some conspiracy to prevent a cure of any cancer from becoming public, this is TOTAL NONSENSE.

THE FACT IS THAT IF ANY COMPANY OR PERSON COULD CURE ANY CANCER TYPE, THEY WOULD BECOME VERY WEALTHY. THUS, THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANY CURE WOULD BE HIDDEN.

FURTHER, OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS, THE LARGE PHARMACEUTICAL FIRMS HAVE PURCHASED THE MAJORITY OF THE FIRMS WHO MADE VARIOUS ALTERNATIVE DRUGS AND COMPOUNDS, SO YOU WILL NOT FIND ANY ALTERNATIVE MEDICAL SELLERS, WHO ARE NOT OWNED BY THE PHARMA RACKET.

In summary, it breaks my heart to see so many people attempt to find the holy grail of a cure for pc when NONE exists at this time. It is also heartbreaking that so many fall for the various scams that are ever present on the net and elsewhere.

It is criminal in my view for anyone to promote or offer for sale or otherwise, any drug that has not been tested and validated through scientific testing procedures.

It is further most upsetting to me to continue to see posts on this site that promote such nonsense, as all it does is create unneeded stress and uncertainty for those looking for help, not realizing that they are being scammed, often by well meaning people, but who are ignorant of the facts so come to our site and make unproven claims as to a cure for pc.

I would urge caution to those who creates these posts as they are causing great harm to those in need.

Lastly, as is my way, I urge all advanced PC patients, to LIVE LARGE, create a bucket list and max out your remaining days. Do not spend your remaining days in chasing the phantom cure. Trust, that when a cure for PC is found, we will ALL know about it almost instantly that the scientific proof is made public.

STAY WELL BOYS!!!! HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR

BILLYBOY

[Orange95]

Is it possible for you share your successful management of PC? What did you do to be able to be around for 26 years? All your treatments were done as SOC in Canada?Thank you

[MrG68]

That's quite a sobering post eh?Was it just natural products they were pushing? Or did it include things like ivermectin etc?

When you say didn't 'cure' them of cancer, I wouldn't expect anyone to be cured depending on the definition of what a cure is. But I assume you mean that they didn't benefit from any of these treatments. Is that right? I'm just interested to know how this data was able to show that.

My thinking is, if there's no cure, the aim should be to benefit somehow in terms of say life expectancy or whatever. How did they measure/record that?

To me, it just reiterates the need to choose the best evidense you can get as opposed to rely on things like anecdotal information etc.. at the moment that's RCTs.

[WhatHump in reply to MrG68]

Thank you for this overview.

I have two degrees in Engineering, but have spent 43 years in the trading and investing business. I tell my girlfriend that I always listen to a little of the weekend morning radio, all over the country. I listen to them because they are generally divided Into two camps. Financial and medical. I want to see what the latest lies and slick delivery that these predators use. They all prey on fear, whether medical or financial. I find it intellectually fascinating to listen to the weasel words that they use that keep them out of legal trouble, while at the same time essentially promising certainty of good outcomes. Fear drives people to believe unbelievable things. Thank you for your meticulous evisceration of one of these predatory practices.

The other group that I find disgusting are those who are healthy but advocate for these snake oil cure-alls because it’s part of what in their group believes.

Mainstream medicine certainly has its own shortcomings. Especially big Pharma. But these hustlers are an order of magnitude worse.

[Hidden]

There are still no cures, even from the mighty pharma companies.

[Jac_J]

you sir, are a statistical outlier.

Drinking tea to cure cancer? If anyone pays for that they deserve to be poor and potentially sicker.

[Lemonpower]

Thanks for telling it like it is. I lost my dad in September to PCA. Five years of pain and struggle. I would often read about vitamins and diets and supplements that worked. But then reason would prevail, and I realized that few of these things would work for my dad as he couldn't walk well etc and was 75 at diagnosis. The real problem - he was diagnosed too late because he lived in the UK, which has worst cancer survival rates in Europe, because NHS is too overwhelmed to deal with early screening. It sucks.

Thank you to this group for being my comfort as each subsequent treatment stopped working.

🙏

[j-o-h-n in reply to Lemonpower]

May your dear Dad enjoy his rest and his farming with the angels. God has his/her eye on you for being a wonderful daughter through all you own trials and your love for your dear Mum and for your Dad, the Angel.

j-o-h-n

[dhccpa in reply to Lemonpower]

I'm sorry to read about your Dad. Did he use those alternative things? Instead of standard treatment? I wasn't clear from your post.

[Lemonpower in reply to dhccpa]

No he didn't, but I would research a lot for him, as each set of treatment seemed to fail after a few months or year. So I knew his battle against PCA was always a question of trying to find the next standard of treatment.

[dhccpa in reply to Lemonpower]

Thanks

[Nusch]

There’s no bio.

[iloweredmypsa]

Thanks for all that great information. I was diagnosed about a year ago, and I started to take some supplements to slow my psa doubling. I looked at a bunch of university research, picked a few things, and started taking them. I also changed my diet some. I got a few drops in psa over the last 11 months, from 6.4 to 4.7 to 3.3 and last week 2.45. Is this some kind of voodoo, or meh, no big deal, or what? with all your experience I would appreciate your point of view. thanks!

[billyboy3 in reply to iloweredmypsa]

First, I need to know more and I would digress to tsk Allen, our resident smart guy!

That said, losing weight is good, as I working out if you can, a good diet and lastly quit smoking and drinking are all good steps to take.

I hope your seeing an oncologist as a psa of 3 or higher is not good. Again, need more information!

[iloweredmypsa in reply to billyboy3]

thank you for your consideration.

Month 0 begins with the results of my prostate biopsy, which was positive for prostate cancer, self-contained, Gleason 3-4, with a 1.4 cm index tumor.

It was now that I found myself a decision point, the same decision point so many like me have also faced… Do I take the easy path, changing nothing while waiting for the inevitable surgery? Or, do I take my life into my own hands, make the necessary lifestyle changes, lower my PSA and avoid surgery? I chose the latter, and started with the basics: Water, Food, and Air. While not a heavy drinker, I stopped drinking alcohol completely. And under the care of my urologist, I had been taking testosterone supplements, 0.4ml once a week since 2018. I stopped them also. In late 2017, I tested low for testosterone, in the upper 100s twice. The supplements brought me up into the normal range and life was grand: more pep, more active in every way, even the limp in my right leg disappeared. Then with my PC diagnosis I stopped and I haven't had any through 2024. Strangely, my testosterone level dropped down to the lower range of normal, but did not dip below 300. It was my understanding that it would return to below the level when I started, but not only did this not happen, but my new baseline was more than 50% higher than when I started.

The first thing I needed was a reliable source of information to begin my research. I already knew about Google Scholar, which has been an invaluable tool in my research as an protein enzyme scientist. Rather than regular Google searches, Google Scholar searches University Research Papers, the ones the Professors write as a result of the research they conduct as well as PhD student's Thesis publications. It's cutting-edge knowledge from credible sources, often too close to the edge of man's knowledge to be used in everyday medicine. According to my Primary Care Physician, emerging cutting edge medical knowledge still lacks primarily two things: 1) toxicity, and 2) drug interaction testing. Despite these risks, when standard practice medicine told me it was time to remove my prostate, I learned many things which made the surgery choice undesirable to me, so I turned to Google Scholar for answers to prevent surgery or radiation. And I deal with toxicity and drug interactions by starting slow anything new that I was doing and listening to my body for problems before slowly and systematically increasing dosages.

Water

For years, I have read and heard that most drinking water is loaded with impurities, and any liquids stored in plastics becomes a complete no-no for me. PFAs and other new chemicals discovered in water almost on a weekly basis lead me to my first purchase, a water distiller and some glass pitchers. I will drink and cook only with distilled water created in a glass and metal distiller and stored in glass pitchers.

I go vegan to stop taking in IGH 1 (insulin growth factor 1). Two months strict, then I let in some dairy, but not meat or eggs.

Broccoli is the super vegetable and tomatoes have lycopene. Luckily, I’ve always liked broccoli and tomato sauce. This became my eating staple for the first two months. I make my own sauce from Roma tomatoes, garlic, oregano, thyme, and basil. I eat the broccoli tops raw, dipping them into the tomato sauce. If I want to cook the broccoli, I read in this research that I must cut it up and smash it around some, then wait 45 minutes for a chemical reaction to take place so that the nutrients remain in the broccoli.

In addition to broccoli and tomatoes, I found was a study that had one group of participants drink pomegranate juice for a period of time, and another group of participants (the control group) do nothing. They found that the ones who drank the juice had their PSA doubling times extend significantly, meaning they slowed their PSA growth significantly. So I decided to start drinking it. For me, it had to be in glass bottles and to be as unrefined as possible.

I can go into more details, but maybe you have questions for me.

[billyboy3 in reply to iloweredmypsa]

Your dreaming if you think thst what you are doing is going to make your cancer disappear!

Every day you screw around with your approach, your cancer prepares for the attack.

You losing valuable time in not getting surgery- my recommendation if there is a chance of a cure to be had!

It never ceases to amaze me how educated men can be so stupid as to think you can find the holy grail that many thousands before could not find!!

Prostate cancer is a. Common cancer and there are NO secrets as to what it does once it gets lose outside the prostate. Your waiting is not a game Mr friend, but your life is at stake and your playing around like this is a game of chess!!

Go to a cancer hospital in the paletive care unit and ask the men on their last breath of life if you should play this silly game!

You have a very narrow window to be cured so why are you delaying ??

Trust me, if there was a cure we would have found it and become billionaires overnight!

[iloweredmypsa in reply to billyboy3]

Thanks for your take on it. I am waiting for my next MRI appointment. My urologist expect the tumor to shrink in proportion of the relative psa reading, now that it's know PC exists. What he did not expect was that I lowered the number twice (as of August). My call to him will be on Dec 12 and I have a third lowering to report. I am looking for all naysaying evidence I can get, especially anyone whose case is similar to mine. Yes, I may be delaying for no good reason but as this point I have to see the MRI results though. Maybe that result will change my mind. Thanks again for your response. It's appreciated.

[Nfler in reply to iloweredmypsa]

If something works for that long, keep doing what you’re doing n avoid the naysayers. You can always go to soc which Is not a cure down the road…

[Wgly in reply to billyboy3]

You avoid becoming a victim of SOC- average treatments, certainly a worthy goal if reversible as needed.

[Nfler in reply to iloweredmypsa]

That’s excellent

[Nfler in reply to billyboy3]

His psa is 2.4 not3, down consistently from 6.4, I’d say that’s rather impressive especially since it was doubling…

[kreg001]

my grandfather spent his fortune on attempts to cure my grandmothers breast cancer. She sat in mines in Switzerland and Colorado with “radium rays”. She ate various seeds and weeds and blenderized smoothies concocted from shellfish. Then there were static electricity mini van de Graf generators and a few Tesla coils she would grip.

She passed at a real cancer hospital in 1965. Thirteen years of scientific medicine and surgery mixed with outrageous quackery.

[billyboy3 in reply to kreg001]

Sad but true and there are many such stories which is why I am so adamant that these types of posts be restricted as incredible damage is being done to the innocent and desperate.

[rydemps]

my dad has got you beat! 30 years next month and he was stage four with lymph mets he was diagnosed at the age of 47. Unfortunately, it’s starting to catch up to him, which is why I’m here.

[gsun in reply to rydemps]

How about filling out the bio? then we can see what your dad’s story is.

[rydemps in reply to gsun]

I’ve tried and I’ve had as much as I can since it was 30 years ago there’s a lot he can’t remember but essentially he was diagnosed at age of 47 and 1995 with a PSA of 104 and a Gleason score of 4+2 with metastasis to the nodes. He received very strong courses of radiation and then went on Lupron, which was working for about 20 years until he started to have PSA rise, which is when they put him on xtandi about seven years ago and now his PSA is rising again so we go back after Christmas to talk about next steps.

[billyboy3 in reply to rydemps]

I am amazed that with that high psa and a high Gleason that he survived this long on just lupron then xtandi! There are a few options, best is get most recent psa and any scans and ask talk allen in our site. He is now 77 so like me, we are the lucky ones who somehow managed to keep our cancer at bay for this long. It would be great to have us tested etc as there has to be something I our dna that allowed us to live this long! Keep us posted!

I have a cancer hospital going yo do genome testing etc so try to understand what/how we were able to fight this long. We had very different treatments which just adds intrigue as to how we made it this long!

Wish him well for me as a longtime warrior bro!

[rydemps in reply to billyboy3]

thank you for your kind words! We go back on December 26 with new bloodwork results and to discuss with his medical oncologist next steps. I will probably be posting on here at that point what everyone’s advice is regarding our options. I think that a PSMA will be ordered and probably moving him from sandy to. Some other form of treatment. I’m hoping he doesn’t have to go to the chemo route yet because I know that scares him more than anything.

[No_stone_unturned in reply to gsun]

Yes please

[Explorer08]

There is no cure for prostate cancer. The hope is for durable remission. - Dr. “Snuffy” Meyers.

[MrG68]

Yep, IMO the only thing that can 'cure' you is your immune system. Even then, it's more like it manages it since it's in your design to have cancer every day, just the immune sysyem deals with it. Impossible to cure you from something implicit in your design.It stands to reason to me to try and support your immune system as best as you can.

So, the way I see it, if you can take something that does that, why not - conventional or alternative.

[billyboy3 in reply to MrG68]

You are wrong in a number of the issues you raised. There are cancers that have be n. Red by boosting the immune system true, but drugs can will cure done ca feed, pc is not there yet.

It does make sense to help your immune system as much as possible in order to assist your body to stay strong while the cancer and drugs to fight it off, do harm to your body.

I was making the point that there is NO CURE for pc yet, no matter what you do!! The majority of alternative medicines, vitamins etc are a waste of money and false expectations in addition to one causing serious damage to the body if too much of some vitamins are taken!!

[NecessarilySo]

"Most in vivo studies have confirmed the anti-cancer activities of lycopene, particularly in prostate cancer. "

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

[billyboy3 in reply to NecessarilySo]

It does NOT cure prostate cancer! Further, please provide us with the “most studies” details you noted exist about lycopene this so we can read about this.

Use if words like many/most without providing proof of these so-called studies is harmful and should not be posted in out site!!

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to NecessarilySo]

👎 viva in vivo lol

[billyboy3]

These agdin DO NOT CURE PROSTATE CANCER !!

[billyboy3]

I agree except on our site we have experts- not me, and others, like me, who have a lot of knowledge and to have posts put on our site is disrespectful to those who have died and those currently in treatment. It is stressful enough to have to undergo the treatments without having fairy tales posted that HAVE NO varsity as to the reality!

I have sadly had too many men who opted for alternative treatment only to find it did not work, and the delay proved deadly as their early demise proved out, as early treatment, as I got, is a key to longevity once you have pc!

[j-o-h-n]

L A U G H T E R.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[iloweredmypsa]

I have a relative who cures cancer regularly at a large pharma using mRNA type vaccines and CRISPR technology. To my best understanding, an mRNA substrate is spliced with a portion of the cancer DNA using CRISPR that differentiates it from normal cells, then that product is infused into the patient's immune system cells. That result is grown until sufficient cells are created. Finally, that is reinjected back into the patient. The problem they are trying to overcome is the one at a time issues associated in creating personal vaccines for each individual. The success rate is 80 to 90 % but you can only get into the program after every other treatment has been exhausted.

[billyboy3 in reply to iloweredmypsa]

God damn you for this post. There is NO cure for advanced prostate cancer at this time so stop spreading this lie. Provide the name of this so-called pharma who are doing this treatment and as well the names of the top medical staff at it. You should rot in hell for posting this rubbish as you are causing a great deal of harm to our boys in need. If there was a cure for PC, the entire world would know about it and every cancer hospital would replicate this treatment.

You are a sad sick person and I hope you get banned from this site. Wow, hard to believe people would come to our site and create harm to others!

[iloweredmypsa in reply to billyboy3]

I didn't say it was prostate cancer, it's for lymphoma . google.com/search?q=BMS+lym...

[billyboy3 in reply to iloweredmypsa]

this is a site for advanced prostate cancer, nothing else!!!

[Retireddoc in reply to billyboy3]

While I agree with you that unproven alternative treatments may be detrimental to a patient's chances of receiving life extending proven therapy, the tone and words in your post are off putting. Using the gd word and telling someone they should "rot in hell" are not appropriate language for a site that allows men with cancer and their loved ones to discuss treatments and concerns. I have found that those who discuss in a more civil tone/words will find a larger audience who may be receptive to hearing what they have to say.

As was pointed out by the original poster, their discussion actually related to another type of cancer (they should have specified) and actual known treatment protocols.

As I have replied previously, the blanket statement that there no cure for prostate cancer that has escaped the prostate gland is incorrect. Men with limited spread to the pelvic nodes are potentially curable with radiation and ADT. There are highly reputable medical oncologists at COE who have been treating oligo metastatic disease with aggressive triple therapy, MDT to the few metastatic sites and primary treatment of the prostate with either RP or curative intent radiation.There are many men multiple years out with undetectable PSAs who continue to be monitored. The treating physicians believe that some of these men may actually be cured although additional time will tell.

[Nfler in reply to Retireddoc]

Amen, somebody needs to keep this guy in check w his dictator n profanity ways… Thank you

[Nfler in reply to billyboy3]

Billy boy you need to chill the heck out, you sound like a complete dictator, chastising people n cursing at them on this site. There are many that appreciate peoples testaments what is working for them. We all have brains n can discern for ourselves what’s true n false and appreciate their experience. We don’t want to have one person tell us what we can n can’t do to fight this dreaded disease. So if you can’t say anything nice n diplomatic then don’t say anything!

[billyboy3 in reply to Nfler]

Sadly this site had a reputation as a place where men with advanced prostate cancer could come to get information and treatment options etc. it has now let too many put in lists about various remedies etc that have no place on our site and have no validity in regards to the truth and facts:

You are wrong in terms of men being able to tell the Charletons and false claims as most men do not have the education or knowledge so are easy targets for those who spout falsehoods.

Allowing these posts it reduces our sites quality of care and lowering of respect that it used to have in the medical community.

If I can stop one man from going down the dark path of dome magic pill, then it is worth the abuse I and others are getting when we stand up against these phoney purveyors of falsehoods and claims of a cure for pc!

[Don_1213 in reply to billyboy3]

I had found your discussion prior to this posting interesting and somewhat informative, and more or less in line with most of my beliefs about alternative medicine - but this outburst of bile really causes me to reconsider my earlier thoughts. It shows you to be a very angry man, and that limits any desire for discussion with you. I'll be tuning out of what had been an interesting thread up to now.

[billyboy3 in reply to Don_1213]

That is fine but understand that this is not a game, we are dealing with the lives of men , and in the case of some less educated and knowledgeable, can be easily swayed into believing some of the falsehoods bring allowed on our site.

Spend some time at a cancer hospital and- or with a man you know who fell for one of these scans and delayed getting medical treatment until it was too late. I have along history of volunteer work so have seen far too many cases of this nature so will fight the people who bring disaster to our men in need.

If my war like manner offends you, I apologize but make no apologies for going after those Charleston’s as once a man waits too long, he has lost that time and reduced what remains, because someone convinced him they had the holy grail of a cure, when none exists.

[CAMPSOUPS]

cruciferous vegetables maybe only maybe and nothing else. And if any benefit it only benefits healthy men looking at possibly preventing but it is a real real long shot.

Nothing to be promoted what so ever to be promoted to stage 4 men with an estimated expiration date on their head.

[ulfhbg]

I can relate to the fact that, the more advanced prostate cancer you have the less possibilty you have of being treated and ’cured’

Of course it’s impossible to look at all cells in the body in order to secure that there is not one single prostate cancer cell left (active or dormant). But the other scenario is not possible to check either; that all prostate cancer actually have died or have been removed from the body

I like the term somebody said; a ’functional Cure’ where any possible prostate cancer never manifests itself again during a persons life (if the cancer cells are still there…)

Cure seems to be one of the most hottest subject anyway and like I Said, with advanced metastatic disease the possibility of a potential Cure is to say the list really limited. But then of course there are those who don’t follow the collective and have a ’functional Cure’…

[No_stone_unturned]

great post!

[billyboy3 in reply to No_stone_unturned]

Thanks. Some did not like it but I tell it like it is, not some dream fantasy world vision some spout! I have been around to many men who have died of pc to care if I ruffle feathers of the ignorant, who only do damage to our guys!

Merry Xmas !

[No_stone_unturned]

This post is so important. It’s important to be reminded that currently there is no cure for mCRPC. Winning is staying in the game long enough that we possibly don’t die from it. Take the last decade of treatments for example. The progression of suppressing drugs have changed the game 10fold. However, it’s a bit of a Houdini trick in as ADT and Arpi’s do not kill any T-cells and will inevitably fail as well as cause more challenging mutations to treat.

MO’s like Eugene Kwon from Mayo Clinic often speaks in terms of cure and makes the case that using the term “stage 4 “ in regards to metastatic prostate cancer is out of convenience. Meaning that it doesn’t behave like other stage 4 disease and technically speaking, “staging” shouldn’t be used. He argues that an individuals disease is entirely dependent on how it responds to treatment. Therefore he suggests throwing the kitchen sink at it from the get go or triplet therapy in the way of: ADT, Arpi’s and chemo, then pluvicto.

Killing T-cells and combating inflammation is where my focus is now. I did not do chemotherapy and only radiated one trouble area. In hindsight I may have done it different back at dx, but it’s neither here or there now. Point is, if we can kill T-cells and keep the cancer in remission, it’s effectively a cure. I’m currently reading Guy Tenenbaums book, but I’m not aware of many patients who have gone into remission after being dx stage 4 g9, de-novo. Even as anecdotal these cases are, I’d be foolish to ignore them if I want the best possible outcome for myself.

Where there is hope, there is life.

[billyboy3 in reply to No_stone_unturned]

Very good post and it is a turkey shoot, for me the combo IHT worked for 26 years but now a new set of sets and. The rules change, they have been very hard with no break, so I am opting for a break soon, if nothing else but to clear my brain!

Lupron, pred and lastly a drug I cannot recall as my memory is deteriorating quickly , not xtebdi hut abirterone gir it!

Point being, we fight as hard as can for as long as we can, then get to say, cancer your done! And boom end of our war!

Remember we all pave the way for the next round of guys coming behind us, so our efforts will save lives in the future!

Stay well and LIVE LARGE!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL

and may the new year give us some peaceful days in between our fights on the front lines!

Billy

[No_stone_unturned in reply to billyboy3]

You as well Billy!! Much love.