I have been trying to find the source for the observation? that "Testosterone to prostate cancer is like gasoline on a fire". I finally asked Bing Copilot and ChatGPT-- who came up with the answer.
Me:
What is the source of the "gasoline on a fire" theory in prostate cancer?
ChatGPT:
Dr. Patrick Walsh coined the phrase "gasoline on a fire" to describe the effect of testosterone on prostate cancer during a lecture at the American Urological Association's annual meeting in 1971. This analogy vividly illustrates how testosterone can fuel the growth of prostate cancer cells, emphasizing the importance of hormone therapy in managing the disease.
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VoxHope
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All based on Huggins - a study of one person 75 years ago. He also found that supra physiological levels of test kills prostate cancer - conveniently hardly ever mentioned.
so, let me get this straight. Lowering T in men with metastatic PCa does not prolong survival? Really??? Or , men with T of 1000 do no worse than men with T of....500?
I doubt Walsh said anything that was based on "study" of one man.
The relationship between prostate cancer growth and testosterone is, and has long been, “accepted wisdom”. If it is based on the study of one person, there has been a major medical misadventure affecting us all. As much as I respect and revere Dr. Walsh, who was clearly a brilliant surgeon, I would like to hear what a student of the medical literature, such as Tall Allen, thinks about this. In my own case, lowering testosterone radically seems to have reduced the spread of p.c. to undetectable, but I was on other drugs as well. I took Aberaterone acetate and Eligard for several years. Then 2 years of nothing until PSA began to rise again. Now on Erleada and Orgovix for 3 weeks. No test yet of their effectiveness. Too early.
She encouraged me to take a break. I got a second opinion from an oncologist at Hopkins who also thought it would be no problem. I had two full years free of ADT. The cancer is back now though, of course, as everyone knew it would be,
I read in one of Morganthaler's books or papers than he went down into the basement and read a Huggins paper and said the same thing. Huggiins based his conclusions on just one patient.
Read the Huggins study and you will see the results of a one man trail. How long does lowering T prolong survival, on average? 5, 6, 7, 9 months maybe, as seen in the RCT that have studied this? Not long enough to live with the debilitating side effects - I would rather have a better quality of life with higher T than live 9 months longer. Personal choice, I suppose.
He recently published an update of his famous book, but appears to have been mostly written by his minions. I read it, and imo, is behind the curve, and as always he bangs the loudest drum for surgery
What they leave out about castration drugs is that their effects are only temporary - and (if I recall) the original observation that anti-testosterone drugs reduced tumor size omits the part where the cancer came surging back later. Anyway, someone should warn all those young, testosterone-filled men about this terrible danger!
Here is what I found on this subject; its astounding really. The entire "zero TET is best" regimen is based on very slim evidence that its necessary. I was jacked up about this when I read and published these articles; take a look.
...that was some time ago. I have since ended a total of 21 months of ADT; it did its work. My TET was a low of 3 ng/dL and it hovered near 10 for the entire time. I have since (miraculously) recovered my TET to about 250...my TET going into surgery RP was 319 (best as I can figure out as NO ONE took my bloodwork as a baseline; dont ask). Soooooooo, I should be almost 'back to normal,' or close to it...no, I am not.
My libido has never recovered. I have only one friend that also had PCa and radiation followed by a few years of ADT. He told me Libido just does not come back. I have 'Mental Libido;' if you show me porn I react. But my 'Visceral Libido,' that feeling you used to get in your gut that you want to screw is gone. I am very sorry to have lost that; its a cool thing.
So, be careful as to 'what' are your trying too recover by pushing up your TET. TET is great for many other things for sure; I feel a HELL of a lot better now with TET at 250. My strength is back; hell, my body hair returned! I work out hard and I have been able to add muscle mass finally! But my Libido...that is a sweet thing of yesterday...that is my story. Others may have a different recovery; I hope...Rick
Important note: By the time you regain that "Visceral Libido" feeling you won't remember what you're suppose to do......... (Helpful hint, think of your UserID "Mount on Ana")......
If the former, then low-T is clearly the way to go for lowering PSA very low (it is the basis for ADT)..
However, if the latter, then High-T is the better way to go. Abe Morgentaller from Harvard Univ. has published 142 articles on high-T and prostate cancer that supports this statement.
Do a PubMed search on testosterone and Morgentaler. It will open your eyes.
You have posted that you are an engineer by trade, so I gather that you are familiar with this basic circuit that depicts the diode's quiescent current. Now look at it from a PCa perspective:
1) The DC source (electromotive force) is the element that establishes the Voltage potential. Parallel it with Testosterone and the other hormones that can supply energy to the PCa cells depicted as the active element aka the Diode.
2) But, the current flow is limited by the series resistor which is nothing less than the energy flow restriction imposed by the Anti-Androgen mechanisms.
3) Last, but not least, the "diode response" curve is the PSA, which as it should have been is non-linear (surprise-surprise).
Morgentaler's saturation model of the influence of testosterone on PCa growth rates (linear, then flatline after saturation at T > 250-300 ng/dl), is another example of a highly non-linear system.
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Low T could hasten time to post-RP biochemical recurrence.
Prostate Cancer and using Androgel to Re-activate Testosterone Levels
