ADT, Weightlifting, protein and vegetarian diet

[sammycanine]

Hi fellow travelers,

This is my first post after two years and after reading many threads I believe I can get some answers here.

I've been on the full ADT regimen for two years, and while I have not been able to gain much muscle mass, I've kept what I started with a maybe firmed it a bit with weight training. Those who are doing the same know how painful it is to work very hard with the weights and just keep your head above water. I also do at least 4 hours of cardio per week.

As a next step I am considering the recommended vegetarian diet. But I wonder, how does one get the needed 75-100 grams of balanced, complete protein that someone at 5hrs per week exercise needs...especially when also lifting weights? That's a lot of beans and rice.

Thanks everyone for your responses in advance.

[Tall_Allen]

What evidence is there that a vegetarian diet is beneficial?

[sammycanine in reply to Tall_Allen]

nutritionfacts.org/blog/tre...

Ornish also has data from trials.

[Tall_Allen in reply to sammycanine]

Ornish relied on 93 volunteers for treatment and comparison. The patients who followed his diet also quit smoking, started exercising and attended stress management training. The people in the control group were told to do none of these things.

auajournals.org/doi/10.1097...

We do have some actual science from the MEAL trial (n=478). It proved that adding more vegetables to one's diet has no effect on progression. Granted, they were still eating some meat, but if there is no "dose effect" we are justified in being suspicious that the cancer suddenly behaves differently when meat consumption goes from less to none.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

Here's a detailed critique of Ornish, written before the MEAL trial:

scientificamerican.com/arti...

[MrG68]

I could find no evidense that a carnivore diet had a detremental effect. To me that would suggest that a vegetarian diet won't have the impact that people believe it will.

Here's a post from earlier.

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

People did post some studies, but when you read them they're based on surveys or opinions. There's nothing I've seen with any high level quality of data.

Hope that helps.

Edit: for protein you could consider pea protein, and soy products. IMO the best soy product is natto. It's defo an aquired taste. Having lived in Japan, I love it. But be warned, its not for everyone. Just make sure you get one with organic soy beans since they're usually GMOs. This is where nattokinaise comes from which also has health benefits.

Legumes are supposed to be decent as well. If you go that way, I think you may need a lot and to cover your bases to get a complete protein profile I'd eat a wide variety.

[mrscruffy]

There are plenty of protein supplements out there. Not sure if you would be successful building muscle on supplements alone

[Mike1971]

There are bean protein supplements, soy protein, hemp protein, etc.

Annecdotal side note: I ate a plantbased/vegetarian diet for almost 30 years and still got stage 4, spread Gleason 9 prostate cancer…

[JohnInTheMiddle]

Hi Sammy. You'd like to "get" some answers here. But you haven't contributed anything in your bio. We don't know if you're on a GnRH agonist or antagonist. I bet it's Lupron.

Also you haven't said anything about your prostate cancer. This forum says "advanced". That implies "terminal". Because "metastatic". Not the group of people where you're going to "live with cancer not die from cancer". Once cancer leaves the prostate all bets are off and it's hardly even the same disease anymore. "Resistance" awaits!

All that said your question is still interesting. Most people don't get enough protein when they're exercising! And it's hard to exercise on zero testosterone. And even exercise itself is hard to understand - we are learning about the importance of building metabolic fitness as the foundation for all fitness and that the volume of Zone 1 and Zone 2 exercise is very important. Before one gets to higher intensity strength training.

Sounds like you're off to a good start on understanding how to do vegetarian properly. A long time ago for quite a few years I was vegetarian and after a while it gets easy and natural to think about combining proteins. Now I eat lots of meat and eggs and cheese. Also sardines! And vegetables and salads and tree nuts too! I have a good appetite which apparently is a good sign!

[MateoBeach]

Getting sufficient high-quality protein is very important. Vegetarian/Vegan is just a lifestyle choice. Cancer doesn't care what macros you eat. Though there are at least several micronutrients (phytochemicals) that appear beneficial. What about being a lacto-ovo vegetarian? I am an omnivore but supplement with a whey powder protein "shake", quick easy and very high quality, if you don't want to eat meats, chicken or fish.

[rickyfish56]

A "Plant based diet" with fish is what I am on, if it does nothing for the PC, so what? My cholesterol is the best it's ever been, my stamina is tremendous, my weight is great, feel better than I have since in my 20's!

No more sluggish feelings from meat and sugar, no more insulin peaks and valleys, so if my Plant based / fish diet isn't doing a thing for the Prostate cancer, the other benefits are certainly worth it for me!

The "standard American diet" is poisonous" just look at the epidemics of disease in our country.

And it gives me something I can do to give me a sense of control, so no down side I can see, all positives. But individual decisions, but has been of great help to me.

[sammycanine in reply to rickyfish56]

Thank you

Your logic is perfect.

[Scout4answers in reply to sammycanine]

I gave up sugar, white flower (grains,) juices and dairy , 10 years ago. It changed my life. With veggies you can eat all you want and not gain weight. I went from 205 to 175 in less than a year and am now the same weight and waist size as I was in college. As for cancer... being fit is the best defense against all illness.