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Is Adrenal Fatigue caused by ADT/Abir... - Advanced Prostate...
Is Adrenal Fatigue caused by ADT/Abiraterone?
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Derf4223
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What is adrenal fatigue?
Uh, isn't that what prednisone is for? Whatever "it" is?
If you are referring to difficulty sleeping and feeling like a couch potato while having brain fog, etc., etc., just Google the side effects of the meds you’re on. I think you’ll find them all there and more. All I can say to you is exercise, exercise, exercise! I’m on Orgovyx 80 mg and Xtandi, 160 mg daily. You have to say no to side effects. I’m 76 and walk 6-11 miles daily, as lift weights 3-4 times weekly. You can do this.
Agreed. Against all reason, the harder I exercise, the better I feel, and the less fatigued I am
Amen to that
Really doing exercise regularly will getting some extra strength to the body. I always likes to do morning workouts for one hour every day.
🎉Exercise, exercise, exercise!🎉
Wyn - Bravo your comment on exercise. Over the last 18 months since DX I've come to the same position.
It's interesting how the literature that we are usually handed says "exercise is good for you". But such comments are like "a pat on the head" and not that helpful - or motivating. And kind of missing the boat too.
From what I've come to understand, and it sounds like this is where you're coming from too, is that exercise is scientifically and massively important in circumstances of cancer and especially in our case of metastatic prostate cancer.
Specifically there is strong evidence of the possibility that intense exercise might contribute to putting off resistance??
QUESTION: May I ask how many total hours a week you might typically put in on say "intense" exercise? My goal right now is 6 to 10 hours of intense exercise volume. I achieved this in July but then in August I gave in to fatigue!
I'm also learning about how to exercise and for example the difference between anabolic and catabolic exercise, or resistance vs aerobic etc.
Let's keep on keeping on 😀
16 to 25 hours weekly although I do better with the longer hours.
OMG. Have you written about this already here?I'm assuming you are a retired or semi-retired? What do you mean you do better with longer hours? (I have had this experience myself at my lower level of exercise.) Why do you exercise so much - just because they've always done that or you have the idea that it makes a difference with PCa? Are you also deep into the research as well?
Your level of exercise is fantastic to read about.
I exercise about 2.5 hours/day -- walking in the woods, aerobics, and bowflex resistance stuff. My body is not up to exercising like I could do 20-30 years ago, I am osteopenic, have osteoarthritis, etc. So I have to make up for it with more hours at less intensity. Also we eat little meat (no red), no alcohol, no dairy. Sugar is a big weakness. I find it very helpful to take a classic electrolyte replacement drink before and after exercising -- not a lot, maybe 4-6 ounces but it has cut the odds of cramping a lot. Also keep tylenol and ibuprofen handy but only take as needed.
Hi- My Hopkins MO has just put me on Lupron(3month shot) and wants to add abi- claims Orgo is not SOC- if I might ask, what rationale was useful in getting you to Orgo? Thx
I have several metastasis in ribs, lymph nodes and spine. I simply wanted the daily pills. I’m not necessarily a SOC type individual. Our plan is a vacation at approximately a year in and I believe I can get the most time vacationing this way. It has also worked very well, I have no pain and side effects are controllable with exercise of the body and brain. A side note, I had the 3 month Eligard only regiment in the past and it worked as well with little side effect. God’s blessings on your journey!!
Read my reply here:
healthunlocked.com/advanced...
It starts "I'm on Firmagon almost 2 years..." and then goes on to compare Orgovyx, Firmagon/Degarelix and Lupron/Eligard.
Exercise is indeed ADT’s Kryptonite. Some will suggest cardiovascular, some will preach weight training. Both are equally important, even off ADT. On it they are critical. Plus some yoga/stretching and balance work.
Yet most don’t do any of this. ‘I know I should’, getting ready, buying a gym membership next week, letting an injury heal first, when I go on holiday and my T returns etc. Or just ‘I’m too tired’. Or just not doing it.
Yet all should know: The most dramatic benefits of exercise are enjoyed by the least fit and strong. The health improvement made by going from little or no exercise to the lowest level above that is more than any other.
This leap is transformative if the behavior change is maintained. Inspiring not a strong enough word.
Trying to do too much too soon sends many back to the easy chair as well. Men are especially prone to this. All that stuff about taking the stairs instead of the elevator, not sitting when you can stand, parking further from your destination etc are spot on. Everything helps-everything. Opportunities to exercise of this type are constant, all day long. All are big difference makers.
Thanks for your post. “The most dramatic benefits of exercise are enjoyed by the least fit and strong.” I can relate to that. I used to think walking around town and playing golf couple days a week made me fit. I now have a trainer putting me through the mill in the gym. Feeling much better as a result.
That’s great. I meant to say the most dramatic improvements are enjoyed by the least fit and strong but you understood it as that so I’m glad.
Any guy on ADT who can lift but doesn’t should know what you know: it’s the ultimate game changer for aging. Not only does it extend life, it enhances the quality so much it’s staggering to the uninitiated.
London: Your comments regarding the importance of exercise are fantastic and motivating! And I loved the "kryptonite" reference 😀
Here are comments that provide a different perspective:
1. EXERCISE BENEFIT - You have highlighted the value of exercise when on ADT. This is a true reference in terms of quality of life (QOL).
But this QOL benefit misses what is perhaps even more important in the world of metastatic prostate cancer.
As I reference in my reply above, there is strong evidence that intense exercise might contribute to putting off castration resistance. For some people, exercise-for-living-longer is a different and possibly even more powerful argument than exercise for quality of life. (Let's label this alternative benefit "TOL" 😀 for "time-of-life").
I mean after all, if you haven't exercised until now, and you're out of shape, despite everybody whining about it your whole life, are you really going to start now?
I think for some people they are just going to say "I'm going to enjoy the time I have left".
2. TAI CHI - I have had the enormous benefit of a full review with an oncology physiatrist (there aren't many around). From her feedback and from my own reading, for older people Tai Chi is much preferred over yoga. For sure, Tai Chi has lots of balance work - but is also comparably much less hard on the body. And in terms of our objectives Tai Chi is therefore likely superior to yoga. (As for stretching there's a lot of controversy based on research as to its putative value.)
Thank you for the additional input on the ability of exercise to delay castrate resistance. It’s hard to be succinct when touting the benefits of exercise since there are so many.
More data all the time indicating exercise not only delays castrate resistance, but biochemical recurrence, time to metastasis and much more.
In fact, exercise is the prime metric by far in delaying everything we don’t want health-wise. It protects the heart and keeps it working well; improves body composition, controls blood pressure, prevents bone loss, cognitive decline and other neurological problems, insulin resistance, accidents and falls, just about everything.
Yoga can be gentle enough; some like Pilates, some Tai Chi. My feeling is one’s preference should be the guide; you should do what you’ll do consistently. As long as flexibility and balance are a part.
Stretching is essential but active over passive (static) is what I like. Included in all of those practices. Again, to each his own.
‘TOL’ philosophy? ‘Just enjoying the time I have left’ means something different to everyone I suppose. Modern medicine is already doing way too good a job of keeping people alive past their bodies’ expiration date. As you know, it’s what we do to intervene on the decrepitude that radically improves those last chapters.
My motto is: I don’t want to outlive my good years voluntarily.
Great discussion London! 😀
Especially your expanded list of the benefits of [intense] exercise is fantastic:
"More data all the time indicating exercise not only delays castrate resistance, but biochemical recurrence, time-to-metastasis and much more."
My concern, and this is based on my own experience, is that the importance of intense exercise as an adjunct therapy supporting primary treatment goals is not something that is front and center as it should be.
This important message seems to be lost in the noise.
You have also listed important additional benefits of intense exercise, such as related to osteoporosis and sarcopenia and blood pressure etc. Apparently, exercise has a huge positive effect on these risks. And thus again contributes to both quality of life and improved overall survival.
My summary of all this discussion on exercise is that immediately after diagnosis and stabilization, that one's doctors should immediately present the opportunity for a program of intense exercise.
Because exercise is not just good for you, it could be really, really good for you. It's something you can do. Even if you never did it before.
This out-of-the -gate guidance after diagnosis didn't happen for me. And from what I understand it doesn't happen for a lot of people.
I guess I need a motto. It will be something about "contributing to my family as long as possible" 😂
Not sure there is hard evidence that exercise delays castrate resistance as far as I am aware. Hope others can give further clarification on this. Yes, exercise does make one feel almost normal. Certainly it can relieve the fatigue that most people feel when on ADT.
Most studies about exercise vs PCa used patients already with CRPCa. Here is an article that talks about how exercise modifies DNA reduces lethal progression, and more: urologytimes.com/view/the-e...
I think we can all agree that reduced lethality for whatever reason trumps becoming castration resistant anyway. Exercise buys time -- not a cure.
I was diagnosed 11+ years ago. The only real exercise I did for most of those years was tennis from May thru September along with some golf. I took up Pickleball this past Spring and played a LOT. I typically played everyday for 3 hours (intermittently) and sometimes even longer, even during hot days here in NYC. It was the BEST “therapy “ I ever had for my body, mind and my “robotic” knee which was replaced 6+ years ago. I would get completely wasted from playing longer than I should and would do so even though I would often get muscle cramps ( which I could usually, but not always,“catch” before they set in too badly). Pickleball had a HUGE positive effect upon me. BE ACTIVE!!!
You guys don't believe me......but I'll say it again......... at night close your eyes and don't open them as you build a log cabin in your mind (stone by stone, log by log)........you'll never make it pass the first floor................. mind over matter.......... A word to the wise is like talking to a wiseguy.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 09/10/2023 5:25 PM DST
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