Dealing with relatives into holistic ... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Dealing with relatives into holistic healing and Reiki

EdBacon profile image
82 Replies

I recently had a get-togther with my my extended family, despite my high levels of pain from APc. One couple who was there offered to do Reiki on me several times when I explained that I was having pain from my cancer. I hadn't realized that they were into alternatives and holistic healing or I wouldn't have discussed my cancer and SOC treatments I was doing.. I politely declined the Reiki, making sure I thanked them for their concern. Then I got what amounted to a lecture about how there are methods to treat cancer that worked with the body and were "co-operative" vs. all of these adversarial methods (like I was using) although they didn't come out and directly criticise me doing chemotherapy and other "conventional" approaches. It just really felt condescending and made me feel like things were my fault because I didn't follow this "natural" path of healing. The whole thing left me depressed and I didn't feel arguing with them. I knew these people had no clue about treating cancer, but they could go own ontheir way and live in their fantasy world bubble beacuse they are healthy.

Just wanted to share this here because I'm sure people can understand and maybe some of you have had similar experiences.

82 Replies
leebeth profile image
leebeth

Yes! I had a friend offer the services of her friend who is a hair stylist, who had cured her husband’s cancer with a nutritional approach. My friend was quite put out that I wouldn’t talk to her, because this hair stylist is an EXPERT! Don’t get me wrong, I love my stylist, but the only cancer advice I would seek from her would be info about hair care after cold capping.

Apparently this stylist is much more of an expert than my husband’s oncologist. 🙄

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to leebeth

Yeah, sounds typical. And when you aren't interested, they can get an attitude like "See, that's why you are in this situation to begin with!" The reality is that I wouldn't be alive today had I followed their phony "treatments". It can be really mean at times because some of these people use your own suffering against you as if it's proof that they are right. This phony "treatment" stuff does damage in so many ways.

leebeth profile image
leebeth in reply to EdBacon

While even Cleveland Clinic acknowledges that Reiki can be helpful in some cases, it’s the attitude accompanying the suggestion that is so annoying! I didn’t need stress reduction until they annoyed me, lol

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply to EdBacon

amen

Kentucky1 profile image
Kentucky1

Other peoples "knowledge" can sometimes be over whelming, especially when you're just trying to get through the day. I understand where you are coming from, when you're just attempting to have a normal day and someone tries to tell you everything you are doing to stay alive is wrong.It's your decision as to what treatments you choose. I'm doing SOC and rely on it to be the mainstay of my treatment. I also do alternative treatments as long as they don't interfere with the main treatment plan. So far I've done energy healing, acupuncture, massage and am currently following the COC protococol of off label drugs to potentially interrupt the metabolism of the cancer. More holistic treatments have included a healing ritual from a Peruvian shaman( a unique cultural experience) Rife machine treatments and prayer sessions with a Jesuit priest and pentecostal church members.I've even had a controlled session with a therapist using "magic mushrooms". So I guess what I'm saying is , your body, your life ,your decision. Choose your path and live your life.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Kentucky1

That's great that you are also doing proven treatments. These people who offered me Reiki are against all "conventional" treatments, and think that holistic and natural "treatments" diet, etc. are all you need. While they are not outright critical, it's just under the surface.

mrscruffy profile image
mrscruffy in reply to EdBacon

Don't worry about those people. I have relatives like that, I ignore them and stay away from them. SOC for me although I have had cupping and massage for occasional pain I don't put a lot of faith in these things

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to mrscruffy

I agree. Normally I would just blow off this kind of thing, but being down and in pain from the cancer makes it harder because I'm not strong right now. I won't discuss my cancer with them again, that's for sure. With some people, It's like discussing religion.

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to Kentucky1

you are brave Kentucky, I’m following you!

Nusch profile image
Nusch

That was the major reason why I didn’t share my disease with other people expect my wife, my sons and my mother. I wanted to remain a „normal person treated like a normal person“ when meeting with extended family & friends or colleagues. Looking back to the last years, this was the right decision for me. Having said this, I know Reiki and a close friend of mine delivers Reiki treatments to my mother. My mother loves this person and therefore has a high degree of trust. My mother says, her pain (not from cancer but from age and Parkinson) decrease during and after treatment. Reiki is applied complementary only and she fully follows the SOC for Parkinson.

So I think Reiki can provide similar benefits like meditation / but only when you trust in and relax during the treatment.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Nusch

I've kind of taken the opposite approach about sharing my situation although I do so less these days. I felt that fairly close relatives were safe to share with, but won't any more. All in all, I feel it has benefited me but there have been times like this one where it hasn't.

I'm more guarded now, but a while back when I wasn't I was on a walk and ended up talking to a complete stranger about my cancer. He started enthusiastically telling me about his sister and how I should see her because she has cured 2 people already with cancer. He was so excited about this, and really tried to convince me to see her. He wasn't condescending at all and I actually thought it was a great experience, to literally have a "guy on the street" tell me about how my cancer could be cured by his sister. He was so sincere, convinced and so excited about it. I knew who his sister was but didn't admit it.

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to EdBacon

We all make the decisions which are good for us, there is nothing like a „one size fits all“. I think our decisions also change over time. I think, if I would have been DXed couple of years earlier I would have shared with many as well. Main reason for me, not to share was: I want(ed) to be treated as a normal person. Not to be asked all the time, how I feel, if my status changed etc. Just meeting friends and sitting together, discussing & laughing as before. Maybe other times will come but for now it’s good as it is.

Huzzah1 profile image
Huzzah1

Over the years, I've read plenty of articles about people with all sorts of cancers - celebrities, regular folks and men on this forum who have changed all sorts behaviors, diets and treatments. A few have been "cured", most were not. Right or wrong, I believe that we all have a set of genes that are going to do what they are going to do. Our best hope is to let current science and SOC do their best. We all know super "healthy" folks who have always done everything "right" who died at a young age - my younger sister who was a champion cyclist who dealt with an autoimmune issue and died from a blood clot @ 61. Or the opposite - my obese Aunt who smoked a lot every day and is still kicking @ 88. I find it hard to accept these things. I'm going to my live to it's best and hope that catching this beast when I did and proceeding with SOC will allow me live much longer.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

Thanks for sharing that. In my groups we often share stories about well-meaning friends and family who insist that they know what's best for you. And they are so invested that they are insulted by your refusal!

I think that witch doctors work, but one has to be a true believer. Voodoo has always worked that way. I think that the immune system responds to emotions somehow. So the "---pathists" - naturopathy and homeopathy, as well as prayer and laying on of hands can produce a benefit among believers. I'll put in this category diets for which there is no reliable evidence, all manner of vitamins and supplements, and toxic substances (like ozone and apricot pits). Belief can be so strong that they ignore or discount all contrary evidence.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Tall_Allen

Thanks. I think the anecdotal claims we often hear about only appear to be successful because we don't get all the details. We've seen it here on this forum. For example: patients will exaggerate how bad their cancer was with statements like "I had stage 4 prostate cancer for the last 20 years and I've only been taking natural and holistic treatments" You start asking questions and find out they had an RP early on and like many others, have been in remission/cured ever since. So they really don't have stage 4 and likely their natural and homeopathic treatments have done nothing. Once people start believing in things, like you say they become "invested" and it becomes more important to prove they are right. That's why we just have to rely on the science so it's not our personal opinion, but what medical science has proven. You know this, but a lot of others don't and think they know better.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to EdBacon

Yes, of course no matter what they did to achieve their cures, that fact that they didn't die/were "cured" is no prooof at all that what they did had anything at all to do with the result. The few studies of men who chose to do nothing, at least initially until symptomatic, after their N0M0 initial diagnosis, show that many of such men die of other natural causes, not their PCa. This applies even to the high risk men in such studies. Then again, a good number who opt for the max treatments still succumb.

Gearhead profile image
Gearhead in reply to Tall_Allen

"I think that witch doctors work, but one has to be a true believer. Voodoo has always worked that way. I think that the immune system responds to emotions somehow. So the "---pathists" - naturopathy and homeopathy, as well as prayer and laying on of hands can produce a benefit among believers. " Wow. I wouldn't have guessed that this is your belief. I'll have to let this sink in and perhaps relax my skepticism.

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to Tall_Allen

"Belief is the end of Reason", from GoT

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to redstratocaster

Belief is the beginning of reason. We all believe in something and are rational in justifying our beliefs. William James (the father of modern psychology) finds the "Will to Believe" as a fundamental part of human psychology. David Hume famously said, "Reason is and ought only to be the slave of the passions." Jonathan Haidt, following Hume, describes reason as a post facto justification process - our beliefs precede our justifications of them.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Tall_Allen

The problem is that it seems like everything is becoming a belief these days. It's really dangerous when people look at science facts or other facts as something you can simply choose not to believe in if you want. You can create your own pretend world, in the same way that little children sometimes do. There are serious consequences for this behavior.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to EdBacon

I like Jonathan Rauch's definition of science (in "The Constitution of Knowledge"). He says that science must have a consensus of experts based on empirical testing of hypotheses. So, if someone is substituting his own opinion for those of a consensus of experts, he is not doing science.

prostatecancer.news/2022/07...

I believe in science, but we can see the outliers in this forum (and I believe that there are only a handful of very loud and obnoxious outliers) and elsewhere on the Internet, who practice pseudoscience. The problem is it uses the language of science, but the conclusions are unfalsifiable and cherry-picked. Often, they "prove" their assertions with conspiracy theories.:

prostatecancer.news/2021/07...

There's also the Dunning-Kruger Effect - people who spend a few hours doing research on the Internet who believe they know more than a consensus of experts.

Gearhead profile image
Gearhead in reply to Tall_Allen

With regard to science: Science generally provides models of how things work (e.g., Newton's laws of motion). In my pre-retirement profession, there was an often-repeated truism, "All models are wrong, but many are useful."

witantric profile image
witantric

My neighbor had early stage breast cancer (very treatable from what I could tell from talking with her daughter). Went the natural therapy route. She lived 10 years, but had a very painful end. I could hear her scream and groan from my house. I don't mind passing away when it is my time, but I wish to go suddenly without much pain. :-)

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to witantric

A friend of mine ran off to a quack clinic in Reno, NV where the laws for quacks are a lot looser. They milked him for everything he had and then some while providing no real treatment. Since insurance doesn't cover quack medicine, he paid out of pocket for everything. According to his bitter widow, they made him feel like it was his fault that it wasn't working! How sick is that? They don't like stage 4 symptomatic patients like him. Better to have patients that have already had successful SOC treatments and likely long remission so they can milk them longer and get credit.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to witantric

don't we all !!!! ???

witantric profile image
witantric in reply to maley2711

True. My grandmother suffered a lot during her last few years. It was simply horrible to see. My grandfather at age 80 came back from his farm, ate dinner, and told my aunt that he was feeling restless. He slept near a statue of one of the Indian gods in his house to calm down. He was gone in a few hours.

Cynthgob profile image
Cynthgob

yes we’ve had the very same experience!! It’s a bit overwhelming sometimes. Sometimes I just do the eye roll and change the subject. I wish people would think before they blather on about things they know nothing about!

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Cynthgob

I got quite a bit of eye rolling exercise. I hate that air of superiority they had, kind of patronizing because I was obviously ignorant of the truth.

GoBucks profile image
GoBucks

Reiki, healing touch, reflexology, massage, energy tune-up, facials-all these services are offered at our local cancer support center free of charge to all patients with any cancer diagnosis. I have tried them all. They can provide a great respite for those undergoing active treatment.

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito

Ed, yes that is awful, I also would have refused the Raki! No one will ever understand the pain we endure mentally and physically. A lecture is not what any one of us need. I guess you can’t just leave when it’s the fam!

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Miomarito

They have no idea what it's like to go through cancer treatments and have to deal with the pain. When you are healthy, it's also easy for some to assume that what they are doing is superior to whatever the person with cancer is doing. I felt pitied by them but also looked down on. They also live in a place that's known for people being full of themselves and that's part of the problem.

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to EdBacon

I hear that Ed! isn’t it strange as we get older, our world of people gets smaller. I hope it’s because we get smarter and smarter.

sszyszkiewicz profile image
sszyszkiewicz

I had to look up Reiki and my first thought after understanding the technique was “If the practioner was a hot 25 year old, i would give it a try.” ;)

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to sszyszkiewicz

Yeah except these awful conventional SOC treatments have ruined my libido so now I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Although I am still alive and there is something to be said for that.

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to EdBacon

penis’ s are over rated….

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to Miomarito

LOLOL

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to redstratocaster

Red I figured Ed was in need of a good laugh and will prob get this edited by the bosses but, over rated for sure, it’s the vagina that can take a pounding🤷‍♀️

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to Miomarito

LOLOL!!

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to sszyszkiewicz

What a great placebo effect!

WSOPeddie profile image
WSOPeddie in reply to sszyszkiewicz

That reminds me of the disco dance class my wife dragged me to over 40 years ago. Most in the class were cute young ladies.

Poowater profile image
Poowater

I have a brother who has prostate cancer. He thinks he can be cured by his pastor and herbs.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to Poowater

really??????????????????

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to Poowater

that dog don't hunt

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to redstratocaster

oh man🙁it’s just terrible. I feel so sorry!

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to Poowater

Poo, why is your name Poowater, I know that can’t be an Ancestral Indian name???

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to Miomarito

lol again

Poowater profile image
Poowater in reply to Miomarito

Just a name. No significance.

Gearhead profile image
Gearhead

EdBacon: You did the right thing. To maintain domestic tranquility, grit your teeth, smile, and nod when your extended family members are explaining the advantages of Reiki and the evils of SOC cancer treatment. Then, to relieve your frustration and anger, post here about your experience. I hope all the understanding and agreement you've received has offset the strain associated with enduring your family members' stupid comments.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Gearhead

Thanks. I can share it here because people "get it" unlike many who aren't facing a terminal diagnosis like my relatives. Those relatives live in a bit of a fanstasy world. Lots of people have this plan that if they do things the "right way" in terms of lifestyle, diet, supplements, etc. they won't have to worry about cancer. Mike Tyson once famously said "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." We've been punched in the mouth and we now have to deal with it.

Grommi profile image
Grommi

sorry, but Reiki is witchcraft, people tend to believe this more than in God. I have read numerous books on cancer and nutrition, I have heard over 30 speeches on cancer and minerals and vitamins, this is more useful than those esoterica procedures. What I found out is, sugar is very bad, because cancer cells love sugar, raspberries and blueberries are very good, because cancer hates those. A good nutrition with lots of broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower flour etc. is helpful, spices like, jalapeño, curcuma, cinnamon, green pepper etc. I have heard a speech of a professor in Heidelberg, they give broccoli sprouts to patients who have chemo. The broccoli sprouts kill not only cancer cells, but also the spore, which is responsible that cancer grows again. I know of a person, a friend of my daughter, who had stage 4 prostate cancer, he was give 6 months to a year. He flew to California to a special clinic, they sent him home again. Last resort was, a nutritionist, she basically told him how to eat and what to drink, this was 3 years ago. I am not saying, this helps for everyone, but it worth trying, I got us on a Keto diet, and absolutely, no sugar. We will see, at the present time, he receives proton radiation treatment in the HIT center, HIT stands for „Heidelberg Ion Therapy „. With all the information I gathered from speeches, CDs, cancer doctors all over the world, I put together my own list with food to eat, spices, fruit and vitamins. I hope this reply is not to long

Andy1569 profile image
Andy1569 in reply to Grommi

Looks like the NIH is practicing witchcraft 😉

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/316...

Fight On!

Andy

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to Andy1569

well, look at that, so interesting!

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to Grommi

proton treatment requires a low fiber diet to reduce gas in the rectum. Also for a reason I cannot explain they do not recommend antioxidant supplaments during the course of treatment. Some people's gut microbes may allow them to tolerate some fiber but be prepared to change if needed

Grommi profile image
Grommi in reply to redstratocaster

yes, it’s true, but we started to do this anyway, high protein, high fat, low carbs, whole wheat, green veggies, berries, grapes, and pineapple, nuts and Joghurt

Justcallmeamy profile image
Justcallmeamy

hi there. And very very good luck on your journey. I just want to say that I think you were doing the right thing using conventional medicine. However, some of the complementary things like Rekki can help you spiritually, which can only be good for your body as a whole. I have had two cancers, and my husband is continuing with his prostate cancer… And we hate being blamed, Seems like people enjoying themselves when they do. All the best luck.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Justcallmeamy

Thanks, it's a really a misguided attempt to be helpful. I do think there is more to our needs than cancer treatments and we do have a spirtual side and needs. But someone attempting using their "energy flow" to take away my 8 out of 10 opioid level pain is not something I'm willing to waste my time with. Science is required for that.

londoncyclist48 profile image
londoncyclist48

Ask to borrow a large sum of money. They'll soon stop talking to you.

Bloody annoying, I agree. I have these lunatics amongst me too.

duwa profile image
duwa in reply to londoncyclist48

Great statement : "Ask to borrow a large sum of money".....Perfect!!

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa

I do both SOC and various "alternative" things. I've never treated either branch as a religion, though.

pakb profile image
pakb

While I believe in complimentary treatments- they are just that. Complementary. I believe, like Tall_Allen said, that there may be some relief for those who really believe- but not in the form of disease help. More in pain relief and calmness of mind. I do think things like acupuncture are great for pain and calmness- but that won't stop disease progression. When my husband was first diagnosed- we got SO many messages (because we've been very open about his diagnosis- we feel if we help just one person it's worth it). Messages telling us that frozen lemons, reiki, this or that, would cure him. I'm very direct- I say, "thank you! We appreciate so much that you care enough to share that! We truly believe in science and conventional meds and we chose our doctors because we trust their advise. We also do our own research so that we are partners with our docs, but if we didn't trust our doctors we wouldn't be going to them". Example- my husband's nutrition helps him feel better and in control- but it won't CURE him.

Also- I have a dear friend who sent me all kinds of natural cures when my husband was diagnosed. 2 years later she and I were both diagnosed with breast cancer- 1 day apart! She went to her holistic doctor. When she asked her holistic doctor how many of her patients were doing well without chemo- her doctor said 'they're all gone. You need chemo along with your natural stuff. Your cancer needs chemo'. That was humbling for her. I'd just be direct with your relatives. Tell them you cannot be around them if they don't respect your decisions about your body.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to pakb

Thanks, I just remind them that I've been here over 6 years with stage 4 using conventional treatments and they are working for me. That usually shuts them up.

pakb profile image
pakb in reply to EdBacon

Yes! Almost 6 years for my husband with conventional as well! 🙌🙌

spouse21 profile image
spouse21

Thanks for posting this, Ed. The message from these well meaning nosey folks is: "You're doing cancer all wrong" like we're idiots. A new neighbor of mine from Europe suggested some kooky advice that originated with a doctor in France, who's been expelled from the medical establishment over there, for curing cancer patients with some wacko protocol this neighbor wanted me to know about. When I said thank you and that Spouse21 had his treatment in place, she said it was unfortunate that he wasn't "open" to new approaches. I mean . . . please, you just met the guy and you can cure his cancer and besides he goes to his doctors less than you go to all your many practitioners and pay out of pocket? Spare me.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to spouse21

Thanks. It's always amazing to me that the healthy people who have no knowledge or experience are the "experts" on what we should do to fight our cancer. If I wasn't dying, it might be funny. And you are "closed minded" if you aren't willing to waste your time, money and life expectancy trying bogus natural and holistic "treatments".

Underlying all of this there is a subtle "blame the victim" mentality that seeks to right what was wrong. Ultimately all cancer comes from eating the wrong foods or having the wrong lifestyle, etc. The goal is to get back on right path to healing and failure falls on the victim since the ideals of the natural approach can not be wrong.

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster

Sorry about that conversation. These people know NOTHING! Nothing worse than people who do not respect uncertainty and evolved therapies. Cancer care is dynamic and flexible and must adapt to new incoming data in real time. These people wanted you to affirm their corrupt and false view of health and cancer to reinforce their shallow views and fragile likely egos. I have been left depressed by people who have NO CLUE. You just shake your head and THANK God that you are not delusional and not living in fantasyland. Stick to modern science and listen to the doctors and follow REAL science if you want to live. I'm on zero T right now so I would have been polite like you. If I was not on adt I would have been very confrontational and no one would ever forget that day.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to redstratocaster

Having cancer has taught me a lot of things. I think others here will also relate. One thing is clarity, things become a lot more clear when you are told you have little time left to live. It seems like I can see right through bullshit now in a way that I couldn't before, it's like a new gift. Saying what you mean without mincing words is another but also there is an increased sensitivity to not hurting others. So these things sometimes clash and I have to decide if I think the intent is malicious, not always easy. I really care about these people and it's unlikely they would do this to intentionally hurt me, but it still hurts. I wouldn't even be here if I had followed the kinds of non-treatments they advocate.

In the bigger picture, the naturopaths and homeopaths follow an ideal where the body heals itself and their "treatments" work with the body. They focus on the bad side effects and toxicity of "conventional" treatments to bolster their argument, but the unfortunate reality is that treatments that kill cancer also affect the healthy parts of the body, no way around that. It's a seductive argument to say that you avoid all of these nasty side effects, but what good will that do if the stuff doesn't work?

redstratocaster profile image
redstratocaster in reply to EdBacon

I survived kidney cancer in 2000 and had a similar epiphany. The proximity of death helps one focus on life. You are more emotionally balanced than I am, I need adt to keep my flamethrower out of action. Still there are so many lost people out there that live in a imaginary world w/o a clue. All three of my brothers have PhDs in physics and I have a MS in EE so my family is strongly science based. God Bless and Best Wishes to you and anyone who reads this. The Force be With You!

Hailwood profile image
Hailwood

I have a friend who is a wonderful guy, and constantly insists that Marijuana will heal my cancer. I totally agree that as a complimentary approach it has great benefits in appetite stimulation, pain relief, and overall mood help, but as a cure, it is right up there with Reiki. Its not that the help isn't appreciated, its just usually the attitudes that come alongside.

Hawkwoman76 profile image
Hawkwoman76

I believe in your choices and decisions! Sending much love and many hugs!

Carlosbach profile image
Carlosbach

Thanks for the thread Ed. Interesting stories and takes from our group.

The ones that bug me the most are the folks who watched part of a video on youtube, saw something crucial on tiktok, or caught a part of an interview, podcast or article. They have no real understanding of the topic, they know nothing about my specific cancer and treatment, but they are full of unasked for, unwelcome, and uninformed counsel. As Charlie B says when Lucy moves the football, AUUGH!

efsculpt profile image
efsculpt

Remember, we are in an "Emergency" condition and in need of "Emergency" treatment. Holistic approach might be helpful, but needs to be started at birth.

Craig

Carlosbach profile image
Carlosbach

For every story I've heard of miracle cures, there are many more horror stories of when they failed. This is why, although I'm willing to try a lot of things to get better, I am unwilling to push my decisions on anyone else.

Ten years ago my mother-in-law was diagnosed with stage IV cancer. When diagnosed she already had massive tumors, and her cancer was near the end of its progression.

She had a brother who had a "miracle" cure that he insisted she switch to in place of palliative care. The immediate family, who just wanted their mom to be comfortable and surrounded by love, refused to give the miracle cure to their mom. The brother then started slipping the substance into his sister's meds, and started massive arguments, telling the family that they didn't care about their mom, or they would want her to be cured.

Soon after, the treating oncologist noticed puzzling discrepancies in labs and scans. Turns out the miracle cure interfered with some of the medications and was exacerbating the cancer's progression. The brother refused to accept the MO's opinion, and had to be asked to leave his sister's home and not come back. Sadly, when the brother was diagnosed with cancer two years later, he forewent SOC and just took his miracle cure. He died 6 months later.

Cancer2x profile image
Cancer2x

Well…if these anecdotal people had the cure for cancer (It’s over 100 unique types) they would be rich, and get the Nobel Prize in Medicine.

I just tell them I choose to take my medical advice from my doctors, not a random person in a grocery or mechanics or hairdresser, thanks.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Cancer2x

The cure for cancer is hidden in the same place as the alien bodies and crashed saucer pieces.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone

Well, I'll just throw some anecdotal experience to the mix, not sure what it has to do with anything...

As a practicing martial artist, and I'll ask that you try to understand, not Martial Arts in the form of "Sport" as it is applied typically in the U.S., but true "Life Protection" arts... I've seen and experienced a few things that if seen on video, would easily be dismissed. But having "felt" the application applied to myself, I can tell you, there's science, we don't understand fully. And that is only a small experience to what I have "seen" but not felt...

I'm going to bounce around a little...

Western Medicine has traditionally dismissed a lot of Eastern Medicine, Old Wives Tails, etc. Unless it can be duplicated in an verifiable and understandable environment, repeatable, recorded, etc. Not too long ago, Accu-Puncture was Hocus pocus BS and not approved, accepted or even hard to find! Now it's used for a lot of different physical, medical and more applications.

So back to the MA, well, Traditional Chinese Medicine shows there's these energy patterns within the body. Thousands of years of study, not sure what type of experiments were used or how they found this stuff, but those pressure points, energy pathways and science were discovered within the human body. Applicable theory as to Yin & Yang, or Complimentary Opposites also. 5 Element theory whereas both positive, or attractive energy is contrasted by negative or repelling energy. Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water as complimentary, Fire, Metal, Wood, Earth, Water as Repelling. (Wood feeds Fire, Fire feeds Earth, Earth makes Metal, Metal Makes Water) vs (Fire melts Metal, Metal cuts Wood, Wood digs into Earth, Earth dams Water). Yin & Yang exist in all things, Day/Night, Wet/Dry, Up/Down, In/Out, etc., etc. Again, simplistic explanation... But merely words used to try and explain these patterns, these energy pathways, cycles, associations, etc.

Well, I can tell you the science exists and is utterly unreal if you have ever had a 60+ year old Master who has studies this stuff his whole life touch you, grab you, and how excruciating pain can be applied when accessing these pathways in a destructive manner! This is why in the old days, learning the "Healing" arts, were just as valued as the "Destroying" arts... But the healing is crazy too! I have a jow, still cooking (sitting) in a jar, I made over 5 years ago. Its a healing tincture, made from basically 2 pineapple sized packages of herbs and more supplied by a traditional Chinese medicine supplier with reliable credentials. It is a surface bruise jow, not for deep tissue or bone. But I can tell you with absolute assurance, it works! Work out, have soreness, apply, sleep and wake, and it's all good! Twist an ankle, apply a few times and it accelerates healing. And more...

Anyways, Reiki... Yeah, I don't know enough about it to really comment on it, so I won't. But my point is that we don't know, what we don't know! But because we don't, doesn't mean it doesn't work, or isn't real because it cannot be explained in a lab! I would love a lab to try and explain to me, how the Heart Meridian can be lethal, and healing at the same time, depending upon which associated meridian is connected via application of force or Accu Pressure points being activated... Or how stimulating the Water/Bladder meridian has certain effects upon the Kidney! Anyways... Too deep, I'll back up a bit ;)

So... If it works for you, I say go for it! Because we also little understand the power of the brain, subliminal messaging and it's effect on bodily function. There are situations where the mind has been studies, like with athletes who visualize their competition daily or nights before a race, and or have been studied in their sleep patterns, etc. The science revealed the same muscle nerves were firing that are used during the actual physical act, while dreaming or visualizing... Is the same thing occuring with the immune system? Etc.? When we visualize success or failure of a medical application? Who knows... But the so called anecdotal side of things is hard to dismiss at times, even when it's hard to repeat in a lab setting. Same goes for some scientific studies with cancer therapy when the results occur for too few patients, and or the result is hard to repeat in a lab setting. So if it isn't easy, it's not real right? Why when something works but not for enough of a patient cohort are efforts abandoned? We can talk about Testosterone therapy as an example... But I defer...

I know I'm just blabbering right now... But if it wasn't for those who subjected themselves to Accu-Puncture years ago, fighting mainstream science, SOC and medical standards, along with insurance coverage, it (AP) wouldn't be there today helping so many people as an Alternative, or Complimentary effort to standardized medicine!

Einstein said it I believe... That if you follow the "pack" it's easy to see, you will wind up where everyone else has already been! But if you travel a path your own, it is more likely you'll arrive, where others have yet gone before!

Whether that's good or bad, it entirely up to the person traveling the path!

Best Regards

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Cooolone

Thanks for sharing. I agree that there are definietly a lot of things we can't understand or explain, I just don't want to rely on them for cancer treatment or things like pain relief from excruciating bone pain..

But when it comes to pain relief, I am a naturopath. I'm taking natural pain killers. Fortunately for all us, a plant called opium exists so we have a plant-based, highly effective pain killer. From it we get derivatives like morphine, etc. Thank God that it exists in nature. I doubt that Reiki will replace it.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply to EdBacon

My post wasn't and shouldn't be considered an endorsement of Reiki, just that there's much unknown, and we don't know as much as we think we do! Definitely we are benefitted by SOC as we are also those therapies on the cutting edge, spurned yesterday, but accepted tomorrow!

Keep on Truckin'

Don_1213 profile image
Don_1213

How to handle them? Tell them you have to go take a dump, and don't come back. Works every time.

Mrtroxely profile image
Mrtroxely

Hah!The fuckers!!!

I had inderect reffrence from a vegan pleading me to change to vegan because it may be my non vegan lifestyle had caused my cancer and by converting I could help cure my stage 4!!!!

4 months later he called to say his mum had just been diagnosed.

I'll I wanted do was be there listen to him, not offer him or her a new lifestyle....

I'm bombarded with shit of people telling me how ice baths, lollipops up the arse, cucumber in the eyeball or some other thing will help with my cure!!!

Oh!

And

Why don't 'I' start a crowd fund and bunjy jump of mt killamanjaro!

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Mrtroxely

What I've seen is that the biggest experts on any subject are the people who've accomplished the least in their lifetimes. They always know how you are doing it wrong and are happy to explain it, while having no experience themesleves.

Mrtroxely profile image
Mrtroxely

Let's start a crowd fund to get the message out.

Please wear my shoes for 1 evening while I'm crying my fucking heart out at the powerlessness of mine and my children's situation

And the terror at some of what may lie ahead.....

maggiedrum profile image
maggiedrum

I'm sad to say that a very, very close friend, and her husband, are two of the best people I have ever met on this planet. I have to preface the below by saying that I have a bachelor's degree in science with a strong emphasis in biochemistry. I believe in science, but even science, as it is practiced by human beings can be flawed. The way that most trials are done though, mitigate most all of the flaws in the way scientific research is conducted now. Once upon a time leeches were the state of the art in medicine and science....

So, my friend has extreme macular degeneration. This is a horrible disease and the current SOC (from my limited knowledge) involves regular injections in to the eyeballs of the patients. If not treated, and even sometimes when it is, patients eventually go blind. I have another friend who was going blind and it severely messed up their lives.

Somewhere, somehow, she became convinced that "Bucky balls" were a definitive cure for macular degeneration. The evidence consisted of the "inventor" who injected these Bucky balls in to his eyes, which did not have macular degeneration, and he decided to market these as an absolute cure. My friend had to get a second mortgage on her house to pay for the treatment. I tried to convince her that it was snake oil but she would say that I was wrong and to mind my own business. After a while I stopped trying to get her to stop. We are still friends.

And she still has macular degeneration. She has, though, decided to give the SOC treatments a shot since the Bucky balls didn't cure, or even improve, her condition. She as since had significant improvement in her condition. I do not ever say "I told you so". Snake oil has always been popular. It has, though, resulted in many a snake oil salesman to be run out of town on a rail.

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