I found the following interesting. Still have not seen anything definitive on alcohol use after having PC, and particularly vodka (no carbs or sugar, soy like beer, etc) being bad. Not saying it is good either, and I love studies that use words like "may be" "could be", etc. Turns a study into an opinion piece.
Vodka and PC: I found the following... - Advanced Prostate...
Vodka and PC
Written by
Teufelshunde
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42 Replies
•
The language used, like "may be," "suggests," or "associated with," are not opinions. They are dictated by the level of evidence. Stronger language, like "proven," "shown," "causes," are reserved for Level 1 evidence. Peer-reviewed scientific journals should adhere to these language conventions, although sometimes they don't due to poor editing.
healthunlocked.com/advanced...
I understand. But they need to cite the evidence. And with any conclusion one expert makes based on a data set, that does not mean another expert could not interpret the data differently. As we all know, 86% of statistics are made up. 
I agree with citing the evidence. In fact, popular media articles like that are prone to misinterpretation. To me, if the evidence does not come from a peer-reviewed journal article, it is worthless. It may be worthless to patients, even if it does.
Tall Allen .. always with well thought out analysis in his replies… often worth more than a $750 consult with the urologist
Alcohol is a known carcinogen and drinking has been proven to increase the risk of several cancers. I have an occasional drink myself, but everyone should understand the risk. Here are some articles about it, but you can do a search to learn more:
cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau...
thelancet.com/article/S1470...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
ndph.ox.ac.uk/news/new-gene...
I have learned to not pay much attention to general X is bad for "cancer" articles. Like the one I posted, give me data on PC, otherwise not much value to me. And when one comes out contra the general cancer for my specific cancer, I give it much more weight. There is so much garbage info out there. I think organizations feel compelled to publish something just so they can stay relevant. Just a waist of my time and words.
In general, I agree. There are a lot of posts here about the risks of all kinds of things like red meat and dairy with very little evidence to support it. I just ignore those posts. From what I can find, there is good evidence to support the association with alcohol consumption and risks with certain cancers. I'm not saying everyone should stop drinking, just understand the risk.
Life isn't risk free, we just have to be aware of the risks we take and moderate our behavior based on the level of risk. I'm still eating my steaks and ice cream, not giving up alcohol either, although I do drink quite a bit less than I used to.
Everything in moderation as they say!
I agree with the everything in moderation. But with PC there is evidence exactly opposite of the general "alcohol bad". Not going to party like its 1999, but will enjoy drinks with friends and family.
• in reply toEdBacon
I agree!
The important factor is the amount that you are consuming .. I eat cookies and ice cream.. but once or twice a month… it makes a difference if you are downing a half liter a day of vodka or having it in a mixed drink once or twice a month
That is not what the study says. It is daily use.
Not surprised that there was no author cited. The view is the view of the organization & no doubt went through various hands & Legal before being posted. Nice that there is mention of a positive study, but they were always going to fall back on "more studies required". "Level of evidence" be damned.
Am I going to stop drinking red wine because of such negativity? Certainly not before finishing the two cases of delicious Côtes du Rhône I am sipping on right now.
But I not going to suggest you should start! (My lawyer insisted I include that line.)
-Patrick
Vodka is why the average life expectancy for a male in Russia is 54 .. alcohol is sugar . ✌️
noahware• in reply to
Well, alcohol WAS sugar... but it certainly isn't, as you ingest it. A 5 oz glass of wine can have as little as 1 gram of carbohydrate, while a 5 oz glass of grape juice could have about 20 grams of carbs.
So you could actually be on a keto diet and drink some alcohol, exactly because you are NOT ingesting sugar. Alcohol is more directly toxic, of course. But... that doesn't mean either one is good for your cancer!
Ethanol is a nutrient and has caloric value (about 7 cal per gram; carbs and protein have 4 cal per gram, fat has 9 cal). However, unlike carbs and fat which can be stored for future energy use, alcohol is not stored... the liver tries to get rid of it, seeing it as a toxin to be eliminated.
I would say, vodka is not why the average life expectancy for a male in Russia is 54. Rather, WAY TOO MUCH vodka is why the average life expectancy for a male in Russia is 54!
54 for a male seemed kind of low. Looked it up and actually the life expectancy for a male in Russia was from 68 to 76 on three different web sites. Maybe it is lower since the Ukraine war started up.
Agree though that moderation is the best way to go.
Yeah, I was just going with Lulu's number without thinking about it... but when you think about it, it does seem to low for an overall average. I did a a quick search, too, and I'll bet that number comes from this 2014 report: "Vodka is the main cause of the high and sharply fluctuating death rates in Russia, a large new study involving Oxford University researchers has confirmed. Currently, 25% of all Russian men die before the age of 55 years, compared with only 7% of UK men..."
pilot52• in reply to
I have been to Russia, and other nordic countries.....Its the amount of vodka, temporary euphoria is a relief to the masses who live in misery...on a lighter note. I had housekeepers from Nordic countries because of a local flight school nearby and boyfriends attended....They too can drink the stuff like water...Its a hoot....but they do so in a different manner.....Blue Skies , Happy Sunday, Sky King and Penny (woof)
Teufelshunde• in reply to
No carbs in vodka! I think a lot more things at work in Russia.
Booze is a drug like many others. If you like it, good for you. It is not friendly to the primary filtration organ of one’s body. Personally I choose to live without it.
I don’t have the link for this but I’m sure it can be found:-
Alcohol
METHODS
This prospective cohort study uses the Health Professionals Follow-Up Study (1986 to 2012). Our analysis of alcohol intake among men at risk of prostate cancer included 47,568 cancer-free men. Our analysis of alcohol intake among men with prostate cancer was restricted to 5,182 men diagnosed with nonmetastatic prostate cancer during follow-up. We examine the association of total alcohol, red and white wine, beer, and liquor with lethal prostate cancer and death. Multivariate Cox proportional hazards regression estimated hazard ratios (HRs) and 95% CIs.
RESULTS
Alcohol drinkers had a lower risk of lethal prostate cancer (any v none: HR, 0.84 [95% CI, 0.71 to 0.99]) without a dose-response relationship. Total alcohol intake among patients with prostate cancer was not associated with progression to lethal prostate cancer (any v none: HR, 0.99 [95% CI, 0.57 to 1.72]), whereas moderate red wine intake was associated with a lower risk (any v none: HR, 0.50 [95% CI, 0.29 to 0.86]; P trend = .05). Compared with none, 15 to 30 g/d of total alcohol after prostate cancer diagnosis was associated with a lower risk of death (HR, 0.71 [95% CI, 0.50 to 1.00]), as was red wine (any v none: HR, 0.74 [95% CI, 0.57 to 0.97]; P trend = .007).
CONCLUSION
Cancer-free men who consumed alcohol had a slightly lower risk of lethal prostate cancer compared with abstainers. Among men with prostate cancer, red wine was associated with a lower risk of progression to lethal disease. These observed associations merit additional study but provide assurance that moderate alcohol consumption is safe for patients with prostate cancer.
THe studies you talk about are cited in the article I posted. That is where this whole thread came from. I dont put anything in my mouth without a google search of "X and prostate cancer" which usually pulls up several studies on NIH website as well as articles that you can use to research the cites therein. Then decide for yourself.
I had my fun with alcohol when I was younger. Being on blood thinners now it is something I won't touch. And there is this:
webmd.com/prostate-cancer/p...
A long-range Canadian study on people who’d been diagnosed with prostate cancer found men who drank more than eight alcoholic drinks a week had a higher mortality rate than non-drinkers.
And a recent, in-depth study found alcohol ramped up the growth of prostate tumors and speeded the tissues’ progression to metastatic prostate cancer. This means the disease has spread to other areas of the body. The researchers in this case advised men diagnosed with prostate cancer to promptly cut out all alcohol. (It’s key to do it gradually, under your doctor’s care, especially if you drink often or heavily.)
Need cites for those studies you mention since it goes directly against the ones cited in article I posted. Always open to more research but need to read the study itself.
Personally I don't think a drink every once in awhile will harm anybody but being on xtandi and other drugs for blood pressure and everything else I don't want to overload my liver I have to watch my enzymes moderation is the key
Hey Devil Dog! 🙂
Coffee was bad for you, and then it wasn't.Eggs (yolks) were bad for you, and then they weren't.
Wine was bad for you, and then it wasn't.
Fat made fat, and then it didn't.
It's a long list.
Yes, trust the science, oh, wait.😀
Heh. It's usually something like, "The Tea Importers' Association commissioned a study, and found that coffee is bad for you". Followed by, "The Coffee Importers' Association commissioned a study, and found that tea is bad for you."
Lather, rinse, repeat for any consumable you can think of. Follow the Benjamins!
When did the advice on Eggs change for PC?
Drink wine🖐️
My take on alcohol is if you enjoy it and it improves your QOL go for it. My alcohol intake of maybe an average of 7 or so drinks a week has not changed since diagnosis in 2017. I am however trying to eat less fast foods and processed foods but there is no data on any particularly food or drink being specifically ‘bad’ for prostate cancer.
So for those eating curly kale and drinking purified water I raise my glass, bottle or can and say ‘ CHEERS’ as I continue to enjoy the tasty foods , craft beers and wines that I have always enjoyed.
I personally had every logical reason to drink. I came to find out that I was an alcoholic. Going to AA made me face myself by listening to others around the table as they also had every logical reason to drink. I to this day can’t find a reason for me to drink. I’m so high on life I just don’t even consider any form of alcohol. I’m strong and independent when I go to events or into a Casino where majority are drinking. Have absolutely no desire to drink ever again. Now one thing I like is the taste of beer with some meals. Non alcoholic beers suit me just fine. No desire for the alcohol taste in that beer. Speaking from experience if you are making logical reasons to drink alcoholic beverages both with studies and opinions for alcoholic beverages and to ask questions to support your consumption of alcoholic beverages you are most likely an alcoholic who can’t stop drinking alcoholic beverages. Being a functioning alcoholic is still an alcoholic. If you can live with that and justify alcoholic beverages in your life more power to you. But deep inside your very mind in the very corner of that mind you know you can’t stop drinking alcoholic beverages. That was me. Stage 4 Prostate cancer scared me sober. Because at the panicle of it all I had to have all my organs healthy to fight this PC. To weaken them with the use of alcohol just didn’t set right with my body soul and mind.
Until then Cheers 🍻 Bud Zero. 😎
Mr Moose, I appreciate the intent of your post. I am sure many would find it out of line without even knowing the person. Just so you know, sometimes I post just to point out the hypocrisy of much in the medical PC and general cancer community, and lack of adequate research or reasoning on many subjects by many here. My wife is the daughter of two alcoholics, one who drank themselves to death and one who is almost there. I trust her judgement if she saw any problems. She is a smart, high powered, type A attorney who is not afraid to speak her mind. And I am lucky. Cheers, and you should review the study that shows light drinkers fare better than non-drinkers re PC.
Thanks for logic and opinions. Greatly appreciated but I take offense that you suggest that I Re: “Cheers, and you should review the study that shows light drinkers fare better than non-drinkers re PC.” That is the worst thing you can tell an alcoholic to investigate low or moderate drinking is better than non-drinkers. Why you ask? Because just a drop would set me off. Never tell an alcoholic that there is good in drinking just a smidgen of alcohol for the betterment of his health.
You can have the last word if you wish. I’m DONE.
Mr Moose, I sincerely apologize. I dont have much experience dealing with alcoholics, actually none is more correct, so maybe I have a lot to learn. Confused that you drink non-alcohol beer and that is not a temptation to be avoided but reading data from a study would be. Shows how clueless I am. Subject dropped.
Well in my case,I was a fairly heavy drinker for years. After diagnosis I started drinking more heavily. After a couple years of that and going through the shitstorm in my head, I quit drinking, bought a motorcycle and now I am a happy man. 5 years metastatic now. I am 65, keep myself in decent shape and feel great. Sober is better!
Here's a funny one I found....
Why does imported Vodka have such a clear appearance?
So Russians can tell it’s not tap water.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 07/17/2022 10:17 PM DST
Years ago, a GP told me he agreed that limited alcohol inttake has been shown to be beneficial. However, about one out of 50 people become instantly addicted to it. He said they can't recommend something with that high of a risk of addiction. But, if one is already using it in moderation, there wasn't a general medical reason to stop.
Here is the link to the original post's study:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Thanks for that. Seems clear as day that PC does not react like other cancers to alcohol. Even with overall survival. Good to see that.
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