The will to win or the fear of the fu... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

21,056 members26,262 posts

The will to win or the fear of the future!

RusLand profile image
65 Replies

I do not know how much it contradicts the rules of this group, but I will take a chance!

If the moderators consider this publication inappropriate, then let them just delete it!

Readers who will see themselves from the outside through this article, then let them share their comments here!

The fact is that yesterday in a Russian-speaking group on FB about oncology, I read a publication by a woman unknown to me named Elizaveta Musatova and wanted to share it with you.

When translating the text, I had to work a little on the Russian turns of speech so that they would be understandable to the English-speaking reader.. And I think I managed to explain that when Russian people say "students have turned sour" - it does not mean that they are rotten, but it just means that these students have lost their ability to work!))

And sorry for the many emails! Only five pages of typewritten text and not about oncology at all at first glance, but definitely about something very important that we all forgot a little bit about:

«Fifty years ago, the American psychologist Martin Seligman turned all ideas about our free will upside down.

Seligman conducted an experiment on dogs according to the scheme of Pavlov's conditioned reflex. The goal is to form a fear reflex to the sound of a signal. If a Russian scientist's animals received meat on a call, then the dogs of an American colleague received an electric shock. To prevent the dogs from escaping ahead of time, they were fixed in a special harness.

Seligman was sure that when the animals were transferred to an aviary with a low partition, they would run away as soon as they heard the signal. After all, a living being will do anything to avoid pain, won't it? But in the new cage, the dogs were sitting on the floor and whining.

Not a single dog jumped over the easiest obstacle — did not even try. When a dog that did not participate in the experiment was placed in the same conditions, it easily escaped.

Seligman concluded that when it is impossible to control or influence unpleasant events, a strong feeling of helplessness develops. In 1976, the scientist received the American Psychological Association Award for the discovery of learned helplessness.

AND WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE?

Seligman's theory has been tested many times by scientists from different countries. It is proved that if a person systematically:

- feels defeated, despite all efforts;

- experiences difficult situations in which his actions do not affect anything;

- he finds himself in the midst of chaos, where the rules are constantly changing and any movement can lead to punishment — his will and desire to do anything atrophy.

Apathy comes, followed by depression. The man gives up. Learned helplessness sounds like Mary the Artful from an old movie: "What is freedom to us, what is bondage to us — we don't care now."

The theory of learned helplessness is confirmed by life. It is not necessary to sit on a leash and receive electric shocks. Everything may turn out to be more prosaic. When I wrote this article, I asked my Facebook friends to share their experience of experiencing learned helplessness. They told me:

- about unsuccessful attempts to get a job: refusal after refusal without explanation,

- about a husband who could meet in the evening with expensive gifts, and could with aggression for no apparent reason, according to the mood. (Next to it is almost the same story about his wife),

- about the boss, a tyrant who handed out fines every month according to some new and illogical criteria.

From the outside it seems that there is a way out. Rewrite your resume! File for divorce! Lean on the boss! Do this and do that! But like Seligman's dog, a man who is driven into helplessness cannot jump even over a low fence. He doesn't believe in a way out. He's lying on the floor and whining.

Sometimes even an abusive partner or a boss-tyrant is not necessary.

Gelya Demina, a student on an internship in Korea, tells how in one lesson the professor gave the class a task:

«From the letters written on paper, you need to add up the names of countries. When the time runs out, the professor asks those who are confident in their answer to raise their hands. And so again and again. By the last task, half of the students had become discouraged.

After we solved all the points, we started checking the answers," says Gelya. - The right side had almost everything right. And the guys on the left didn't have the right answers at all.

The last task (D E W E N S - Sweden) was solved by only two out of ten people on the left side. And then the professor says: "Here's a confirmation of Seligman's hypothesis." Two versions of the test that we had appear on the screen.

While the right group received a completely normal test, the left group had one letter mixed up in all the tasks. It was impossible to get the right answer in their case! The whole point was in the last question, about Sweden.

It is the same for two teams. Everyone had the opportunity to get the right answer. But over the past five questions, the guys have completely convinced themselves that they will not be able to solve the task. By the time it was the right answer's turn, they just gave up.»

How to resist chaos? What should I do if the learned helplessness is already winning back the inner territory? Is it possible not to give up and not give up apathy?

Yes, you can! And here scientists are at one with life again.

- Remedy No.1: Do something.

Seriously, anything! Psychologist Bruno Bettelheim survived in a concentration camp with a policy of constant chaos. The leadership of the camp, he said, established new prohibitions, often meaningless and contradictory.

The guards put the prisoners in situations where any action could lead to severe punishment. In this mode, people quickly lost their will and broke down.

Bettelheim offered an antidote: to do everything that is not forbidden. Can you go to bed instead of discussing camp rumors? Go to bed! Can you brush your teeth? Clean them!»

Not because you want to sleep or care about hygiene. But because this is how a person returns subjective control over the situation into his own hands.

First, he has a choice: to do this or that.

Secondly, in a situation of choice, he can make a decision and immediately execute it.

What is important is your own, personal decision made on your own. Even a small action becomes a vaccine against turning into a vegetable.

The effectiveness of this method in the 70s was confirmed by Bettelheim's American colleagues. Ellen Langer and Judith Roden conducted an experiment in places where a person is most restricted in freedom: a prison, a nursing home and a homeless shelter.

What did the results show? Prisoners who were allowed to arrange furniture in their cell in their own way and choose TV programs became less susceptible to health problems and outbursts of aggression.

Elderly people who could furnish a room to their liking, get a plant and choose a movie for evening viewing, increased vitality and slowed down the process of memory loss. And homeless people who could choose a bed in a dorm and a lunch menu more often started looking for work — and found it.

The way to cope: do something because you can. Choose what to do with a free hour before going to bed, what to cook for dinner and how to spend the weekend. Rearrange the furniture in the room as you prefer. Find as many control points as possible where you can make your own decision and execute it.

What can it give? Remember about Seligman's dogs? The problem wasn't that they couldn't jump over the barrier. So it is with people: sometimes the problem is not the situation, but the loss of will and faith in the significance of their actions.

The "I do it because I chose to do it" approach allows you to maintain or regain a subjective sense of control. This means that our will does not leave in the direction of the cemetery, covered with a head under a white sheet - but on the contrary, the person continues to move towards a way out of a difficult situation.

- Remedy No.2: Away from helplessness - in small steps.

The ideas about myself "I can't do anything", "I'm worthless", "my attempts won't change anything" are made up of special cases. We, as in the children's game "connect the dots", choose some stories and connect them with one line.

It turns out a belief about yourself. Over time, a person pays more and more attention to the experience that confirms this belief. And stops seeing exceptions.

The good news is that beliefs about yourself can be changed in the same way. This is done, for example, narrative therapy: together with a helping practitioner, a person learns to see alternative stories, which eventually combines into a new representation.

Where there used to be a story about helplessness, you can find another one: a story about your value and importance, about the significance of your actions, about the possibility of influencing what is happening.

It is important to find special cases in the past: when did I succeed? when was I able to influence something? when did you change the situation by your actions?

It is also important to pay attention to the present — here small achievable goals will help. For example, to clean up the kitchen cabinet or make an important call that you have been putting off for a long time.

There are no goals too small — every goal is important! Did you manage? Did you succeed? Excellent! You should celebrate this victory! It is known that where attention is, there is energy. The more attention to achievements, the stronger the fuel for a new preferred story. The higher the probability of not giving up.

A way to cope: set small real goals and be sure to celebrate their achievement. Keep a list and reread it at least twice a month. Over time, you will notice that the goals and achievements have become larger. Find an opportunity to reward yourself with some kind of joy for each completed item.

What can it give? Small achievements help to gain resources for larger-scale actions. Build up self-confidence. String a new experience like beads on a fishing line. Over time, a necklace will turn out of individual parts — a new story about yourself: "I am important", "My actions matter", "I can influence my life".

- Remedy No.3: A different look.

Seligman discovered the problem, and devoted his later life and career to finding a solution. The scientist found out that animals can learn to resist helplessness if they have previous experience of successful actions.

The dogs, who at first could turn off the current by pressing their heads on the panel in the enclosure, continued to look for a way out, even when they were fixed with belts.

In collaboration with renowned psychotherapists, Seligman began to study people's behavior and their reactions to external circumstances.

Twenty years of research led him to the conclusion that the tendency to explain what is happening in one way or another affects whether we are looking for an opportunity to act or give up. People with the belief that "Bad things happen through my fault" are more likely to develop depression and a state of helplessness.

And those who think "Bad things can happen, but it's not always my fault and someday it will stop," cope faster and recover under unfavorable circumstances.

Seligman proposed a scheme for rethinking experience and restructuring perception. It is called the "ABCDE Scheme":

A - Adversity, an unfavorable factor. Remember an unpleasant situation that causes pessimistic thoughts and a feeling of helplessness. It is important to start by choosing situations that you rate no higher than 5 on a scale from 1 to 10: this way the learning experience will be safer.

B - Belief, belief. Write down your interpretation of the event: everything you think about what happened.

C - Consequence, consequences. How did you behave in connection with this event? What did you feel in the process?

D - Disputation, a different view. Write down evidence that questions and refutes your negative beliefs.

E - Energizing, activation. What feelings (and, perhaps, actions) caused new arguments and more optimistic thoughts?

The way to cope: try to refute pessimistic beliefs in writing. Keep a diary to record unpleasant events and work through them according to the ABCDE scheme. Re-read your notes every few days.

What can it give? Stressful situations will always arise. But with time and practice, you can learn to cope with anxiety more effectively, not to give up helplessness and develop your own successful reaction and behavior strategies.

The energy that previously served pessimistic beliefs will be released, and it can be invested in other important areas of life.

P.S. Safety precautions!

I am glad if you are finishing reading this article now, and a desire to act is already being born inside you. Please take care of yourself in further actions. It is important to remember that there is no single solution that will definitely suit each of us.

A person and his life situation are more complicated than the most thoughtful and detailed scheme. Sometimes independent work gives the desired result. And sometimes you need to enlist external support and / or seek help from a specialist.

Please trust your feelings and take care of yourself and your condition.

I believe that in difficult circumstances we can rely on our own strength. Choosing to read this article and try the methods described in it already means that you have faith in change and the possibility of moving to where it is better. The possibility of a good future beyond today's circumstances.

Seligman's dogs had no choice. We have it. Let's choose the will to freedom and jump out of our cage!»

Written by
RusLand profile image
RusLand
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Read more about...
65 Replies
6357axbz profile image
6357axbz

Give me a break. Did you ever hear of summarizing? Why are you posting on an advanced cancer site? You have no profile, no dx mentioned…all your profile says is “Hi! I’m RusLand”

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to 6357axbz

I would like to apologize to you personally for the misunderstanding that has arisen! I am a registered participant, my diagnosis is metastatic, castrate resistant prostate cancer with total skeletal bone lesions since 2016. I have left a lot of comments under the publications of other participants who are already familiar with me. Yes, this is my first publication and I stressed at the very beginning that I leave the right to the moderators to delete this publication if it violates the topics and rules of this community. If I did something wrong, then help me fix it! Thank you!

6357axbz profile image
6357axbz in reply to RusLand

“My profile is open to all users, although according to the rules of the group I could not show my personal data, including the diagnosis”

That is not correct. Participants are encouraged to show dx and all details of their disease. Typically that is done in your profile. That allows the rest of us to see any similarities with our own disease and to off specific recommendations.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to 6357axbz

Thanks! My profile is open to all users from the first day. Perhaps I was unable to fill it out completely because in semi-automatic mode it gives out options from which you can choose answers.. But I did not find an experimental treatment protocol there, according to which I have already received four courses of therapy and received very good results. This is the 177Lu + 225Ac - PSMA-617 protocol. Here is the dynamics of my PSA with the level constantly held at zero T. I specially translated everything into English ..))

Dynamics of PSA and Testosterone
maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to RusLand

Your English is a helluva lot better than my Russian....congrats ! Let's hope our countries can remain at peace!!

in reply to maley2711

We have no choice. Anything else would be insane.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to

Humans are very capable of insane actions.

Bunkerboy profile image
Bunkerboy in reply to maley2711

As we see on a daily basis in the media👨‍🦳

farmanerd profile image
farmanerd in reply to 6357axbz

I see RusLand's post encompassing many of the thoughts expressed by you and others in one of your prior posts, but just in more general terminology:

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

His post contains some aspects of personal kaizen, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for ADD (ADHD - inattentive), and I'm sure others have seen similarities from their own reading or experiences.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to 6357axbz

I understood everything after you corrected your first comment about what you see in my profile.. I so diligently filled out all these pop-ups during registration, where it was asked when I was diagnosed, what types of treatment I underwent and when, etc. I diligently filled out all these forms and tried to answer all these questions as much as possible.. And, oh my God, only now I realized that all this data was collected in the interests of a narrow circle of people, the creators of this resource.. And what all the members of this community see is where I wrote "Hi, my name is Rusland.." Cool!)) Thank you for opening my eyes! I will fix everything in my story soon! 100%

Ramp7 profile image
Ramp7

The approach to situations you describe are fascinating. I've often wondered what drives positive independent outcomes. If dogs were trained as a pack would the results be different?

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to Ramp7

Interesting question! But I think the answer to it is already contained in the publication itself..?! And about the concentration camp, and about the lesson at the university.. When a group of people, not dogs, lost their will, being in a state of chaos in the collective and only a few found a way out of this state of depression! The Russian poet, bard Vladimir Vysotsky has a very good song on this topic, called "There is a hunt for wolves." The song is about when people use red flags to drive a pack of wolves under gunfire.. And the wolves run limply, obeying the instinct of fear of the red color under these shots.. And only one wolf from the whole pack jumps over these red flags and survives.. A very strong song!

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to Ramp7

This song by Vladimir Vysotsky about a pack of wolves will be the answer to your question: youtube.com/watch?v=-O75JLz...

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

RusLand, your detailed article does have relevance to men with PCa. How? When a person is faced with a severe threat...He/she does one of the 3 things. .FIGHT, FLIGHT or FREEZE .

PCa is a serious threat to our existence...some will fight (like LuLu or Magnus) and do everything possible to deter the cancer....Such as eating vegetarian foods, avoiding Animal fats, use anti cancer herbs and spices, Walk or run 4 to 5miles a day. And get knowledge of all available medical treatments and choose and make informed decisions.

Then there are men who will go in a state of denial.. FLIGHT... not acknowledging the threat,

not following treatments , wishfully thinking it will just disappear.

Last group is men who will go into FREEZE mode...Knowing that the threat is really serious but go in a mode of inactivity.. such as not reading this forum, Not going to follow ups, Not taking meds ,No interest in anything, depressed and hopeless state (like giving up),Lie in bed all day and waiting for the "D" day.

I hope most of us liberate ourselves from FLIGHT or FREEZE mode and go into FIGHT mode..actively facing this threat with our greatest weapon..i.e. Right kind of knowledge.

Knowledge is anti dote of Fear....Yours truly..LearnAll.

westof profile image
westof

Hmm...What rules?? If there are rules, I've probably broken every single one!😇

Now, if I've read your post correctly, my take is as follows:

1) Take personal responsibility and have the courage to make the hard decisions.

Good or bad, be prepared to live (and learn) with the consequences.

2) Live a good, decent life and try to look after those less fortunate.

3) Don't be self conscious. As long as you adhere to 1&2, don't give a damn whatever certain naysayers falsely proclaim.

Best

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to westof

Super! Of course, we all knew it somewhere and we know it, but we have forgotten a little.. Personally, after reading this publication yesterday, I received the same electric shock ..)) Yes, we all sometimes need a shake-up in order to remember that we are still alive and that those who are dear to our hearts really need us. And the most important thing is that we are still able to convey this insight to others and lend a helping hand to those who follow us! And it is for this reason that I decided to publish the thoughts of this Elizabeth Musatova here in a group of people who really need such an understanding!

Nice post. Something to contemplate.Ignore the harsh comments.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to

Thanks, I definitely won't!))

in reply to RusLand

You need to add your diagnosis and treatments that you've completed in your profile...especially if you plan are contributing. Otherwise, you'll get the harsh responses. Another suggestion..keep the alternative therapies and suggestions to a minimum. There are plenty of those contributors. Don't be fooled by my joined date...I've been a member of this site for 3 years. I left the site but have since rejoined with the intent of not engaging with certain members on this site.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to

Yes, of course I will definitely add my story to my profile! But I have a question for you.. Do you consider experimental and not yet approved by the FDA radioisotope treatment protocols such as 177Lu-PSMA as alternative? The fact is that it is my treatment with radioisotopes of Lutetium and Actinium that I consider to be the most successful of all those standard protocols that I received in the fight against my metastatic prostate cancer with total lesions in the bones of the skeleton.. Here is a picture of this dynamic:

Dynamics of treatment according to the Lu+Ac-PSMA protocol
in reply to RusLand

No, I do not consider 177Lu-PSMA experimental. However, these treatments appear to great for some, mediocre for some and an abject failure for others. But they are no longer experimental IMHO.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to

Are you saying that in the USA your regulator has already approved the protocol 177Lu + 225Ac - PSMA-617 for the treatment of patients with prostate cancer? Or are only clinical trials conducted in separate centers of excellence? If research is conducted, then this method is considered experimental! Am I wrong?

in reply to RusLand

Initially 177Lu-PSMA was experimental,IMO. However, after many years of people being treated, clinical trials emerged to verify the efficacy of these treatments. Clinical trials confirm the effectiveness against a set of goals....PSA50, PFS, etc. Also, it is important that new treatments be shown to be more effective than existing treatments for the same disease stage.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to

OK, thanks for your opinion!

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach in reply to RusLand

You are correct in that also, RusLand. We are still awaiting FDA approval for just Lu177 PSMA treatments for mCRPC, much less Ac225. No insurance reimbursement for experimental clinical trial treatments in most cases. Many here, who are fortunate to have the means, travel to Europe, India or Australia to receive radioligand treatment that they pay for out of their own “pocket”. This is out of reach for very many: another source of feeling helpless.Thank you for posting this most valuable and insightful summary on Learned Helplessness. Please keep posting.

Congratulations on your most excellent results from combined Lu + Ac treatments. Is this available in Russia? Paul

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to MateoBeach

Hello, Paul! If this somehow relieves your condition, then in Russia, as in the United States, Lu-PSMA therapy and Ac-PSMA separately are at the stage of clinical trials and have not yet been approved for widespread use! I found the most optimal medical nuclear center of excellence in terms of price-quality ratio on the European continent and was treated there for my money.. The most annoying thing is that Russia, as well as the United States, are almost the only and main producers of Lutetium and Actinium isotopes in the world.. And unlike the USA, Russia sells it in an uncleaned form to Germany and France, and those, in turn, having purified it to medical quality, are already selling it to the whole world.. A paradox! But when I received my treatment in Azerbaijan, it was the American isotope of Actinium that I received.. Where is the USA and where is Azerbaijan..?!))) The photo shows my first portion of Ac 225, which I received in Baku:

Isotope 225Ac in a lead container
LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to RusLand

Dozens of hospitals in India particularly in New Delhi and Mumbai.. get their Lu177 from Germany.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to LearnAll

Yes, the Germans are great! Not having their own radioactive raw materials, they learned how to purify Russian isotopes and sell them all over the world. Isotope 177Lu center from Baku also buys only from the Germans, the distance is closer, and transportation costs are lower.. My second serving of 225Ac was from Germany:

Isotope 225Ac produced by ITM, Germany
GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to RusLand

How is it working for you? How are the side effects?

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to GeorgeGlass

Hi! If you have a little patience, then I will honestly answer, among other things, these questions of yours in my own publication on the topic of treatment with the help of the PSMA-617 ligand! I need quite a bit of time in order to formulate my thoughts very subtly and also shift them for the understanding of the English-speaking reader.. As it turned out, it's not that easy! Some participants openly express their irritation to me because of my success against the background of their unsuccessful experience..?! I don't quite understand this, but I will continue to tell for all those who follow me about the mistakes that should be avoided when treating with PSMA-617! May God bless us all!

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to RusLand

Ok Rus. I’m patient. I’d be interested to hear your experience. Sometimes things worth, sometimes they don’t. It’s good to hear all experiences.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass

Good article. It does apply to people fighting cancer. Attitude and action is important.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to GeorgeGlass

Thank you, I agree with you completely! 100%

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

I am walking on treadmill, reading these posts and keeping an eye on my Veg Curry which is cooking..and answering phones in between....Real Multi tasking..Correct ?

nonm profile image
nonm in reply to LearnAll

busy busy👍

Appreciate your post. Sometimes, it helps to be reminded that attitude plays a big part in all this. It’s not an easy journey, God knows. And it is easy to become discouraged. Especially after years of such a tough battle. Thank you.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to

We're in the same trench together, we still have bullets and our favorite songs, and that's something..))

A poem from the Second World War :

"When they go to their deaths, they sing,

And before that,

you can cry.

After all, the most terrifying hour in battle is

the hour of waiting for an attack."

Walkingwell profile image
Walkingwell

I'm glad you posted. For me, there's a lot of relevance, especially the part about feeling lack of control, the despair that can cause, and the small steps we can take to regain control.

Personally, I don't agree with the Fight/Flight/Freeze metaphor. Although it is bloody freezing here in Tokyo at the moment.

Cancer is part of me, and I'm not fighting myself. I prefer a surfing metaphor: I'm riding a big dangerous wave. Concentrating on staying up, moving ahead, riding the wave.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to Walkingwell

But after all, the main concept of surfing involves a battle with a dangerous wave in order not to fall, using your knowledge and skills, and move further forward! Isn't it?))

Walkingwell profile image
Walkingwell in reply to RusLand

Oh, yes! 'move further forward!' Exactly. Using my knowledge and skills. And I hope you are surfing well, too. It's fun sometimes.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to Walkingwell

My love since childhood is the sky! Therefore, my current hobby is to catch air currents on my paraglider! And I don't have a warm ocean nearby, only the Arctic Ocean..))

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach in reply to RusLand

Wonderful, parapente. Must find just the right window of conditions but then it is magical. For me, this is all a dance with nature more than a battle. Who can beat nature in the end? So for now I dance in that wonder. I Prefer kite surfing- riding the wind and ocean waves at once (But not the big waves anymore); and skiing and snowboarding on newly fallen powder snow. Those activities, as well as just taking a walk in nature every day, are so empowering and nourishing to the soul.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to MateoBeach

Super!))

nonm profile image
nonm in reply to Walkingwell

Like your surfing metaphor, kind of feeling special and proud of the rides we are on, can't get off, must go on. RusLand's post is a GOOD ONE

Walkingwell profile image
Walkingwell in reply to nonm

Thanks. I like that part: 'feeling special and proud'. The nearest I get to actual surfing is body surfing in the shallows, but it's fun. Need to keep these things in mind today when hospital results weren't great. Best wishes to you.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone

A good post and poignant reminder that even when we know what's happening, sometimes we don't have the control we believe we do. The brain, like our bodies are very complicated and despite all the advances we think we have achieved, there's still plenty we don't understand!

Now, it's interesting to observe the experience with dogs, yet our brains are different. Much to the same when experimental evidence is achieve in labs using animals, it doesn't always translate to the human body... I always feel the same in all experiments. Problem is, it wouldn't be considered ok to try the very same experiments on humans, lol...

But it's an interesting inward look to help explain why some patients could fall into those dark corners they do and be overwhelmed with a feeling of helplessness. Not all patients of course, but for those that do experience it. Because the dog cannot relate their personal ability to accept pain, or pain tolerance. Which is something that has different levels of acceptance for each individual.

Even think about conditioning and how those dogs may have been tortured to the point where there pain threshold became higher and higher, and as a result of the conditioning to pain, the brain would respond by not requiring any action? And how the unexposed dog had a low threshold and therefore exited as quickly as possible?

So it's not always what it appears to be, when multiple plausible explanations can exist for a given response!... Which one the is correct? The brains acceptance of a situation due to the overwhelming feeling of hopelessness, or the conditioning to pain that doesn't hurt any longer because the threshold of pain has been raised? Hmmmmmm...

I'm sure both can be proven, but it is very often, experiments are performed to reach a preconceived conclusion, but not necessarily expose all conclusions that are possible!

Interesting post nonetheless, and thank you for posting.

Best Regards

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to Cooolone

I absolutely agree with you that the human brain, just like the body, needs constant training! But if we read the same article, then in my subjective opinion, only 20% of the volume in this article is devoted to dogs and Seligman experiments, and 80% is to people who have fallen into extreme circumstances for themselves! An interesting moment! I have my own observations and statistics on patients whom I help to apply for radioisotope treatment in Baku.. So, 1. I do not know how things are in the United States, but in Russia, 80% of women are sitting in chat rooms and groups about prostate cancer, and the same 80% of men come for treatment accompanied by their women! It was confirmed on a sample of 30 patients whom I helped, 20% of men who come on their own have better treatment results! And it does not depend on the prevalence of the malignant process, the status of FDG, etc. Just better and that's it! 2. Those men who are funny and joke a lot have better treatment results than those who doubt everything and are dissatisfied with everything.. And this is also a fact! That's how it is about different people!))

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply to RusLand

Hahaha, yes, definitely!!! The human condition, and our psyche, let alone once stimulated by a condition that impacts our survival! Fight or Flight reflexes kick in for sure, regardless of who we are. And many of a submissive personality already have their path set...

Interesting, no... excellent food for the mind!

👍

Ramp7 profile image
Ramp7

Great discussion, that is why I visit.

longleaf profile image
longleaf

This was an interesting post.

NickJoy profile image
NickJoy

Yes - definitely food for thought. Thank you.

Dog_man profile image
Dog_man

RusLand -Thanks for being on this site and for posting. Interesting thought provoking post (and it does apply to me as a prostate cancer survivor).

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy

WOW Rusland, what an impressive post! I assume after reading your profile that you were born and educated in Russia. If so, your articulacy and command of the English language are remarkably admirable! I taught in an upper class HS in Illinois for seven years and can totally appreciate the quality of the educational institutions that you obviously were enriched in.

I also want to thank you for spending the time to translate this Russian "publication" which I found to be most inspiring!

My best to a 'fellow comrade' in this battle that we all are facing,

Ron

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to E2-Guy

Thanks, Ron! To get such a high rating from a high school teacher is very expensive! I even felt like a student again for a second ..)) I am glad that you liked this publication - so my efforts and time spent on translating this article were not in vain! If at least one person, after reading these thoughts, stops and honestly looks inside himself - this is already a victory! May God keep us all on this path!

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to RusLand

Thank you RusLand! You deserve to be getting accolades from college professors, not just from an old HS teacher. If any of our comrades did not totally appreciate your post, they probably didn't read it in its entirety. Your post certainly was "not in vain"!

I will be following your future posts, and if you ever venture down to this part of the world, please look me up. It would be an honor to 'hang out with' such a highly educated gentleman. We have may Russian folks living here in Thailand, so it's probably time for me to learn a few Russian words. My Thai GF actually took a class in Russian and speaks/spoke a little bit of your language.

Cheers,

Ron

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to E2-Guy

"A person cannot truly improve if he does not help others to improve." "In this world, everyone who lightens the burden of another person benefits."

"We are given life with the indispensable condition of bravely defending it until the last minute."

Charles John Huffham Dickens.

Today would have been exactly 210 years old for this great Gentleman writer with a capital letter!

Thank you for the invitation, Ron, I have already flagged Thailand on my map..)) The ways of the Lord are inscrutable!

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to RusLand

More 'words of wisdom' from my new friend on this forum! Looking forward to meeting you soon.

anonymoose2 profile image
anonymoose2

My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.I appreciate any thought process that anyone has to offer.

All my life from birth to present I’ve been told by authority to sit down hold on and shut up. And this has been my experience with my doctors.

I appreciate everyone’s post.

Hailwood profile image
Hailwood

There's 5 minutes I'll never get back

Nous profile image
Nous

thanks for sharing RusLand ... terrific article :)

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

"Those men who are funny and joke a lot have better treatment results than those who doubt everything and are dissatisfied with everything."

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 02/07/2022 10:53 PM EST

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to j-o-h-n

Right On.. John the Great ! A bellyful laughter can stimulate natural killer cells and Macrophages...making immune system more effective...No Randomized ,Controlled trials yet. I plan to do some trials in my next life ...on "loud laughters and enhancement of Immunity" Just wait.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to j-o-h-n

test test test

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 02/16/2022 10:09 AM EST

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to j-o-h-n

test again test again test again

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 02/21/2022 8:21 PM EST

I thought it was very helpful and not just to prostate cancer but also to the myriad of problems that present themselves during prostate cancer; relationships; work; etc

You may also like...

Research in the future

rch-whats-exciting-the-experts#1 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/cancer-research-whats-exc

Scared for the future

go to a chemotherapy person (I don’t know why) and we are a bit confused on what to do. I don’t...

LOVE > fear

both of our life’s 3-24-2015 … I was 53 she 50.. what a strange trip it’s been . I was a rable...

Future more immediate

when a new powerful drug falls. Do you have any clue what is it about? And for when is it planned?

Cyberknife is in my future