Gleason 9 - spread to lymph nodes, up... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Gleason 9 - spread to lymph nodes, update on treatment plan.

mysticmini profile image
31 Replies

I read a lot on here about other experiences, so wanted to post on update on my situation. Gleason 9, low PSA, already had TURP, spread to local lymph nodes in left side of pelvis. After many opinions, have decided on a treatment plan and will be treated by a team at Memorial Sloan Kettering. The plan is not SOC. I will start on Firmagon + Zytiga for 6 months. After 6 months I will have surgery to remove the prostate and lymph nodes. Hormone therapy will stop, and I will have another PSMA scan. Results of that scan will determine if radiation is required (after I fully heal from surgery). I was told Brachytherapy was not an option due to previous TURP. I have my first Firmagon injection tomorrow - any tips to prepare? My goal over the next 6 months is to try and exercise as much as possible, eat a healthy diet and Kegel, Kegel, Kegel!

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31 Replies
Javelin18 profile image
Javelin18

It sounds like you have a great team and plan. It sounds like you have learned a great deal in a short time. Best luck

GP24 profile image
GP24

The first firmagon injection are two injections! Make sure you get two.

A PSMA scan is very sensitive, the usal CT/bone scan would have been negative probably. They will usually not be able to remove all affected lymph nodes during surgery. So after the six months of ADT you will probably get salvage radiation.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply toGP24

I believe I read it is very sensitive for metastatic sites larger than 4-5 mm..still a limitation?

GP24 profile image
GP24 in reply tomaley2711

Yes, a PSMA scan will detect mets from about 4 mm and larger. What I wanted to say is that if he had a CT/bone scan the result would be "clear". Nothing detected. However if he does a PSMA scan at the same time you will often detect lymph node mets. But the patient is not in a worse oncological situation just because he got a more sensitive imaging than CT/bone scan.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply toGP24

Since my question, read that some other type of scans are not sensitive for anyhting less than 8 mm...which is approx 1/3rd inch. The high NPV, PPV, and specificity of PSMA PET are the biggest selling points, per the Pylarify web site.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

I like your plans, except why stop zytiga and firmagon after six months? You are only giving new cancer cell lines a chance to find a work around to those drugs.

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply toMagnus1964

In order to get as clear as possible picture from PSMA scan that isn't impacted by hormone therapy. I have a cancer that is low PSA producing, so monitoring PSA isn't a good measure.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply tomysticmini

Got ya.

tango65 profile image
tango65

Did you i have a PSMA PET./CT already?

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply totango65

yes

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply tomysticmini

Have had PSMA, CT, Bone and MRI - plus a regular PET scan. Have had every possible imaging technique possible at this point.

tango65 profile image
tango65 in reply tomysticmini

Glad to know you have been very well studied. Excellent.

tango65 profile image
tango65

What is the logic to do surgery and then plan for possible radiation therapy/ Why is that better than radiation to the prostate and SBRT boosters to the know tumors in the prostate plus whole pelvis radiation with boosters to the positive lymph nodes plus 2 years of ADT and zytiga which has show to reduce BCR ?

I ask because you are been treated by leading experts in PC and I just want to know where my understanding of these situations went wrong.

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply totango65

I was heavily against surgery, and really didn't want to do it because of side effects. However, given my age (54) doctors want to treat as aggressively as possible. And surgery after radiation isn't really an option.

tango65 profile image
tango65 in reply tomysticmini

Thanks.

GP24 profile image
GP24 in reply tomysticmini

In this study they found better results for surgery than for radiation for high-risk patients.

auajournals.org/doi/10.1097...

Survivor1965 profile image
Survivor1965

I was in your exact situation at 46 yrs old. Gleason 9. Wondering why they don’t have you doing chemo?

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini

I believe because Zytiga is thought to be as effective, but less toxic and more tolerable.

Survivor1965 profile image
Survivor1965 in reply tomysticmini

But I thought hormones mask where as chemo kills?

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply toSurvivor1965

I think hormones starve, and shrink...and then surgery to remove

JRPnSD profile image
JRPnSD

Firmagon is an Antagonist type drug for ADT, but the injections I found very painful for several days and it created a kind of a mini potbelly for me. Has your doctor looked at the other Antagonist drug? Relugolix is a pill form of an Antagonist drug, so works the same way. It was a major game-changer for me to be able to switch to a pill.

julyturqsee profile image
julyturqsee

Who is your oncologist @ MSK?

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply tojulyturqsee

Dr. Karen Autio

jfoesq profile image
jfoesq

FYIIn 2012, I was dx with PC with a few tumors (4-5) and a Gkeason 9. I was otherwise in good health. My MO at the time, Dr. Scher, from MSKCC in NYC was a world renowned leader in the field. Because of my young(ish) age and fitness he offered/suggested that I be his 13th patient to undergo prostate removal surgery. I went forward with it even though he fully explained to me that surgery when the cancer had spread is novel and unproven. In addition, the 2 other experts in NYC who I consulted with basically felt surgery was inappropriate. I had it done. I went n 3 "vacations" during the first 5 years and I am still responding to Lupron and Zytiga (although my PSA is now measurable and has risen very slightly over the ast 2 readings).

I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THE SURGERY BENEFITTED ME OR THE OTHER 12 PATIENTS WHO HAD IT BEFORE ME. They also removed about 34 lymph nodes from my stomach area, one of which tested positive.

I don't BELIEVE there is any evidence demonstrating that surgery for metPC is helpful.

But- MAYBE there isn't sufficient info to make a valid determination, yet.

Maybe you will help add to the data.

My prostate surgery was performed by Dr. Scardino, who was a leader in nerve-sparing surgery. Another surgeon performed the lymph node removal from the stomach area. Dr. Scardino was NOT schooled in robotic surgery, so he did it "open"- the old school way. I don't recall the pain following surgery but I do recall basically sitting on my couch or recliner for 2 weeks.

Side Effects: I did need to wear a diaper for a few days, maybe 2 weeks (hard to recall). I think I had a catheter for a week or 2. I think I was on painkillers for a week or so.

I can still get an erection, although Lupron has shrunk my pens and killed my sex-drive. And- Fortunately, I don't leak urine, except for maybe a teaspoon amount on RARE occasions when I have a Big belly laugh, a BIG cough or I am "pushing" out a fart.

Despite still not knowing if the surgery helped fight the cancer, I am still happy I had it done because I wanted to do everything I possibly could to be live life, spend time with my wife and most importantly, to see my 3 boys grow up. Again- I have NO IDEA if I benefitted from the surgery but- WHO KNOWS- maybe I did.

Your MSKCC so you are probably in great hands.

The one piece of advice I would offer is to make sure your surgeon (robotic or not) has LOTS of experience with sparing the nerves that help you urinate and get an erection.

I wish you the best!!!

Survivor1965 profile image
Survivor1965 in reply tojfoesq

You and I have exact same history except that my seminal v's were invaded as well as nerve bundles. They removed, as I remember, 30 lymphs, with one infected. I had to get an implant.

jfoesq profile image
jfoesq in reply toSurvivor1965

Survivor1965- I just read your bio and see the many similarities you referred to.Best of luck to both of us that we continue responding wellto treatment.

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply tojfoesq

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. Its helps reaffirm the treatment choice.

jfoesq profile image
jfoesq in reply tomysticmini

I hope I didn't come off suggesting that you do, or don't, have the surgery. I was only trying to provide you with information that would assist you in making a well-informed and intelligent choice.

mysticmini profile image
mysticmini in reply tojfoesq

No, not at all. Sharing your experience is very helpful - thank you!

pirate21 profile image
pirate21

I had very similar path report, except for lymph nodes, but a different age category. I am 73. I elected surgery. Pre surgery psa was 8.6. post surgery it was undetectable. I opted for RP and adjuvant radiation. During RP only one lymph node was sampled and it was negative. Here is the link to a summary article referencing a research paper that convinced me to do adjuvant radiation. My radiation included 40 sessions. 28 with lymph nodes and pelvis and 12 with pelvis only. Last radiation is this week. Also did Casodex and Lupron for 6 months. ascopost.com/news/june-2021...

After the scans, is the plan to do more ADT? I don't believe 6 months of ADT + zytiga is enough treatment for very high risk prostate cancer.

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