End of chemo and CT scan result.

[Ashikpong]

Hi guys, I completed my Docetaxel(6×) chemo last month, and thereafter did a CT scan. My bone mets are inactive and no new ones were found . I have osteoplastic formations on there where Ga 68 psma- pet / ct scan suspected mets in May 2021 with no signs of danger of fracture. PN0, psa has been stable at 0.19 since July . My prostate is back to normal size , no pains , just feeling great. However , my question is: what should be the next line of treatment? Currently still on 3 monthly Lupron. My Onco, suggested a" wait and see " measure which I'm not comfortable with.

[Javelin18]

This is a question I’ve been pondering, when I finally get to a low PSA number,,how would I prevent a future rise. I haven’t seen any research on this.

My hypothesis is that dormant cells that don’t yet have a blood supply, eventually develop a blood supply. If this is true, then the trick is to stop them from developing a blood supply. It looks like cancer cells have 6 different ways of accessing a blood supply, so it may take a broad group of treatments to stop it.

I started taking quercitin supplement, since it has been shown in vitro to inhibit Vascular Epithelial Growth Factor (VEGF) in vitro.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/256...

It is also has other cancer inhibiting effects.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I think it would be difficult to prove the efficacy, since the research would need to show the cause of something that didn’t happen. Probably the way to demonstrate a benefit would be from long term tracking of patients that did or didn’t take the supplement.

[rmarkley in reply to Javelin18]

what is your quercetin dosage, and where do you get the pills?

[Javelin18 in reply to rmarkley]

I ordered the Natural Factors LipoMicel Matrix Quercitin 250mg. I take one tablet with breakfast. I was told that dosage is 1/10 the dosage that showed toxicity in mice, but I haven’t confirmed it myself.

[Tall_Allen]

Nothing until there is some movement. All of the medicines do not attack quiescent cells, so taking any now would only create toxicity for you but would be of no oncological benefit.

[Ashikpong in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks Tall

[Woodstock82]

After finishing six infusions of docetaxel, my PSA was tested regularly My PSA nadir of 1.5 came about three months later, then started slowly rising. After seven more months it had doubled to 3. I added daily abiraterone (+prednisone) to the ongoing Lupron regime, and had six infusions of cabazitaxel. I've had very good results from that. PSA is currently 0.01. The plan is that when my PSA rises significantly again, the next treatment will be enzalutamide. If 177Lu-PSMA becomes available to me before then, I'd like to give that a try first. We'll see.

[Ashikpong in reply to Woodstock82]

Thanks Woodstock 82. Do you still have your "mothership" ?

[Woodstock82 in reply to Ashikpong]

Yes. I was already stage IV with distant bone mets and distant lymph node mets at my initial diagnosis, so surgery was not an option and radiation was not an option. I went straight to ADT and chemo.

[Ashikpong in reply to Woodstock82]

I'm in same situation only without lymph nodes. Thanks for your response. Stay fit 💪

[nonm in reply to Woodstock82]

since your current PSA is 0.01 even with the MOTHERSHIP untouched, will it make sense to have IT debulked via radiation? SBRT for instance? like to know what do you and others think...

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Woodstock82]

I went into your bio and looking at your replies got my question pretty much answered.Your Jevtana chemo was in a Charter trial.

Do you have the full name of the trial ?

Most guys myself included just get on the Zytiga alone when progression occurs down the road after Docetaxel. And of course now with Peace trial MO's are encouraged to begin Zytiga right away with Docetaxel.

I'm almost jealous lol. I wouldn't mind continuing a "hard hit" with Jevtana while my C is simmering at a low level.

[Woodstock82 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

CHAARTED2 clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

I consider myself very lucky to have been selected for the cabazitaxel arm of the trial, and I got very good results in terms of suppressing the cancer and reducing PSA. But I had much worse side effects from the chemo than I expected.

I was told that the side effects of cabazitaxel are generally milder than those from docetaxel, but that turned out not to be true in my case.

Nausea was much worse throughout the course.

In the month after the last infusion:

1) I had blood in my urine for four weeks.

2) I had severe diarrhea for two weeks. Unpleasant and debilitating.

3) I had severe disruption of my taste perception. For a week, even plain water tasted bad. I survived on chicken broth, Gatorade, and water but had to use a fat straw so that I didn't have to taste any of it for long. Nine months later, my sense of taste has still only partially recovered. Many things still taste bad, or at least "off."

I'm glad to have done it. I don't want to do it again.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Woodstock82]

Thank you much.Really sorry to hear of your SE's.

What you experienced is rare indeed with Cabitaxal.

We often speak of lucky or not lucky. I think of that as if there was a cure the knowledge would be so vast we wouldn't be using the lucky word as often.

Thanks again for your response.

Keep up the good results!

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

cabazitaxel

[Hidden]

As you know Stage4 prostate cancer is not curable, so over medicating could cause more side effects and sickness. I choose the quality of life over quantity as I know I am not fixable. A wait and see is normal to see how, where and why the cancer may fire up again. So take it day by day and enjoy your family while you still can. PS. They really dont know, everyone is different and medications have different side effects for everyone. Be patient and thankful for no pain.

[MateoBeach]

This is close to a topic I plan to post on soon: the treatments that attack the cancer itself vs therapeutics and other factors that help slow the progression of cancer from evolving towards a more advanced state. These are called the development of the 10+ “Hallmarks of Cancer”. See my prior post on this topic. These are all driven by two factors: accumulated genetic damage and genome instability, and inflammation. This is where Quercetin, Curcumin and anti-inflammatories, among others, can have impacts, these may include senolytics and epigenetic factors including lifestyle and dietary approaches: especially in earlier stages of PC such as non-metastatic and hormone sensitive. These are not often tested in RCTs, and especially not in combinations that many of us use.

[Javelin18 in reply to MateoBeach]

I’m looking forward to you starting that discussion. I’ve been thinking of doing the same, but realize the discussion could quickly spiral out of control. I think it’s important to view all the pieces within a framework, but to it might be good to start with a broad overview, then break into subtopics.

[j-o-h-n]

Break a take...........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 11/27/2021 9:37 PM EST

[Shooter1]

Life Is Good, enjoy it while you can and go do what you always wanted to do but haven't yet for some reason....