Estrogen patch for reducing hot flashes? Anything else?

[efsculpt]

Has anyone here used a estrogen patch to reduce hot flashes?

Thanks,

Craig

[tango65]

They may work. Here is some info:

researchgate.net/publicatio...

[Pleroma]

The patch reduced the frequency of my hot flashes by about 75%.

So not 100% effective, but good enough. I thought it wise to take a daily 'baby' aspirin to help keep those blood clots at bay. You will likely get Gynecomastia if you do not have it already from ADT.

[EdBar]

Been using estradiol patches for nearly 8 years now per Snuffy Myers, they work great and have the additional benefit of helping with bone health. Patches don’t have the cardiovascular risk that pills do, they are absorbed through the skin and not the liver.

Ed

[DenDoc]

yes, I have been on them for about 8 years. They definitely reduce the hot flashes but never eliminate them totally. I sleep with a ceiling fan often on. Days are no problem. The gynecomastia is tolerable. I swim with a swim shirt on but so do many men my age for sun protection. My shirts are generally loose fitting, not tailored so no problem. It is a small problem when taken in the perspective of my MCRPC.

[stevehmichaels]

Hello Craig....

I don't have a any direct experience with the estradiol patch. I have read that some people get relief from it. I would like to suggest something more benign than estradiol and that would be phytoestrogens which are similar but much more benign.

Women with the absolute worst hot flashes get relief with something called pueraria mirifica. The most potent one is the farmed cultivar. Considering your testosterone is very low now you may get some relief.....also I understand weight lifting is helpful.

puerariamirificabuteasuperb...

The good news $20.00 latter you will have an answer.

[Wassersug in reply to stevehmichaels]

Dear Stevehmichaels,

Hot flashes in both men and women are due to loss of estradiol. Thus using a bit of add-back estradiol to avoid hot flashes is as natural and "benign" as possible. Admittedly though, it is an off label use and one needs to be careful of they have an estrogen sensitive cancer.

Phytoestrogens, in contrast , are rarely sold as pure compounds. Instead they are a collection of compounds and typically not a single chemical. Plants can't run away from their enemies, so the use toxins instead for their defences. As such, they are not necessarily benign. I personally recommend avoiding the unnatural (and potentially toxic), for the natural compound.

Richard W.

[stevehmichaels in reply to Wassersug]

Dear Richard

I adamantly disagree with this notion. Estradiol turns on the cancer in the 1st place, the reduced estradiol/ testosterone ratio. Pueraria Mirifca has been used for centuries safely. Conjugated estradiol is derived from pregnant horse's urine Most of the women don't want to use estradiol for fear of hormonally related cancers like breast and ovarian cancers. Doctors don't want to prescribe it for most women. Most sophisticated women have gone to phytoestrogens because it does bot cause cancer,estradiol does.

Estradiol is a steroidal molecule with a much more complex interaction with the cell. It penetrates the cell membrane, the nucleolus and likes up with specific genes on the chromosomes. Phytoestrogens lock into the receptor site on the cell membrane and do not penetrate the cell.

best

steve

[Wassersug in reply to stevehmichaels]

Dear stevehmichaels,

I appreciate your enthusiasm and respect it. However there are many claims made in your email which are not, at least to the best of my knowledge supported by either the oncological medical literature.

As such, could you please send me citations from the peer-reviewed medical literature to support your claims? I know that is a lot to ask for, so perhaps you could start with the first one in the first line. That is where you say that "Estradiol turns on the cancer in the 1st place..."

We are talking about prostate cancer here. Yes, there are esstrogen sensitive versions of prostate cancer. But they are rare and what evidence do you have that any phytoestrogens that are potent enough to significantly reduce hot flashes, don't also promote those versions of prostate cancer?

If you want to discuss this topic one on one, we can of course find a time for voice contact.

Richard W.

[stevehmichaels in reply to Wassersug]

Hello Richard

This school of thought has been around for more than 30 years! It is accepted that estradiol being an endogenous hormone causes cancers in women. Its all about ratios. When a women has low androgens, low progesterone they are on tract for breast cancer. Part of the therapy for many breast cancers is introducing androgens. Many doctors are advising natural progesterone cream for breast cancer.

Older men get prostate cancer not many young men. Older men have higher circulating estradiol than young men and at 60 their progesterone goes low. I have known men that stopped LUPRON because 8 to 10 mg of natural progesterone kept them in remission.

Richard I gave a direction...there is plenty of science out there I've read and studied over the years. You want to expand your horizon....you have internet. My friends in drug developement are well aware of these notions.

I wish you well!!!

Steve

[Wassersug in reply to stevehmichaels]

Dear Steve,

Thank you for the good wishes. I have though inserted some replies in caps below.

This school of thought has been around for more than 30 years!

IDEAS DO NOT BECOME LEGITIMATE BECAUSE OF THE LENGTH OF TIME THEY ARE AROUND. I ASKED FOR PEER-REVIEWED REFERENCE AND INSTEAD YOU THROW UP A DISTRACTOR.

It is accepted that estradiol being an endogenous hormone causes cancers in women.

NOTE: THIS IS A PROSTATE CANCER LIST, NOT A BREAST CANCER LIST.

Its all about ratios.

IN WHAT WAY? IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE T:E2 WHAT IS THE CELLULAR MECHANISM BY WHICH CELLS IN THE BODY CAN READ RATIOS?

When a women has low androgens, low progesterone they are on tract for breast cancer. Part of the therapy for many breast cancers is introducing androgens.

REFERENCES PLEASE.

Many doctors are advising natural progesterone cream for breast cancer.

SO YOU SUPPORT THE HIGH DOSE OF A NATURAL HORMONE (I.E., PROGESTERONE ) BUT ARE OPPOSED TO THE USE OF A HIGH DOSE OF A NATURAL HORMONE (I.E., ESTROGEN) TO RELIEVE THE SIDE EFFECTS OF ADT? HOW DO YOU MAKE THESE DECISIONS?

Older men get prostate cancer not many young men. Older men have higher circulating estradiol than young men and at 60 their progesterone goes low.

AS HUMANS AGE THEIR GONADAL HORMONES DECLINE. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT HERE.

I have known men that stopped LUPRON because 8 to 10 mg of natural progesterone kept them in remission.

THE PATCH STUDY IN THE UK IS LOOKING AT JUST THAT FOR ANOTHER FEMALE HORMONE. FINAL RESULTS RE NOT IN, BUT THEY SEEM TO SHOW THAT A HIGH DOSE OF A FEMALE GONADAL HORMONE CAN NOT ONLY RELIEVE HOT FLASHES, BUT CONTROL PSA AS WELL AS LUPRON.

Richard I gave a direction...there is plenty of science out there I've read and studied over the years.

SO HAVE I, WHICH IS WHY I AM ASKING YOU FOR REFERENCES TO SUPPORT WHAT YOU SAY. IF YOU HAVE DONE ALL THAT READING AND STUDYING OVER THE YEARS, WHY CAN'T YOU REFER ME TO ANY PEER-REVIEWED MEDICAL PAPERS TO SUPPORT WHAT YOU SAY?

You want to expand your horizon....you have internet.

I USE PUBMED DAILY TO GET INTO THE MEDICAL LITERATURE. I ALSO LIKE WHAT IS SAID ABOUT ESTRADIOL AND PROSTATE CANCER IN THE NEW EDITION OF THE ADT BOOK THAT JUST CAME OUT IN EUROPE. THE ADT BOOK IS ENDORSED IN CANADA, BY THE CANADIAN UROLOGICAL ASSOCIATION AND THE EUROPEAN EDITION IS ENDORSED BY THE EUROPEAN ASSOCIATION OF UROLOGY. WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT I SHOULDN'T TRUST THOSE PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS WHO ENDORSED THE BOOK ?

My friends in drug developement are well aware of these notions.

BEING "AWARE OF NOTIONS" IS NOT THE SAME AS EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THEM.

I wish you well!!!

THANKS.

AGAIN, INSTEAD OF TELLING ME TO USE THE INTERNET, WHILE DON'T YOU EITHER SEND ME ACTUAL MEDICAL REFERENCES OR AGREE TO TALK WITH ME ONE ON ONE, SOI I CAN BETTER UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.

I AM SORRY ABOUT USING ALL CAPS HERE, AND I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE YELLING (AND I DON'T LIKE DOING THAT), BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO USE ITALICS OR DIFFERENT FONTS HERE.

Steve

[stevehmichaels in reply to Wassersug]

Friend I am not paid to be your tutor....YOU CAN GO TO PUBMED, AND THE REST OF THE ACADEMIC LIBRARIES. I'M 100 MILES AHEAD OF YOU I've been doing it for years. A close relative of mine stopped his LUPRON, and went to topical progesterone and went into remission 7 years until he passed away at 93! The information is out there if you don't want to pursue it that's up to you!!!

[Jpl506 in reply to stevehmichaels]

You do know that Dr. Wassersug literally wrote the book on ADT right?

[stevehmichaels in reply to Jpl506]

....and i still disagree with him !!!!!!!

[Mossman]

I’ve been on androgen deprivation therapy for 2+ uears and have had a few hotflash experiences. It took a while for me to recognize what was going on. I discovered that the inner wrist has a connection to your body’s “temperature sensor” and applying a small ice pack or an ice cube for a few seconds will convince your body it’s not overheating and stop the “flash.”

There is a brilliant MIT inventor who has developed a watch-like wrist device that can sense your hotflash and cool your wrist automatically—shutting down the hotflash. It’s called an EMBR Wave Bracelet and is available online.

[HopefulSis in reply to Mossman]

Clinical trial for Embr device

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

[MateoBeach]

Yes. It worked 100% for me at dose of 0.10 mg/day changed twice weekly. Used tamoxifen 10mg daily so no gynecomastia. Also seemed to improve brain fog, partially anyway. Made ADT with Firmagon quite acceptable.

[VHRguy]

Estradiol skin patches stop my hot flashes completely. Also, restored my energy level, mood (especially improved patience), cognitive awareness, and memory. I feel great! I have some gynecomastia, but it's not bothersome; half the guys my age have some degree of that anyway.

I wonder if the ability to manage hot flashes is dose related? I'm on two of the 0.1mg/day patches, changed twice weekly. To protect bone density, they usually recommend a blood E2 level (estradiol) of 50-60 pg/mL. Yet to feel one's best, somewhat more than that is possibly beneficial. Mine is above that, and I feel really good.

[Bruce66]

I used them twice weekly while I was on Lupron for a year - made a welcome and noticeable difference for me.

[SUPERHEAT12]

Used one a long time ago but thought the side effects were worse than the hot flashes

[Dropzone]

The actual feeling of being hot and the heavy sweating was one thing but the intense anxiety that preceded was altogether different and unmanageable. My doctor prescribed megestrol acetate (synthetic progesterone) and the hot flash issue was completely resolved for me.