Not to take sulforaphane for metastatic cancer ? This dr suggests so?

[Tinkudi]

At around 40 -41 minutes mark this Dr seems to suggest taking sulforaphane for metastatic cancer may not be so wise ? Do I understand it correctly ?

youtu.be/-PNGxNzogOY?si=kXC...(Not working as expected?)

[lcfcpolo]

He doesn't seem to say this at 44 minutes. It's inconclusive what he says about prostate and breast cancer as unfortunately he then distracts himself, without fully answering. Although it does sound like it helps bladder cancer. As others have already stated, there are no studies on supplements for people with metastatic prostate cancer, other than the possible benefit of Sulforaphane. However, it is never a substitute for the standard of care treatment prescribed by a oncologist. It is just something that may help in addition to standard of care. None of us are doctors here. We all just try to support each other as best that we can.

I would suggest reaching out to this doctor or the questioner Rhonda and ask them directly what there opinion is when prostate cancer has spread. If they reply with any information or a update then please start a new thread and post your findings. Thank you.

[Tinkudi in reply to lcfcpolo]

good idea. I will try to do so

[MrG68]

'Certainly eat a vegatable based diet', but with brocolli sprouts its 'we just don't know'. Hhmmmm.

What I would do is to look at as much evidence you can find for both points actually - vegetables and sulforaphane and discard all the ones that are low evidence like meta analysis, observational, opinion pieces etc and try to make a judgement from that.

I suspect the disgarded papers will be the majority.

[spencoid2]

I listened to the whole talk and did not notice any suggestion that sulforaphaneis contraindicated for people with metastatic cancer specifically.

I asked my radiation oncologist whether it made sense to take mushroom supplements during radiation treatment. She said that she recommends that patients avoid any antioxidant supplements when having radiation treatment.She said the radiation kills cancer cells partly by oxidative effects. I forget the specific details. However there are those who say that it protects non cancerous tissue from the effects of radiation. So it can protect non cancerous cells but can also protect cancerous ones as well. This is the reason she suggested stopping antioxidants and in fact most supplements during treatment.

Sulforaphane has antioxidant properties so it may fall into the same class of supplements to avoid when treating cancer. This is what chat said when I asked:

if sulforaphane is antioxidant can if interfere with cancer treatments such as radiation

ChatGPT

Sulforaphane, a compound found in cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, has garnered attention for its potential health benefits, including antioxidant properties. However, when it comes to cancer treatments such as radiation therapy, the interaction between sulforaphane and these treatments can be complex.

Antioxidant Properties: Sulforaphane is known for its antioxidant activity, which means it can help neutralize free radicals in the body. Free radicals are molecules that can damage cells and DNA, potentially leading to cancer development.

Radiation Therapy: Radiation therapy, on the other hand, works by delivering high-energy radiation to cancer cells to destroy them or prevent their growth. It achieves this by inducing DNA damage in cancer cells, which leads to cell death.

Potential Interactions:

Beneficial Effects: Some studies suggest that antioxidants like sulforaphane might enhance the effectiveness of radiation therapy by reducing oxidative stress and inflammation in normal tissues surrounding tumors. This could potentially lower side effects associated with radiation therapy.

Reduction in Efficacy: On the flip side, there is concern that antioxidants could interfere with the therapeutic effects of radiation therapy. Radiation therapy exerts its effect through the generation of free radicals within cancer cells, which contributes to their destruction. Antioxidants, by their nature, can neutralize free radicals, potentially reducing the effectiveness of radiation therapy against cancer cells.

Current Understanding and Recommendations:

Mixed Evidence: The evidence on whether antioxidants interfere with radiation therapy is mixed and often context-dependent. Some studies suggest potential benefits in reducing side effects without compromising treatment efficacy, while others raise concerns about reduced treatment effectiveness.

Consultation with Healthcare Providers: Given the complexity and potential consequences, it's crucial for individuals undergoing radiation therapy to consult their healthcare providers before taking antioxidant supplements, including sulforaphane. Healthcare providers can provide personalized advice based on the specific cancer type, treatment regimen, and overall health of the patient.

Natural Sources vs. Supplements: Obtaining antioxidants from natural dietary sources, such as cruciferous vegetables rich in sulforaphane, is generally considered safe and beneficial. The concern often lies with concentrated antioxidant supplements, where the effects may be more potent and less predictable.

In conclusion, while sulforaphane and other antioxidants like it may have beneficial effects in cancer prevention and general health, their interaction with cancer treatments such as radiation therapy requires careful consideration. Individualized advice from healthcare professionals remains paramount to ensure the best outcomes for cancer patients undergoing treatment.

[Tinkudi in reply to spencoid2]

He does say around the 41 -42 minute mark that it may be a slippery slope for those with mets to take it and there are studies underway which can shed more light on that.

I read Tall Allen also wrote in some posts not to take it while undergoing radiation , chemo or immunotherapy

[Mascouche in reply to Tinkudi]

Actually, it is any antioxidant that you should not take during radiation or chemo. Those treatments use free radicals to kill cancer cells. Since antioxidants fight free radicals, you'd be lowering the efficacy of the treatment by ingesting antioxidants.

[dhccpa in reply to spencoid2]

AI made the common mistake in assuming a patient can simply ask his doctor and get a better answer.

I seriously doubt if this issue has been resolved scientifically. So what can one's doctor honestly say? The science simply isn't there either way.

[spencoid2 in reply to dhccpa]

Yes a single doctor can not give the best answer. Mine said it is unclear and that the safest thing is to not take supplements while doing treatment. I think i will continue taking it at other times but would like more information as it is available.

[dhccpa in reply to spencoid2]

I think that has become more common--to advise not to take antioxidants during radiation (and even before and after for some period) but some clinics may not mention. I doubt if many advise to take.

[Jansverr]

I was taking daily doses of sulphoraphane for several months, but was adviced to stop as my potassium levels was too high.

[Tinkudi in reply to Jansverr]

Did the doctor say the Sulforaphane could have caused the excess potassium ?? Which brand were you taking

[Jansverr]

I cannot remember the brand. I just told him what I was taking and he told me stop. I also had to change medicines for hypertension and quit my daily intake of orange juice and bananas.

[FRTHBST]

From my reading sulphorophane is one supplement where anti prostate cancer is documented. From invitro studies, the anti oxidant effects might be secondary to the epigenetic effects, in that it interferes with some of the basic cellular metabolic changes introduced by cancer. Of course if it acts as an antioxidant this would be a reason not to take it during certain kinds of treatments.

[Tinkudi]

I wrote the Dr Jed who is there in the video I shared if he had any more information and this is what he wrote back -

“Thank you for your interest in our work. Unfortunately I do not have any further data on that. My comment was tendered out of an abundance of caution and I think that it is very important for people to consult with and follow the advice of their oncologists in cases such as you are referring to. Best wishes. --Jed”

[Papillon2]

I found this to be interesting:

cancer.gov/news-events/canc...

[Tinkudi in reply to Papillon2]

Yes. This is interesting.

[RMontana]

Here is what I found in my search (Ai Perplexity search); basically, the studies we have on humans, animals and in vitro show benefits to cancer in general and PCa in specific, to taking sulforaphane. What I am most impressed with is the reduction in the increase of PSA, which indicates that if its not treating (killing) the PCa its slowing it down...better than doing nothing. There is a untested, un researched, concern that upregulated NRF2 will promote cancer cell growth... but which is it! If the PSA growth is slowed down in human testing by 86% HOW then can it be 'increasing' cancer cell growth? If all the other benefits of taking this supplement are shown, for patients with PCa, then how can the same supplement also lead to further metastasis?

Does not make any sense...I think this is the classic 'cover your a##' approach to scientific studies, whereby the researchers want to hedge their bets. I will keep using it as the studies we do have show benefits to reducing PSA, telling me its working to dampen, slow down, even kill PCa cells...PSA is a great marker that we have with PCa to show if its growing, or not...no PSA, no PCa...less PSA, less PCa...that is my take...Rick

Ai PERPLEXITY Search Results...

### Research on the Impact of Sulforaphane on Prostate Cancer Recurrence

#### Key Findings from Studies

1. **Double-Blind Study on Biochemical Recurrence**

- A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled multicenter trial investigated the effects of sulforaphane in 78 men with increasing PSA levels after radical prostatectomy. Participants took 60 mg of stabilized free sulforaphane daily for 6 months.

- **Results**: Although the primary endpoint (a significant decrease in the log PSA slope) was not reached, secondary endpoints showed promising results. The median log PSA slopes were consistently lower in the sulforaphane group, and PSA doubling time was 86% longer compared to the placebo group. This suggests that sulforaphane may help manage biochemical recurrences in prostate cancer after radical prostatectomy[1].

2. **Inhibition of Prostate Cancer Progression in Animal Models**

- Studies in animal models, such as TRAMP mice, have shown that sulforaphane can inhibit prostate cancer progression and metastasis. These effects are attributed to reduced cell proliferation and augmented natural defense mechanisms[1][2].

3. *DNA Damage and Replication Inhibition**

- Sulforaphane has been shown to inhibit DNA replication and cause DNA damage in both prostate cancer and normal cell lines. This suggests a mechanism by which sulforaphane can prevent the growth and proliferation of cancer cells[2][4].

4. **Single-Arm Study on Biochemical Recurrence**

- A single-arm study treated patients with biochemical recurrence of prostate cancer with 200 µmol of sulforaphane. The study found that sulforaphane treatment was associated with stabilization or reduction in PSA levels, indicating potential benefits in managing recurrent prostate cancer[5].

5. **ESCAPE Randomized Controlled Trial**

- The ESCAPE trial is a randomized controlled trial focused on the chemopreventive properties of sulforaphane in prostate cancer. This trial aims to further validate the therapeutic and prognostic benefits of sulforaphane in preventing prostate cancer recurrence[6].

#### Considerations for Sulforaphane Use

- **NRF2 Activation**: Sulforaphane activates the NRF2 pathway, which can have dual roles in cancer. While NRF2 activation can enhance cellular defense mechanisms and provide anticancer effects, it may also promote cancer cell survival in certain contexts. This duality necessitates careful consideration and monitoring when using sulforaphane, especially in the presence of metastatic cancer[2][3].

- **Clinical Evidence**: While preclinical and early clinical studies show promise, more extensive clinical trials are needed to establish definitive guidelines for sulforaphane use in prostate cancer recurrence.

- **Dosage and Administration**: The studies mentioned used various dosages and forms of sulforaphane. It is important to follow the specific dosage recommendations from clinical trials or consult with a healthcare provider for personalized advice.

### Conclusion

Research indicates that sulforaphane may have beneficial effects in managing prostate cancer recurrence, particularly in reducing PSA levels and prolonging PSA doubling time. However, the activation of the NRF2 pathway by sulforaphane presents a complex scenario that requires further investigation. Consulting with your oncologist is crucial to determine the appropriateness of sulforaphane supplementation in your specific case, especially considering your history of metastatic prostate cancer.

For personalized advice and to ensure safety, discuss the potential benefits and risks of sulforaphane with your healthcare provider, who can provide guidance based on your individual health profile and current treatment plan.

Citations:

[1] aacrjournals.org/cancerprev...

[2] mdpi.com/1422-0067/24/8/6979

[3] mdpi.com/1420-3049/28/19/6902

[4] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[5] ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/jc...

[6] frontiersin.org/journals/on...

[7] cancerresearchuk.org/about-...

[8] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...