Good day to all, just want to ask your thoughts about alternatives or complimentary treatments to cancer? The likes of ozone, intravenous vitamins, hyperbaric chamber, rife treatment, intravenous laser??? Have you tried it?? Did you like it? Was your conventional doctor against it??
Alternative or complimentary treatments? - Advanced Prostate...
Alternative or complimentary treatments?
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harleyharhar
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Do you have PCa?
Not me, my father
in reply to harleyharhar
His age please? .. My dad had it too . You need to check your PSa starting at40...I did not and paid the price stage,#4 ..🤙🏽
harleyharhar in reply to
72 now, was biopsied 2017, his psa then was 24, bone scan suggested the dark spots were most likely dgenerative but they couldnt rule out mets, lowest gleason score was 3+3 and highest was 4+3 we were so scared of conventuonal treatment so went to an integrative instead, integrative doc gave nutritional advise with supplements and did not stop us from choosing conventional treatment, still scared of conventional we still went with nutrition+supplement+duodart, went well but dad backslid and ate some pork chicken and beef when given the chance so eventually urine flow got blocked and some blood a few times, the same integ doc mentioned earlier got into a bigger clinic with some machines as treatment, we just tried it nit knowing if it would work, fortunetly it did work, urine flow got back to normal but we couldnt continue with the treatment coz i was too busy with work and dad got complacent, everything was going well until dad was backsliding again with nutrition, this time he was getting some edema on his feet, we coudnt get back to the same clinic mentioned earlier coz of lockdown so we tried a new integ doctor in a nearby hospital (our conventional hospital here actually has an integrative clinic within it) unfortunately it seems for this integ doc, the meds she gave to us only made the problem worse, there was no more choice but to go back to a conventuonal urologist. This time around the treatmebt given by this urologist was not as scary as before, we had another bone scan and this time dad bones were much cleaner than 2017, in the coming week dad will have a laser turp procedure followed up by zoladex
in reply to harleyharhar
At 72 it’s tuff to change diet. If someone can cook for and eat with him then it’s easier. It was hard for me at 53 to stop all sugar processed food and animal proteins. But my sweetheart drive me into healing with organic only . I know it’s helped me stay out of the noose for now. If I hadn’t made drastic dietary changes I wouldn’t be here. I take $600 per month in nutrients. After six years of the same I’m used to the routine. That first two years were hell! Now I eat non dairy organic substitutes.. my dad got bladder cancer at 69 after he smoked 2 pacs of Salem menthols for 30 yrs. although he had quit 15 years prior. He beat that with Chemo containing lip TB. Two years later pc. He had an rp. I saw him and he was gaunt and emotionally depleted. Mom drove him into an early grave with her emotional abuse . He died a year later at 71 years young. He decided to check out rather than finish away . He had some heart event. Mom
Refused an autopsy.. love you father. I miss mine everyday . It’s been 24 years. Take care
Quackery runs amok in some PCa circles - beware of the magic bullet or 'miracle cure' or some naturopathic 'remedy' that sucks wallets empty while delivering promises that amount to nothing.
As P.T. Barnum wisely spoke of ......
That does not mean to suggest that there aren't 'complimentary' - often 'off label' drugs and supplements that do HELP support the battle vs. the beast BUT IF there was one or several MAGIC bullets, then it follows with the statement - show me the FACTS about the so many who have already been healed from this menace using (quack) remedy XYZ ?
You won't find it.
You'll need to do a LOT more reading and research to inform you and your 'afflicted' family member as to what decision making is based on science, completed clinical trials and the SOCs (Standard of Care) that are out there.
IF you choose to go the route of the 'stubborn and the dreamers' you will pay a heavy price IMO.
By the way, I do use some 'off label' meds and DO take some supplements - so I'm not averse to them.
Wishing you the best on your journey ......
Read this first:
prostatecancer.news/2018/07...
Having had two parents who died of their cancers, I understand the temptation to do something, anything, when all control has been taken away from you. I strongly recommend you resist that temptation, especially if it involves putting a substance into his body. You have no idea what the interactions are with other therapies. Some, like ozone, are known to be toxic. When his body is already stressed by the cancer is a time to be particularly careful.
I advocate a truely holistic approach - body, mind and spirit. The best things he can do for his body is get plenty of exercise and eat a varied and nutritious diet. For his mind, I highly recommend (and myself practice) mindfulness, and learning new things. For his spirit, social interaction is critical - family, and friends, especially. Also, comedy/laughter, attending church, prayer, hobbies, art (galleries, museums, contemplating beauty), music (concerts, radio, playing), reading, writing memoirs, looking at photos, etc.
Gotta love the holistic approach, defnitly if we want to get well we need to give up what made us sick in the first place, it is also true that what works for one might not for the other so ultimately it is the patient's body that determines if the treatment is best
I'm certainly not saying that "if we want to get well we need to give up what made us sick in the first place." It took a lifetime of inputs and many irreversible genomic errors to create the cancer. If we want to get well, we have to treat it - we can't undo what has been done. I'm just saying, don't neglect the whole person while treating the body. Each of us is more than just the disease we suffer from. It's easy to lose sight of that.
It is true that the treatments we have are based on the population as a whole, and may vary somewhat from individual to individual. But the best starting point is always the assumption that you are average - not that you are extraordinary. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs.
Yes true
I have to concur withTall_Allen. My late partner was a fanatical vegan for 20 years, so had a serious fibre based diet and yet died of bowel cancer. (Diet right?)
LInda was a naturopath with a deep understanding of Gerson cancer therapy. On dagnosis she also opted for months of Amygdalin injections from apricot kernals, Costly, and no impact. Also earlier, despite her Gerson based efforts, cancer took her beloved step-father.
One of the most published researchers in Lu177 treatment for PCa cautioned me some years back to" beware of medicaly induced financial trauma".
You can waste a lot of money on unproven treatments, as we did on Amygdalin injections for no results.
For PCa, I use conventional treatments and take adjuvants of statins and metformin. Both adjuvants are unproven, low cost, don't impact my quality of life and MAY be beneficial.
But exercise is crucial, as is mental attitude, I'm less on the diet path given our history.
Here is the mental game. If we are born, the only certainity is we will die.
I have incurable PCa ( not terminal, as one may still die of something else) so the motvating question is what do I want to do with my undeterminable remaining time? The game is to accept the inevitabilty of dying someday.
The key mental game is to work on maximising the value between here and then. Sadly I can't tell you how to imbue this to your father.
What does statins and metformin do for pca?? Isnt it for cholsterol and blood sugar?
Amygdalin is something i also dont believe in
in reply to harleyharhar
There are some studies indicating that men on statins do better with their PCA when on ADT. But doesn’t make sense to me to get on them just for that. Here’s one someone forwarded me just today. na01.safelinks.protection.o...
Justfor_ in reply to
Along with my PSA I test cholesterols and Hormones. My PSA curve is a textbook exponential growth. Two tests where the PSA inched a tiny bit higher than extrapolated, coincided with not having taken my statins for a week before the test. I also have noticed a weak relation (R^2=0.44) of LDT to total Testosterone.
Harley, the study at this link may help on statins/metformin/Pca
I don't know if you or anyone else here read Allens's EXCELLENT write-up accessed thru the link in Allen's reply above. If you do read, there are many comments below that article, and a back and forth comment section where a number of guys argue that Allen's factual observations of outcomes for men who choose Alternative or complementary medicine fail to properly account for QOL often lost if one chooses conventional radiation, surgery, ADT, or chemo......all indeed can have very significant and life-changing side effects. Allen reiterates several times that conventional treatments actually improve overall QOL, whereas other guys argue that is not the case. I think possibly the arguments may be based on comparing apples to oranges? Nowadays, so many men are diagnosed very early in what would be , without treatment, death from PCa after X years. But, it seems to now be accepted that early treatment can. indeed allow many of such men to live X plus some number of additional years. I think what those who argue with Allen are referencing is that early treatment so often results in very undesirable SEs, and the man who chooses that asymptomatic early treatment and experiences one or more serious side effect, will look back and say to himself, plus his Doc...I was feeling fine, and now look what I am dealing with!!!! Treatment or not, I will probably ultimately face all the agony of uncontrolled metastases, and now I am also facing the bad SEs of the treatment, severely limiting my QOL, not from the cancer right now, but from the treatment!!! In hindsight, wish I hadn't chosen early treatment.....had I not, maybe I'd had another 2,3, 4,...... years of high QOL before becoming symptomatic from the PCa.
Now, for the man who faces a PCa diagnosis after symptoms have already appeared, frequently pain, treatment at that time may well ease PCa pain, etc....thus that man will respond that treatment improved his QOL!! and for that man, the SOC treatment may well give him an extra 1,2,3.... years, maybe with side effects, but SEs that seem acceptable compared to the pain, etc faced before any treatment.
Does my formulation make any sense at all...to anyone??? Please correct me!!
Makes sense to me, perhaps timing is important also, one urologist i watched on youtube says if the cancer isnt causing any symptom then he wont touch it
Harley - It would be so great if you could somehow find that Doc's youtube presentation and provide the link. If you do, valuable to me, and I will post at other PCa forums...every year tens of thousands of men faced with that situation...asymptomatic...and rushed into "life-saving" treatment with many unhappy campers when the SEs hit.....imagine urethral stricture..rushing to hospital for relief...one of the nastier radiation goodies...yes, fairly uncommon, but when you are that guy??? incontinence from surgery for a good number of men.....from a few months to unending. Penis shrinkage.....some of us don't have much to sacrifice !! Many men here and on other forums say their Docs barely mentioned these.....mine will not get away with that!!
Oh then there is the long list of ADT nightmares...lucky is the man who doesn't suffer those consequences!!
Sorry for a really late reply, didnt notice, here is the link
Well Harley, welcome . Most of us with APC do conventional treatments if we are to survive. I didn’t like doctors ,modern med or big pharma before . Until APC i was never sick... However, I didn’t go to the urologist until I stopped peeing . Almost too late .. an aggressive cancer needs some poison to slow it down . It just won’t go away with out drastic measures. The diet and natural path help recovery and side effects . I did imrt along with double adt .But I also flipped into the naturalpathic recommended diet and nutrition plan . My first two years I did bi-weekly 50 gram vitamin c ivs .. along with dmso at times . I did a high dose Thc program at the same time . 60 grams in 90 days . I did this all through the 8 weeks of imrt .. I went into undetech mode and have stayed here now over five years . A far cry from the original dx given by the uro of 36 months , no matter what I did . I feel that the naturalpath helped me mucho . It was very costly though .. the uro and mo both said not to do the high dose during RT . I did it anyway . I Would do hyperbaric too or others natural methods if I could afford them . Good luck. Heal thyself .
harleyharhar in reply to
Thanks, by the way whats the A in apc? Is it "aggressive" as in agressive prostate cancer? We also do the nutrition part, defnitly a big help. One time dad also tried iv vitamin c but got chills and fever at times, sometimes no chills at all, we dont know how that happens
in reply to harleyharhar
Unfortunately the A is for ADVANCED ... meaning Stage#4 .. stick by pops side . It is a hell of a road to walk alone .Take care friend .
I your dad is getting chills and fever during the procedure, then the speed of IVC drip is to fast. Also during IVC your dad needs to drink a lot (and I mean a lot) of water and couple of cups of green tea. When I receiving 100g, I drink approximately 2-2.5 liters of water (that includes hot tea). You can read how to find right dose, speed and what solution it should be if you Google IVC protocol Riordan clinic.
Also kidney functions needs to be monitored closely.
Looking back, it seems that doctor wasnt doing things properly, i recall he would just use the same iv bottle that he used with previous patients, the bottle already had a lot of punctures because the doc would just stab it to pour the cocktail into the iv solution
Garbonzeaux in reply to
DMSO, as in dimethylsulfoxide, given as IV along with vitamin C, really? First I'm hearing of this. DMSO is sometimes used in chemistry to help solubilize compounds which are poorly soluble in water, but that is certainly not the case for VitC. Can you provide evidence that DMSO itself might be helpful against PCa?
Is this Scott? How are things in AZ this time of year?
in reply to Garbonzeaux
Hey guy! Tis I.. I did some did DMSO ivs during imrt . It as on off days from vit c ivs . I don’t really know the science of it all . I follow dr . Uzick in this . It did give me great energy for several days afterwards . Also I smelled like garlic for days . I felt it was cleansing to me . Vit c also gave me energy when my urology was barely working . So I don’t know if the DMSO was anti pc but I felt it’s benefits .. if I had the$ I d do these again .. Take care 🌵
in reply to Garbonzeaux
All is well here . Thank you Sir .
Scottybear in reply to
I assume your 60 grams was RSO? How did you take it? Sublingually? I’m stocking up to do the same..
in reply to Scottybear
Correct! RSO . I did it in gel caps with some tea . But at n point I made my own sips and applied those accordingly . Through the digestive track 70% lost ,in the supp 75% is right into the blood . I still have prostate so I figured it was almost a direct application . I’ve done a twice daily 1/10 gram dose ever since . I started smoking after dx and use it daily for dizziness nasa and moods . Take care Scottybear ! Scott 🍀🌿
The ideal way is logical, conventional treatment PLUS complementary dietary/supplementary treatments including regular exercise and relaxation therapies.
SOC. Standard of care from a knowledgeable MO, RO, UO bolstered by second opinions.
Exercise. Social interactions. Appreciate your caregiver. Combat pain. Get some sleep. Calm your mind.
You may ADD some treatments AFTER careful consideration but NEVER in place of SOC. Most are ultimately useless and some are ill advised.
You are not healthy but act like it. Look forward to the next second or day alive.
The last laugh is to out live all expectations.
2Dee
You'll get quite a variety of feedback. Fenbendazole has been my main alternative for a year, but with many supplements as well. Also whole food plant based diet with exercise.
Omg, just few months ago i also read some claims about fenbendazole being anti cancer, how was your experience so far? You think its working?
I'm stable after using for a year (been on Lupron since 11/2018) but not ready to claim victory yet. 2021 should be very interesting.
It has been shown that fenbendazole is not very effective against stage 4 PCa. Fb works by blocking metabolic pathways cancers use to draw energy, primarily glucose. Advanced PCa draws energy from primarily fatty acids, but also glucose, glycine and through autophagy (salvage of material from killed cells). to impact PCa we have to block all the metabolic pathways. I do not as yet have any personal experience here, only 2yrs reading. You can google off-label drugs to fight cancer. Also there is a book, How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland. She cured her own incurable stage 4 cancer using diet, exercise, off-label drugs, and supplements, with S O C. S O C failed me In 9/2020. I got the book and think I have a good understanding what I need . Strange thing, my oncologist has agreed to script the meds (metformin, doxycycline, a statin, .... The list goes on. A lot of information out there. The rule is you do your own research. I have been reading for 2 years. Am on 6 different blog, support network, PCa information sites. S O C works until it doesn't. For me that was 2 1/2 yrs. We will see what happens in the next 6 months.
To make a very long story short I have found three supplemental alternatives that do seem to help. I won't say they cure but they do help. They are lycopenes, heat, and magnets. I have covered them recently for another similar post. I don't go into them unless someone asks for details. But know that I have tried many things over my 13 years with Pc. Those three help.
lifeextension.com/magazine/...
drgonzalezmd.com/high-fever....
sciencenewsforstudents.org/...
In other words just Google them.
I had two courses of ozone in mexico at the Ongley institute in Ensenada during my almost 18 year remission after brachytherapy and external beam radiation in 2000 at age 53.
Ozone in 2011 and 2017. No idea if it slowed or speeded up reoccurrence. The fasting/detox needed before ozone was certainly good for waistline and energy.
Chelation there did wonders for blood pressure. But no idea if any effect on PC
Of my three uncles and grandfather who all passed on from pc one elected Laetrile (amygdalin) in Tijuana snd other alternatives to surgery (only tx available in those years). He may have had better overall QOL but passed on a little younger chronologically than his dad or two brothers did
So many different versions of PCa...we have chosen a journey different than SOC but add some stuff carefully as needed. Currently mCPRC with mets in bones.
BRCA2 + aggressive 12/12 cores, Gleason 8 growing upwards blocking urethra at diagnosis in Sept '19. Surgery wouldn't get all out, not a candidate for Proton, HiFu, radiation they said. Wanted to hit it with surgery, salvage radiation, Lupron and Chemo all at once.
We left for Germany the next week...Hyperthermia, Bucerlin depot (like lupron) and a week of alternative therapies like chelation, IV vitamins, oxygenate blood, etc.
Primarily eat organic whole food, plant based, cancer keto w/ small amounts good sourced protein every meal. Monitor blood sugar and ketones daily.
Fast forward 4+ years...we have many tools (full spectrum Infrared sauna, PEMF mat), he does daily coffee enemas, meditates, many spiritual therapists, works out, no sugar, dairy, alcohol, coffee, refined carbs for 4+ years, etc. 100% IN!
Epigenetic IV treatments for 6 mos. 18/19.
Germany again for 3+ weeks 2019
Canada for 4 weeks 2020
TURP to help urinate and just finished 3 weeks of radiation/hyperthermia for L1 vertebrae/right femur targeted therapy.
Just bought HBOT chamber and added 2-3 hr/night to help with radiation damage plus cancer fighting and healing properties.
Naturopathic team prescribes many supplements -mistletoe injections, vitamins specific to his Nutrigenome & NutrEval reports and monitor labs and make adjustments constantly.
It is a full time job! He's not sick or in pain or in hospital (well, wasn't but is suffering from aftermath of radiation treatments so pukes once a day and his pooper hurts a lot).
It not as simple as eating healthy and hoping for the best in his case. We were tempted to start Chemo and he got the port but we were just talked out of that because he was born with alpha thalassemia and the concern is it will destroy his bone marrow.
So adding HBOT, new supplements and making fresh tweaks to protocols based on labs.
Bottom line, if dealt with an aggressive version we have to be aggressive treating specific to individual regardless of SOC or alternative treatments. We have found the SOC route doesn't look as deeply at the individual, genetics or even order labs that give more information, so we use our other team to help make informed decisions. This route takes money and dedication and a whole lot of time. Definitely not for everyone!
So Hardley a har har to you too.... Tell me where are you located in the Pines? My wife is Pinay....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 03/07/2021 6:05 PM EST
Hello sir, we live within metro manila, las piñas city to be exact
Hello to all, im surprised by the number of replies to my post here, really appreciate all of you, cant reply much now, dad just got laser turp this afternoon and will probably get zoladex tomorrow, really hoping he wont get a lot of side effects, thank you very much to all of you, will reply in a few days
Hi po. How much is the cost of zoladex ? Just want to get an idea.
Around 14,151 pesos. We got the doctor's discount since dad's urologist is the owner of the prostate center, very good urologist
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