Alternative Therapies: Has anyone added... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Alternative Therapies

JolleySprings profile image
63 Replies

Has anyone added Ozone Therapy and/or Vit C IV to their traditional medical treatments? If so, did it make a difference??

Thank you!!!

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63 Replies
Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

I have not taken ozone therapy however I can recommend many other supplements that the ACS and the NIH have tested and found somewhat effective.

Magnus

JolleySprings profile image
JolleySprings in reply to Magnus1964

please share

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to JolleySprings

see my reply below. I wanted to post so everyone can see it.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Magnus1964

Neither the American Cancer Society has never tested any supplements -- it's not what they do. The NIH has tested only 2 supplements for prostate cancer - Vitamin E and Selenium. Vitamin E was found to be cause prostate cancer. Selenium caused prostate cancer in combination with Vitamin E.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

You also asked about iv Vitamin C. It was tried and found to be useless:

"Twenty-three patients were enrolled in this study, and 20 completed the efficacy evaluation at 12 weeks. The mean baseline PSA level was 43 µg/L. No patient achieved a 50% PSA reduction; instead, a median increase in PSA of 17 µg/L was recorded at week 12. Among the secondary endpoints, no signs of disease remission were observed. In total, 53 adverse events (AEs) were recorded. Eleven were graded as “serious”. Three AEs were directly related to AA, and all of which were related to fluid load."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

You are correct, the ACS does not "test" supplements, but they do evaluate those supplements that are tested by the NIH and other SCIENTIFIC institutions. The NIH has tested NUMEROUS compounds and yes supplements.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Magnus1964

Your made up misinformation can harm patients. Show me even one link from NIH (other than the SELECT trial) or ACS where they have tested supplements for PCa and found them to be beneficial.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Tall_Allen

Thank you for your work debunking the constant barrage of misinformation on this forum. Unfortunately, some people who are on this forum are only interested in promoting unproven "alternatives" and diet/supplement religions. Unproven treatments are not a "compliment" to proven treatments.

Sunlight12 profile image
Sunlight12 in reply to Tall_Allen

TA,

It's a stretch to call the semantics of testing a supplement vs evaluating a supplement "misinformation". For someone in the field, like yourself, the distinction is likely critical. But for many of us Average Joe's, it amounts to the same thing.

-Sun

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Sunlight12

I think a test is an evaluation too, and have no idea what you're referring to. The ACS doesn't test supplements. The only supplements I'm aware of that NIH tested for PCa is Vitamin E and Selenium. Magnus1964 did not provide any link that would prove his assertion, so we are all forced to consider it misinformation.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

See my response below.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Tall_Allen

The "doctor" who claims to treat patients with ozone might be operating out of a state like Nevada that has loose laws regarding medical practice, they even protect quacks see article:

sciencebasedmedicine.org/ne...

A friend of mine went off to Reno to be treated in one of these quack clinics that supposedly offered "alternative" and natural treatments. He believed all the marketing crap about how there there were natural ways to heal from his stage 4 Pca without all of terrible side effects of "conventional" treatments. After all, BIG Pharma and the evil medical establishment are only after your money. Tell that to his bankrupt widow who was left with the enormous bills and a dead husband who died quickly without any real proven treatments.

Genrally they prefer patients who have already had successful SOC treatments (like many here) so they can say "look how well our alternatives are working!!!!", when they had nothing to do with it. Their websites are full of stories about these patients while my friend's story is nowhere to be found.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

"made up misinformation " is not appropriate for the forum.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Magnus1964

I agree. So please stop doing it.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

I mean that sçaying my posts are "made up misinformation". It is an ad hominem attack. Please don't do that or I will report you to Darryl.

Magnus

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Magnus1964

It isn't ad hominem, but your post was pure misinformation. NIH and ACS do not research supplements (other than the SELECT trial) for prostate cancer. Feel free to report me.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

See my response below.

Haskell profile image
Haskell

predictable responses.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

I can give you some guidance on “complimentary” medicines. My advice is do not rely on alternative approaches. A complimentary approach uses supplements in conjunction with standard order of care from your doctor, and always inform your doctor of all supplements you take.

I have been fighting this disease for 30 years and have taken more than my share of vitamins and supplements. I treat supplements like any standard medication. When it fails and my PSA rises for a few consecutive tests, I move on to something else. If you want, I can send you an list of supplements I have taken but in the meantime here are some websites you might find helpful.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

cancer.gov/about-cancer/tre...

jtcm.org/

mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagn...

nccih.nih.gov/

info.nsf.org/Certified/diet...

usp.org/

quality-supplements.org/ver...

Magnus

JolleySprings profile image
JolleySprings in reply to Magnus1964

Thank you! Yes! We definitely are under the care of Prostate Cancer Oncologists … I was asking about “in addition to” traditional treatments. Thank you!

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to Magnus1964

Many thx Magnus! Tomorrow is Sunday and so I will spend the day with reading what‘s behind your links. Of course besides of exercising, cooking, eating and chilling.

I really appreciate most of the infos on this website, especially yours and the ones from Tall Allen. We are all warriors, fighting to survive and for improved QOL. I pick out what I think is good for me and create my own cocktail. And I trust in your complementary approach, too.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Nusch

Please read this before you decide to take supplements of unknown toxicity, purity, and interactions with current meds and with your microbiome.

prostatecancer.news/2018/07...

I do understand the desperation that is causing you to want to take control by any means possible. You may be doing more damage than you know.

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to Tall_Allen

Done! But you’ve got me wrong (again). I did RP, RT and chemo and I‘m still on Lupron. So complementary for me really means complimentary.

What do I do complementary?

- Running

- Weight lifting

- Gymnastics

- Meditation and stress reduction

- WFPBD

- 18:6 time restricted eating

I take curcumin. If I can’t grab pomegranate, I supplement them, too. I follow up my nutrition with CRONOMETER and supplement what I miss from my vegan diet to the daily recommended intake, among these are Vit D, calcium, B12, sulphoran, magnesium and iodine (Wakame algae).

Doing quite well, can’t complain.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Nusch

I understood. I practice holism myself- body, mind and spirit. Unfortunately many confuse holism with a religious belief that nature provides everything we need, and natural=good. You have no idea if your body is "doing quite well." Biochemistry isn't something one knows by intuition. Curcumin may interfere with PSA tests.

prostatecancer.news/2019/04...

Pomegranate has been proven to be ineffective, but it won't harm you.

jcancer.org/v04p0597.htm

nature.com/articles/pcan201532

Some people (Hindus, Buddhists, Seventh Day Adventists) have religious beliefs that promote veganism - I have no problem with that. Others think, without evidence, that it is healthier. The best evidence we have (and it is high GRADE level 1) is that increasing vegetable intake has no influence on prostate cancer.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to Tall_Allen

It’s a bit difficult to discuss with you, but I’m sure I’m not the first one providing this feedback. 😉

When I say, I’m doing quite well this is based on:

- how I personally feel - surprise, that’s important for me and every morning I thank universe

- my most recent PSA test

- my most recent PSMA Pet/Ct

- my most recent blood test

- my doctor

So it’s far away from esoteric. Of course I don’t know, what the future will bring. But this „no-knowledge“ you and I share. Have a great day, I will sleep soon.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

I am a pescatarian (fish only). I would prefer not to eat domestic animals pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones. Those agrochemicals can not be good for a hormone fed cancer.

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to Magnus1964

Couldn’t agree more. Last summer I passed by a fish farm with the boat. Unbelievable, how fish are treated. I wouldn’t want to eat poisoned fish either.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Nusch

Wild caught only.

Lrv44221 profile image
Lrv44221 in reply to Nusch

Good for you Nusch!!

Many things compliment what the medical profession tells us

Mediation is so helpful with many situations as well as pc

Keep non keeping one

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to Magnus1964

Your list of supplements/alternative things would be welcome here. You must have quite a list after all these years.

GSDF profile image
GSDF in reply to Magnus1964

So happy to see you posting again Mag... You've been sorely missed.!

Lrv44221 profile image
Lrv44221 in reply to Magnus1964

much thanks Magnus👍

BB_1 profile image
BB_1

I did try it once. I do take supplements that may be be more effective. I do not trust the FDA, NIH or the ACS.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to BB_1

Dunning-Kruger

science.org/doi/10.1126/sci...

witantric profile image
witantric

My view is without scientific evidence, we should do natural interventions because it makes us feel better. However, we should religiously follow modern medicine. Natural interventions make us feel good, sure. I am falling on the side of TA here. Natural interventions make us feel psychologically in control. Fine.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to witantric

I agree that it's really about control. Finding things we can do that make us feel better about that has value. We just have to make sure that they are not harmful.

Where I object is when people start shamelessly promoting "alternatives" as treatments for cancer and promoting them here, particularly harmful things like ozone. Luckily we have people like TA that push back on this, otherwise we'd have a forum overrun with promotions and solicitions for unproven treatments. I know someone who died following the kind of quackery that some people here promote so it's personal for me.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

Ozone is a toxic gas. People who die by inhaling it don't die of cancer, and can't respond to posted questions.

You are free to follow any wacky cure and conspiracy theory for yourself. Medical science is a process of agreement by experts based on hypothesis testing. By setting yourself outside of medical science, you endanger your own survival:

prostatecancer.news/2018/07...

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw

Prostate Cancer, Nutrition, and Dietary Supplements (PDQ®)–Patient Version - NCI

cancer.gov/about-cancer/tre...

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to smurtaw

thank you smarty, very helpful!

JolleySprings profile image
JolleySprings

Thank you!

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

Ozone is toxic to ingest. I would think a physician would know that.

There are all kinds of wacky doctors who treat their patients with toxic therapies and claim they've "treated hundreds of patients with good success." Many practice in Mexico or in other countries where they won't lose their license and can bilk patients out of money. If you or doctors you claim to know have used it successfully, where is the publication in a peer-reviewed medical journal?

Out-of-the-box treatments are fine for hypotheses. Science doesn't advance without hypotheses. Only a Mengele tries such things clinically without going through the approved process. It involves screening new substances in lab tests and in animals, and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. If successful, small clinical trials, approved by IRBs is the only way it should ever be done. If you've treated patients without IRB approval and informed consent, you are guilty of a felony. This is laid out in the Helsinki Accords:

wma.net/policies-post/wma-d...

All legal clinical trials done in the US are listed on clinicaltrials.gov, and results must be published in a peer-reviewed journal.

We keep coming back to the importance of peer-review and the journalistic standards required for publication. That's what prevents physicians from making unsupported claims.

Shame on you for not knowing this, and bilking patients.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon in reply to Tall_Allen

I couldn't find any peer reviewed papers or RCTs for vaginal or rectal insufflation of ozone. To the contrary, I found an FDA warning: The FDA prohibits all medical uses of ozone, "In any medical condition for which there is no proof of safety and effectiveness", stating "Ozone is a toxic gas with no known useful medical application in specific, adjunctive, or preventive therapy. In order for ozone to be effective as a germicide, it must be present in a concentration far greater than that which can be safely tolerated by man and animals."

ecfr.gov/current/title-21/c...

I guess we are just supposed to believe that this "doctor" had great success using a prohibited substance to treat patients without any evidence. This is standard practice in the alternatives world where wild claims can be made without evidence and we are supposed to believe them without asking questions or seeing proof.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to EdBacon

I am shocked that a physician (or so he claims) would treat patients with toxic substances without any proof. I suspect he is lying. If not, I hope he will give his real name so that he will be indicted for a felony.

No_stone_unturned profile image
No_stone_unturned in reply to Tall_Allen

I would also add that:

1. chemotherapy is also toxic, so practically speaking, it’s more about which toxic treatments offer survival benefits and which do not.

2. Perhaps this forum qualifies as a patient peer review? I can’t imagine anyone more motivated and unbiased than those living with this disease.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to No_stone_unturned

Chemotherapy is toxic, but has been well-tested. Its toxicities are known, and some are preventable. Moreover, its benefit is well known. Patients can make informed decisions based on that knowledge of risks and benefits. Ozone is just plain toxic with no known survival benefit, and high risk of killing the patient. It is only administered by quacks like Cub49614 and his friends who harm patients and bilk them of their money.

The OP's request for patient peer-review is admirable. But you can see from the flood of misinformation he got, that patient peer-review can be dangerous and misleading. When an important journal uses peer-reviewers, they get qualified researchers in the field of interest to comment. On patient forums, one has no idea who the responding patient is, what his motivations are, and whether or not he is just making things up.

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito

cub, I just read Allen’s reply to your post. … a rambling of passive aggressive attacks. Last year I left this forum, for exactly that kind of response… I came back because I realized there are many people like you and others on on this forum that have helped me so much.

Lrv44221 profile image
Lrv44221 in reply to Miomarito

good for you

I too quit posting but I’m going to stay and help with my knowledge from my heart @♥️

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Miomarito

I agree with you that we all would enjoy more civility if HealthUnlocked had a "Block" button, the way Twitter does. This would block me from seeing your posts and you from seeing mine. Perhaps if you write to the HealthUnlocked administrators, they will add that feature.

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito in reply to Tall_Allen

how about this Allen….I find your posts regarding prostate cancer amazing, always trying my best to understand the studies and your opinions on traditional therapies. Your posts are a huge contribution to this site…..I would use the block button when you intimidate good people that ask a question that you don’t agree with.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

The NIH databases are filled with reports of testing being done on compounds and supplements, and there effect on prostate cancer. This is not an indorsment of these supplements, only studies of their effects.

Here is a small sample.

ncbi.nim.nih.gov

Diindolylmethane

Nimbolide

Dimethylsulfoxide

chlorine dioxide

Methylumbelliferone

alpha lipoic acid

Bromelain

Superoxide Dismutase

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Magnus1964

Pubmed is just an online service operated by NIH. They do not do any testing whatsoever. All they do is show what has been published in peer-reviewed publications.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

What is wrong with that? They are articles written by 'real" researchers.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Magnus1964

Nothing is wrong with it, Pubmed is just a compendium, like a on-line library. They do no testing themselves. Many supplements have been studied and published in various peer-reviewed publications. None, with the possible exception of sulforaphane, have been found to be useful and some have been found to be harmful. Even sulforaphane should not be taken by patients using radiation or immunotherapy.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Tall_Allen

I was just proving a point, NIH database DO contain studies of compounds and supplements.

Lrv44221 profile image
Lrv44221

I agree and made a suggestion to TA a few minutes ago

Cub49614 profile image
Cub49614

I have attached links to Ozone therapy

orbisphera.org/Pages/Artico...

orbisphera.org/Pages/BeneCo...

orbisphera.org/Pages/PrimoP...

doi.org/10.1186/s41231-022-...

email.mg1.substack.com/c/eJ...

orbisphera.org/Pages/BeneCo...

ozonemasterclasses.com/

r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001G4Y...

r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001G4Y...

r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001G4Y...

email.mg1.substack.com/c/eJ...

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Cub49614

See EdBacon's post above. None of your citations are about clinical use of ozone for prostate cancer. Many are from illegitimate sources - anyone can post a youtube video or write an article that is not peer-reviewed. The fact that it is used in Europe to kill bacteria in the water supply, just as chlorine is used in the US, might make you pause and say "Holy cow! This stuff is toxic!" If you would use your real name, I would certainly report you for felonious treatment of patients.

EdBacon profile image
EdBacon

What Allen said is not opinion. Ozone is a toxic gas which has no known, proven medical benefits. "Ozone is a toxic gas with no known useful medical application in specific, adjunctive, or preventive therapy. In order for ozone to be effective as a germicide, it must be present in a concentration far greater than that which can be safely tolerated by man and animals."

ecfr.gov/current/title-21/c...

Any doctor administering ozone in the US would be subject to losing their license and/or litigation since it is a prohibited subtance for medical use.

He is not "rude and crude" for pointing out science facts regarding harmful substances. People need to keep their alternatives religion off of this forum for the safety of everyone.

Gl448 profile image
Gl448

This thread has turned into the perfect example of why the ability to block people (or even entire threads) from showing in their feed should be enabled.

Allen brings facts with proper citations. Too many others bring voodoo, magic foods, worthless supplements, hearsay, and other useless ideas and defend them religiously/emotionally despite actual scientific evidence disproving them being offered up.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Gl448

Try writing to support@healthunlocked.com about adding a block button that blocks trolls from seeing and responding to your posts. I wrote to them, but if more people do it, perhaps they will listen.

Cub49614 profile image
Cub49614

It is not a felony to use ozone as a therapy in the US. This therapy is used in the US and all over the world. There are courses here and abroad. I invite anyone with an open mind to research ozone therapy here and abroad. Just because the FDA said there is no medical value in ozone, doesn’t make it so

Attached are links to ozone therapy classes here and abroad.

shallenbergerozonecourse.com/

ozonesociety.org/ozone-ther...

oxygenhealingtherapies.com/...

ozonemasterclasses.com/

spa-in-spain.com/blog1/2013...

Miomarito profile image
Miomarito

There is nothing wrong with seeking information and making your own choice in therapy. When did eating properly and taking a few supplements become so bad. I don’t see that anyone here is running out to hook themselves up to ozone .

Bethishere profile image
BethishereAdministrator

occasionally posts and reply threads break down, becoming clash festivals. I think the useful discussion about ozone is complete. Replies are now turned off.

The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.

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