Orthorexia and Cancer: Key points... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Orthorexia and Cancer

cesces
cesces

Key points: Orthorexia nervosa, or the obsession with nutritional eating, can be especially triggered in cancer patients who need to manage anxiety and feel more control over their diagnosis. To avoid this, dietary changes should be approached carefully.

psychologytoday.com/us/blog...

84 Replies

Wow, there's a name for it! I can tell you this: when "orthorexia nervosa" bumps into "addictive food cravings" then it gets ugly. I want to "eat well" as a way coping with anxiety and asserting some control, and then the anxiety of trying to eat well makes me desire COMFORT FOOD!

dhccpa
dhccpa in reply to noahware

And that's the day the Twinkie met the Raw Onion in a dark corridor where children never venture.

tom67inMA
tom67inMA in reply to noahware

For a couple months, I was losing weight on chemo and as a result comfort food became a healthy choice for preventing further weight loss. Stress free eating! As my cancer shrinks and I'm becoming more active, my weight is starting to increase, so it looks like there's more broccoli and less ice cream in my future.

In a pathological society where pathological greed and selfish, materialistic ideology becomes central to life, every human behavior is seen as "pathological". So now, if some one starts eating rational, healthy food, it is called "a disorder" A sick ,immature society can see everything in terms of sickness...and how profits can be maximized from these so called "disorders". If you eat healthy ,you have a disorder, If you eat junk ,you have a disorder, if you are attached and respect your parents, you are "dependent" If you love your wife and feel close to her, you are "codependent" ...These are some of the signs of a very "sick" culture.

This type of culture creates a very insecure, fearful population in spite of extreme amount of wealth.

cesces
cesces in reply to LearnAll

Then again, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

See generally, quackwatch.com

dhccpa
dhccpa in reply to cesces

Has quackwatch taken on Jane McLelland or Edward Friedman yet? Or Joe Tippens? Last time I checked it hadn't.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to LearnAll

I am adding another Doctorate to your current one--in Phycology! Thesis Accepted!

Nal

cesces
cesces in reply to Nalakrats

LOL

That explains why, when he was last seen, he was covered with seaweed and pond scum.

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to LearnAll

what do youthink is the underlying cause for our sick society?

LearnAll
LearnAll in reply to maley2711

There are several causes: The biggest cause is that people are living longer and therefore, older bodies have too many diseases, weakened immune system and vulnerabilities. Then, of course there are other causes such as the type of belief system and definition of success a society has. Because this ties into amount of mental stress people have. Lack of trust and absence of solid supportive relationships are other reasons.

Then, the medical system who is too eager to label everything as "pathological" because their fees and payments are tied to this kind of labelling.

Not accepting our limitations and inevitability of death is another major factor for our misery as we want to live "a few weeks more" at the cost of bankrupcy of our families and snatching medical resources from others who might have better shot at life. I am trying to accept the ultimate reality that no matter what, we will have to cease to exist..sooner or later. This is God's ultimate Rule for all. But ,it is so hard to accept.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to LearnAll

I would love to respond in full to this post but it would not lead to a productive discussions.

I will state that I mostly agree with LearnAll's assertions.

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to LearnAll

we gotta go.....or stop reproducing ?

cesces
cesces in reply to maley2711

Falling sperm counts 'threaten human survival', expert warns

Now, Swan says, following current projections, the median sperm count is set to reach zero in 2045. “That’s a little concerning, to say the least,” she told Axios.

In the book, Swan and co-author Stacey Colino explore how modern life is threatening sperm counts, changing male and female reproductive development and endangering human life.

It points to lifestyle and chemical exposures that are changing and threatening human sexual development and fertility. Such is the gravity of the threats they pose, she argues, that humans could become an endangered species.

“Of five possible criteria for what makes a species endangered,” Swan writes, “only one needs to be met; the current state of affairs for humans meets at least three.”

Swan offers advice on how to protect themselves from damaging chemicals and urges people to “do what we can to safeguard our fertility, the fate of mankind, and the planet”.

Between 1964 and 2018 the global fertility rate fell from 5.06 births per woman to 2.4. Now approximately half the world’s countries have fertility rates below 2.1, the population replacement level.

While contraception, cultural shifts and the cost of having children are likely to be contributing factors, Swan warns of indicators that suggest there are also biological reasons – including increasing miscarriage rates, more genital abnormalities among boys and earlier puberty for girls.

Swan blames “everywhere chemicals”, found in plastics, cosmetics and pesticides, that affect endocrines such as phthalates and bisphenol-A.

Https://theguardian.com/us-news/202...

noahware
noahware in reply to cesces

" modern life is threatening sperm counts"

Perhaps so, but I disagree that this represents a genuine threat to the survival of the species. I expect medical science will perfect the reality of fertilizing eggs without a need for any contribution from the male of the species whatsoever.

And that might be the best bet for "man's" long term survival: eliminate the reproductive need for males and then the males themselves, who are, after all, most greatly responsible for many of the things (like nuclear warheads, unconstrained environmental exploitation, etc.) that threaten the species.

[I assume this is a dystopian science fiction book that has already been written.]

cesces
cesces in reply to noahware

Actually her analysis is much deeper and she touches on an exhaustive number of potential factors in her work on the subject of human fecundity.

Including economic, cultural and climactic change.

For instance her work mentions worldwide rural to city migration as a factor.

noahware
noahware in reply to cesces

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to dismiss these as "not real" in terms of being genuine threats. Just saying I see them as threats to "life as we know it" rather than as EXISTENTIAL threats to life itself, or even to human life. (And to repeat, most of the threats are "man-made" as in created by the male of the species, and not by women. I am sincere, but of course not serious, when I suggest the species has a better chance of thriving for a longer time if most [non-robot]males of the species somehow become extinct. We are no longer needed!)

If I'm not mistaken, the first billion or so years of life on this planet survived in an atmosphere largely without oxygen, with life producing the oxygen that probably caused our first "mass extinction event" and then probably helping cause ice ages, with more extinctions subsequently ushering in massive numbers of new species. So if life can get on for a few billion years of THAT nonsense, it can surely get on with a few centuries of climate change. But "life as we know it?" Not so much.

cesces
cesces in reply to noahware

Agreed

cesces
cesces in reply to noahware

Actually an xy set of chromosomes might work better than an xx.

tom67inMA
tom67inMA in reply to LearnAll

My wife have had a number of discussions about this. We've both accepted that she's very likely to outlive me (which was not our original plan, as I'm supposed to be the "healthy one"). I don't want to bankrupt her if treatment isn't covered by insurance. She's looking at the situation as an opportunity for her personal growth, and will become a more capable person as a result.

I think Alex Trebeck is a great example of how to live and die with cancer. Last summer in an interview he said his current treatment was working, but when it stopped working he wouldn't seek any further treatments. It seems like the psychological effects of treatment hit him very odd. By refusing further treatment, he was able to spend his last days at home with his wife and in relative comfort.

cesces
cesces in reply to tom67inMA

Treatment is not always so fun.

At some point quality of life becomes more important.

One reason to use testosterone therapy as a last tier treatment.

LearnAll
LearnAll in reply to tom67inMA

One good thing about PCa is that it keeps our mind and its capacity for logical thinking until the last day as exemplified by our fellow members who post messages while in hospice care and those messages make perfect sense. When to choose a treatment, when to choose which treatment and when to choose no treatment is what we need to do.. and fortunately PCa does not affect our mind until the end.

dhccpa
dhccpa in reply to LearnAll

And it's usually what the other guy does or likes that is immoral, not the person making the observation.

I have known so many men who do this, often egged on by loved ones who see it as the only way they can help. As with most things, there is a better middle ground. I hate seeing sick people deprive themselves of simple pleasures - and all without any scientific justification.

Kaliber
Kaliber in reply to Tall_Allen

Ok ... I’ll just back this off ....and cut back on the caffeine 👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Kaliber

Kaliber you are the best but what the heck did you just post? 😆

Kaliber
Kaliber in reply to Hidden

👍👍❤️❤️

Something to be aware of, but as long as you you don't compromise the health of the rest of your body by eating healthily for cancer, or become obsessive about it, I don't see a big problem.

"Who the heck is Swan"

Yep

Let's fire all these scientists, and replace them with alternative narratives that make us feel better about our poor life choices, mistakes, and belief systems.

What could possibly go wrong with that.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

I didn't know Swan is the voice for all "scientists".

Again, who the heck is Swan and why do I care?

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to Hidden

Maybe instead of trying to best cesces in this back and forth, you could have Googled Swan instead? I guess there is some sort of long-term distaste for each other's comments/beliefs...as though someone will win this contest? anyway, provides a humorous interruption of an orderly and respectful conversation by other folks here.

What is an obsession called when one cannot stop eating foods that are not giving optimum nutrition despite having a sick body that certainly is in need of nutritious foods? Why should not a cancer patient, if he/she so chooses 'without being egged on by loved ones who have not other way of helping', enjoy preparing and making healthy foods? Why attach guilt or disorder to it? For those who seek comfort in other types foods, to each their own. Eating healthy foods should not be called an obsession, but a habit - perhaps even a good (unharmful) habit.

noahware
noahware in reply to spw1

I think it is only a "disorder" if the obsession with healthy eating leads to either a sub-optimal physical state or to increased stress/anxiety.

Anecdotally, when I lost forty pounds on a CR keto diet, not a single person besides me (and my primary care doc, bless him!) thought I was doing the right thing. They were all worried I was "too skinny." I just laughed. Yes, I lost a little muscle mass along with the fat, but I had more energy, vitality and optimism that I'd had for years. I happened to KNOW that I was healthier, and at my "correct" weight and waistline, in spite of popular opinion preferring the chunkier version that I had been from age 30 to age 60.

And oh yeah... my PSA went from 20 to 13.

spw1
spw1 in reply to noahware

My husband made changes to his diet after his diagnosis. From organic eggs and organic poultry etc. he went to vegan with organic and where possible home grown vegetables and the more he ate whole foods plant based diet, the better he got. Pain in the hip went away. Everyday he adds more exercise to his regime and although slimmer than before, he has more energy than before his diagnosis. Muscle loss from ADT is inevitable but we, like Treedown, make delicious foods and thoroughly enjoy the preparation and cooking. If you asked him, he is not feeling nagged by me to do the changes.

cesces
cesces in reply to spw1

Certainly some changes are deserved. Others are so low risk, why not.

All they say: "To avoid this, dietary changes should be approached carefully."

If you find yourself doing fringe things that your Doc rolls his eyes at. Then maybe it's worth reconsidering.

That's all.

Hidden
Hidden

I wasn't and I don't.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

"... why do I care?" Xpo1

I don't know. Why do you care so much to express your opinion on it?

I assumed because you believe that either I or someone else is interested in your opinion on this subject.

Most probably if you have no substantive contribution to the subject, the respectful thing to do is to refrain.

Then again, if you like to read your own non-substantive content. Go for it.

Thank you

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

If your are going cut/paste an article that quotes a particular person over and over I believe you have an obligation to inform the reader who the person is and why what the person is stating has significance.

You never do. You post this dribble and frankly its just worthless. IMHO

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

" I believe you have an obligation to inform the reader who the person is and why what the person is stating has significance."

As with most posters here, I am entitled to assume, if you made it here you have a rudimentary understanding of how the internet works.

Swan is a famous epidemiologist, affiliated with a famous medical center of excellence. And the article is about her most recently published peer reviewed paper.

Temporal trends in sperm count: a systematic review and meta-regression analysis | Human Reproduction Update | Oxford Academic

Https://academic.oup.com/humupd/article/23/6/646/4035689

PS: Where on the internet might I find information about the world shattering work you have done in the field of Machine Learning xpo1? LOL

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

No you're not entitled. But I do believe you think you're entitled.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Xpo1

Evidence of any machine learning expertise please.

Even a scrap of evidence.

Thank you

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

This site is about PCA isn't it?

Why would I post any of my work here on machine learning here?

And because of customer contractual requirements, I would need to get approval to discuss anything on the internet related to my work.

But I am starting on a personal project that I will gladly provide details in due time on machine learning applied to options trading.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Oh foolish me. Of course.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

That's the quality of you we all come to expect.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

And since we are requesting published work, where is yours?

Even a scrap of crap would suffice.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

I don't recollect mentioning my published work, let alone name dropping it on a prostate cancer site.

But if so, can you direct me to where I might have inadvertently done so.

Thank you

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Sorry I can't produce what doesn't exist.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

My working conjecture was that it didn't exist.

That's why I asked.

Of course normally I would pay little attention to you.

But when you initiate an exchange... well I guess it is one of my guilty pleasures to respond in kind.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

You are making zero sense...but that is your thing.

You asked me to publish my work and I can't right now because I would need to get the customer of the contract I'm currently working on to approve such dissemination.

However, I am embarking on a personal project utilizing similar tools but different methods that I would gladly share with anyone interested.

Getting back to my request. Where is your published work?

That was where I left it. Are you following now?

Why don't you start by filling out your bio? Some details about your pathology. Treatments to date, etc would help people on this site more than this dribble you post.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Got it.

You are recent to the field.

Working on high end secret work so cutting edge you can't describe it.

Probably why they choose a newbie with no history.

Again. Foolish me.

Hey, don't you folks have some sort of electronic challenge coin or something?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Well your ignorance is on full display but that is nothing new.

Anything I make public about my work must be reviewed by the customer. That includes my resume and since I haven't been looking for work for nearly 20 years that is way out of date.

But getting back to you...where is your published work?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

I will give you this. I am currently working with elasticsearch utilizing 6 data nodes and 2 machine learning nodes at the moment. The machine learning is based bayesian probability models. We are collecting network data and development ml jobs to detect intrusions among other anomalies.

That's about as much I willing to share on this site.

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to Hidden

If I read you correctly... Your job is repairing holes in returned blow up dolls..... (and I will admit I've caused a few of those returns myself - with and without my gourd)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 02/28/2021 3:46 PM EST

Hidden
Hidden in reply to j-o-h-n

Can't get anything past you.I knew you were responsible for the pinhead size holes.

A man and his gourd can only spell trouble..with a J or a G.

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to Hidden

A Pin head is better than a Spin head..... Gealousy - Greek spelling (ζήλια zília)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 02/28/2021 3:58 PM EST

I lost some weight steadily the 8-10 months after dx and was surprised to see a note on final report by RO he did not think I was anorexic. Lucky me. I can say for me a dietary change was not a bad thing after dx given all the ailments it cured, highish cholesterol, back pain, thrombosis, and more. There's also the slight chance my previous food choices played a role in my PC. However, in no way would I deprive myself of delicious, comfortable food. I just keep getting better at making vegetables fill those roles. I also learned how easy dropping weight can be by cutting down on carbs for periods of times, and how can cutting shit food out be bad? It seams weight loss is what this specific disorder is about. Whats the name of the disorder for gaining 50 pounds on ADT.

I'm from the government, drop your drawers.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to monte1111

j-o-h-n..is that you?

Always trying to get in my pants.

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to Hidden

Please: Waist size? Length? Material? Belt or Garter? Color? Zipper or Buttons? Cuffs or No Cuffs? Condition? Price?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 02/27/2021 7:15 PM EST

Sperm counts? A sperm bank is the only bank where you make a deposit and lose interest.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 02/27/2021 7:30 PM EST

typo?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to maley2711

Nope. You put me to sleep just like your buddy cesces. You two came from the same pod.

Peace ✌

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Yet he keeps responding.

The definitiom of passive aggressive is: weak and vicious.

Do you think the following fits that definition or not.

"Nope. You put me to sleep just like your buddy cesces. You two came from the same pod. Peace ✌"

LOL

Ps: xpo1, I know you know how to use private messaging for your off topic diatribes. You are welcome to take them to PM. Please accept my invitation.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Nope...this is more fun. And you can't hide your true self.

I'm just passing time as I get ready to head to the gym. You know, that place where exercise equipment is kept for the paying members to use.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

But xpo1, you are being so inconsiderate to others by spamming these threads with your off topic hate messages.

Please send your hate messages to me in private. I promise I will return them in kind.

I wonder if there is any useful application for out of date 90s bayesian programming techniques for a gym app.

What is your professional opinion?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Nobody cares...you're the only one getting the notices.

PS...Your Bayesean comment made zero sense. But at least your are consistent.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Apparently they do care xpo1.

It's like adding convoluted unsupportable code. It impairs readability.

You're the one who doesn't care. But I guess you don't need to when the world revolves around you and your imagined wrongs.

Ps: Dated Bayesian approaches to machine learning? Is that what you are referring to?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Fine..if referring to machine learning to "dated bayesean" probability models makes you feel better then yes.

And what is it YOU actually do other than cut/paste other peoples work onto this site?

Update your profile while your at it. Why the non-transparency?

cesces
cesces in reply to maley2711

maley2711

Nah just a trumpie with anger issues who thinks the world revolves around his personal insecurities, prejudices, and politics.

He has an open invitation from me to take his off topic diatribes to my private messaging, but I think the public venting may add some meaning to what appears to be an existence consumed with hate and anger.

I guess my arrogant libtard supiority so threatens his self worth , he is compelled to act out in public. For attention I guess?

Strangely, when he fails to notice my handle, he and I have had very civil discussions here.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Labeling again...Mr maley despises labels.

And for you, apologize to that woman from several months ago and I'll leave you alone...nobody likes a political leftist bully like yourself.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

"political leftist bully like yourself" XPO1

The pot calling the kettle black?

XPO1, how about we stick to prostate cancer on the public forum.

If you want to bully me, please take your off topic spam to private messaging. Where you can get properly owned in private.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

ZzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzz

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to Hidden

Yes, why will you not takes this tit for tat to private messaging...very discourteous to others just trying to follow a respectful conversation about a post topic. at first, it is humorous.....then becomes tedious. oth of you seem to want to have the last word.....so this will never end? somewhat adolescent? what would you tell your child caught up in something like this?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to maley2711

What is your pathology?Did you ever have a needle biopsy?

What PCA treatments have you undergone?

If the answer is no to these questions, why are you posting to this site?

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Xpo1

Please take your off topic discussion to private messaging.

Thank you

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Same questions to you.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Xpo1,

PM pleaseThank you

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to Hidden

why do you care?

Hidden
Hidden in reply to maley2711

This site is for men with APCA.If you do not have PCA. It is improper for you to be on this on this site. It's disrespectful.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

"This site is for men with APCA.If you do not have PCA. It is improper for you to be on this on this site. It's disrespectful." Xpo1

You got me xpo1.

I am a green lizard man (with no prostate) in charge of qanon space lasers ordered here by cannabalistic dems to stalk the prostate challenged, with a special priority to monitor any mischief you may personally be up to.

Or, on the other hand, maybe you just need to up your ssri uptake and perhaps supplement that with an anger management course. Oh... and just chill out a little.

Just saying. LOL

See you around bro.

MAGA

Hidden
Hidden in reply to cesces

Are saying it's not? 10mg of lexapro is wonderful...don't need anymore.

You should try it...might make you more tolerable.

cesces
cesces in reply to Hidden

Thinking about ssri.

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to Hidden

why is it disrespectful........and I am trying to learn in advance for what may come and be prepared, and I do have a serious indication of serious situation!! Not just reading this because it is a fun thing to think about hell down the road! and, I have received thanks from a number of men who have liked my posts, and I have sent men to this site when they were seeking advanced PCa advice.

maley2711
maley2711 in reply to maley2711

Thanks for the compliment.

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