The Patch Trial...the verdict is in! - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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The Patch Trial...the verdict is in!

E2-Guy profile image
48 Replies

Transdermal oestradiol for androgen suppression in prostate

cancer: long-term cardiovascular outcomes from the

randomised Prostate Adenocarcinoma Transcutaneous

Hormone (PATCH) trial programme

Summary

Background Androgen suppression is a central component of prostate cancer management but causes substantial

long-term toxicity. Transdermal administration of oestradiol (tE2) circumvents first-pass hepatic metabolism and,

therefore, should avoid the cardiovascular toxicity seen with oral oestrogen and the oestrogen-depletion effects seen

with luteinising hormone releasing hormone agonists (LHRHa). We present long-term cardiovascular follow-up

data from the Prostate Adenocarcinoma Transcutaneous Hormone (PATCH) trial programme.

Methods PATCH is a seamless phase 2/3, randomised, multicentre trial programme at 52 study sites in the UK.

Men with locally advanced or metastatic prostate cancer were randomly allocated (1:2 from August, 2007 then 1:1

from February, 2011) to either LHRHa according to local practice or tE2 patches (four 100 µg patches per 24 h,

changed twice weekly, reducing to three patches twice weekly if castrate at 4 weeks [defined as testosterone

≤1·7 nmol/L]). Randomisation was done using a computer-based minimisation algorithm and was stratified by

several factors, including disease stage, age, smoking status, and family history of cardiac disease. The primary

outcome of this analysis was cardiovascular morbidity and mortality. Cardiovascular events, including heart

failure, acute coronary syndrome, thromboembolic stroke, and other thromboembolic events, were confirmed

using predefined criteria and source data. Sudden or unexpected deaths were attributed to a cardiovascular

category if a confirmatory post-mortem report was available and as other relevant events if no post-mortem report

was available. PATCH is registered with the ISRCTN registry, ISRCTN70406718; the study is ongoing and adaptive.

Findings Between Aug 14, 2007, and July 30, 2019, 1694 men were randomly allocated either LHRHa (n=790) or

tE2 patches (n=904). Overall, median follow-up was 3·9 (IQR 2·4–7·0) years. Respective castration rates at 1 month

and 3 months were 65% and 93% among patients assigned LHRHa and 83% and 93% among those allocated tE2.

157 events from 145 men met predefined cardiovascular criteria, with a further ten sudden deaths with no postmortem report (total 167 events in 153 men). 26 (2%) of 1694 patients had fatal cardiovascular events, 15 (2%) of

790 assigned LHRHa and 11 (1%) of 904 allocated tE2. The time to first cardiovascular event did not differ between

treatments (hazard ratio 1·11, 95% CI 0·80–1·53; p=0·54 [including sudden deaths without post-mortem report];

1·20, 0·86–1·68; p=0·29 [confirmed group only]). 30 (34%) of 89 cardiovascular events in patients assigned

tE2 occurred more than 3 months after tE2 was stopped or changed to LHRHa. The most frequent adverse events

were gynaecomastia (all grades), with 279 (38%) events in 730 patients who received LHRHa versus 690 (86%) in

807 patients who received tE2 (p<0·0001) and hot flushes (all grades) in 628 (86%) of those who received LHRHa

versus 280 (35%) who received tE2 (p<0·0001).

Interpretation Long-term data comparing tE2 patches with LHRHa show no evidence of a difference between

treatments in cardiovascular mortality or morbidity. Oestrogens administered transdermally should be reconsidered

for androgen suppression in the management of prostate cancer.

Funding Cancer Research UK, and Medical Research Council Clinical Trials Unit at University College London.

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E2-Guy
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48 Replies
Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

Thanks ronronHU, but that's almost impossible to read. I think, it is much easier to click on a link:

thelancet.com/journals/lanc...

The key finding so far (4 years) is that estrogen and LHRH agonists (e.g., Lupron, Eligard, Triptorelin, Zoladex, etc.) had similar rates of cardiovascular events. They also had similar testosterone suppression. Gynecomastia was much higher with estrogen, but hot flashes were much fewer.

The really important outcomes, metastasis free survival and overall survival will take many more years. It will also be interesting to see if time to castration resistance is the same.

Horse12888 profile image
Horse12888 in reply to Tall_Allen

The reduction in hot flashes is really good news, but it's only one component of the QoL issues associated with LHRH agonists/antagonists. What about fatigue, depression, aches, ED/no libido, brain fog, and emotional lability?

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to Horse12888

I am repeating what I have been saying for the last 33 months! My ONLY side effect from the tE2 regimen is some gynecomastia, (little boobs).

Horse12888 profile image
Horse12888 in reply to E2-Guy

That's great. Richard Wassersug says the same. I would be interested in a statistically valid sample, however.

In any case, this is wonderful news.

Tall Allen points out that we don't yet know about long-term efficacy or the rate/timing of castrate resistance, which is true. Speaking for myself, however, I don't care; if it's anywhere close to equivalent, I'll take the higher QoL every day of the week.

Allen is also right about man-boobs; it's unclear what percentage of men are bothered by them. I'm 65, married, paunchy, and sexless, so I'm not too concerned personally.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to Horse12888

I don't find the boobs to be a big deal...I joke about mine!

noahware profile image
noahware in reply to Horse12888

The linked article above is focusing mainly on the CV issue, but there are MANY other articles going back a few decades linking low estrogen to much more than hot flashes. (Bone density is the biggie, but metabolic and mood changes can be estrogen-mediated, too.)

How do we know what SEs are more low-T-related or more low-E-related? This list is not exhaustive, but gives some indication:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply to Tall_Allen

TA

QOL in my opinion is just as important or more important than MFS and OS . Why agonize for years on LhRHA waiting for the so called “most important” scientific results? The PATCH trial is good enough for me.

Bob

Shooter1 profile image
Shooter1

Looks like a choice between man boobs or hot flashes and most everything else equal....

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to Shooter1

I think the boobs are a small price to pay to keep the PCa at bay!

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to E2-Guy

Well, both keep PCa at bay (as far as we can tell at this early date. There is no long term data on estrogen. Richard and I had an interesting discussion about gynecomastia. The question is - how many men are distressed by man-boobs?

Other open questions include:

•Will estrogen patches increase metastasis-free and overall survival? How will it effect castration resistance?

•will tamoxifen help with estrogen-induced gynecomastia? will it interfere with the estrogen PC therapy?

• why not add a low-dose estrogen patch to LHRH agonists, which helps with hot flashes? Can tamoxifen then be used? Is the combinationof LHRH agonist and estrogen better for PC than either alone?

PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias in reply to Tall_Allen

Good points. According to the literature a minimum of 11 pg/ml of estradiol is needed to prevent osteoprosis (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/286.... Patrick and Nalakrats recommend 15 - 25 pg/ml for maintenance. About 40 pg/ml estradiol in the blood is needed to prevent hot flushes (same reference), but I suspect that at this dosage that T will also be suppressed. If one is taking an LHRH agonist, then taking E2 may make the LHRH agonist redundant. Nevertheless there is some evidence that estradiol may suppress the growth of CRPCa cells (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/205..., so perhaps estradiol may be better overall if prevention of osteoporosis and hot flushes are considered. Finally, using E2 with an LHRH agonist is called "add-back" - that is the replacement of missing E2 due to very low T (which may also be sufficient to suppress T). More information is needed to determine whether the combined use of E2 and LHRH agonist is more beneficial than E2 alone. Cheers, Phil

Mascouche profile image
Mascouche in reply to Shooter1

If the patches protect us from osteoporosis instead of causing it like ADT, then it is not equal but superior in that aspect.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to Mascouche

A low-dose estradiol [E2] patch, sufficient to bring E2 up to ~20 pgmL, would solve the bone loss issue for many on regular ADT.

-Patrick

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Mascouche

But do you need it instead of or in addition to?

Mascouche profile image
Mascouche in reply to Tall_Allen

My understanding is that if it is as a therapy, then it is high dose and instead of ADT. But if it is as protection of bones and side-effects than it is a low dose in addition to ADT.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Mascouche

Yes, but what I'm asking is, which is preferred? There are advantages, disadvantages and many unknowns to either.

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply to Tall_Allen

As far as I am concerned there is no comparison! After switching from trelstar , dutasteride, metformin , and stopping xgeva , I’ve been on three .1 mg patches per week for two years with no recurrence, no cardiac or bone problems, no hot flashes; just man boobs which I’m reducing with weight training and cardio. I had my 77th birthday in January and going strong. On a semi related subject, I’m having sling surgery on Monday for stress incontinence attributable to all my treatments! See profile.

Bob

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to Break60

Bob,

Happy belated B'day wishes! Thanks for the update. Please keep us apprised regarding the "sling surgery".

My best,

Ron

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply to E2-Guy

Thanks Ron , I certainly will!

Bob

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to Break60

Would the patch work after agonists LHRH stopped working or would it render the patch ineffective as well, at that point?

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply to GeorgeGlass

George

I’m not sure because I was never in that situation. I’ve always been hormone sensitive. I rather doubt it though .

Bob

noahware profile image
noahware in reply to Shooter1

There are a lot more side effects possibly related to estrogen loss from ADT than just hot flashes (reduced bone density being the biggest, perhaps, but others could include brain fog, weight gain, insulin resistance, etc.).

Tamoxifen can prevent man-boobs, but the long-term safety of that drug is unclear.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to noahware

The only side effect (that I am aware of) is the boobs, and they have reached a point where they have stopped growing. I only wear loose-fitting, button-down short sleeve style shirts and no one knows that I have boobs unless I joke about them. I am not embarrassed to tell my friends that I am controlling my PCa at the 'expense' of growing little boobies! I thank God every day that I'm coming up on my 78th b'day after having PCa for (according to my urologist) "at least 20 years."

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach in reply to E2-Guy

Happy Birthday 🎂 thanks for being here and your participation. I’m an E2 advocate and user too.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to MateoBeach

Thank you for the 'pre' b'day wish! Hope your doing well with the tE2.

lancer82801 profile image
lancer82801 in reply to E2-Guy

Thank you for the update. I also am on tE2 and have been since Sept 2020. All is doing well and the man boobs are not anything that bothers me. Happy Birthday and hope all is well where you are

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to lancer82801

Thank you for your reply and the b'day wish! My best to you in this journey.

Ron

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to E2-Guy

Would the patch work after agonists LHRH stopped working or would it render the patch ineffective as well, at that point?

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to GeorgeGlass

George, I don't have the answer to your question; however, I have read a few articles that 'stated' that DES (oral estrogen) was sometimes effective after other forms of ADT ceased working. Perhaps Richard Wassersug and Tall_Allen can shed some light on this subject?

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to E2-Guy

OK thanks Ron. Are you in Phuket area? I've been over to Thailand about five times. Great place if you know where to go.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to GeorgeGlass

I am in Chonburi on the gulf, about an hour south of Bangkok.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to E2-Guy

Great. I used to have a girlfriend from there. Should have married her but I focused on work in the USA too much.

clayfin profile image
clayfin in reply to E2-Guy

Is it real gynecomastia? Do you have the hard glands etc?

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to clayfin

Yes!

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

Just click on it- I provided it.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to Tall_Allen

Thank you Allen!

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa

Sounds like the answer!

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach

E2=good. Question-Hmmm..boobs or hot flashes? Answer Tamoxifen. Thanks.

novatimo profile image
novatimo

To counter the SE of 'man-boobs' aren't these also helpful...? Gabapentin, Megace patch, Cabergoline (reduces prolactin).

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to novatimo

Tall_Allen had suggested that I take Tamoxifen a couple of years ago; however, my concern is: If a drug counteracts a side effect of E2, i.e., boobs, is there the possibility that it can also interfere with the efficacy of the E2 hormone?

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

I registered for the NYC wet t-shirt contest....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 02/13/2021 7:25 PM EST

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to j-o-h-n

I won in a recent one here in Thailand!

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass

a lot of guys on here are talking about the E patch but when I ask doctors about it, they get googly eyed and have to think hard to formulate a response, something like, that's outdated thinking or something along those lines.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to GeorgeGlass

Small money for them if you are on tE2.

petercraig2 profile image
petercraig2

Great news.My Oncologist has been waiting for this however I am wondering if this is final PATCH report or interim.

Outcome of PATCH Trial may mean a strong case to OHIP in Ontario for inclursion formulary and for paid prescription.

Peter

I did estrogen ADT in 2019. Worked great. I dreaded Lupron and every doctor I interviewed wanted me to do Lupron. 100% of them (4/4) said that estrogen would not work to get my testosterone to castrate levels.High school biology told me otherwise. T undetectable after 6 weeks.

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy in reply to

Are you still on E2?

in reply to E2-Guy

No. I did it for 5 months. Then switched to casodex/dutasteride for a month. Then started high testosterone - been on that for the last 18 months.

In retrospect, the estrogen ADT was a leadin for the high T (SPT). Casodex/Dutasteride might have helped but it was really just a failed experiment.

I told my MO about the SPT after I'd been on it for 9 months (I chickened out telling her at first). Now she is quite happy with my progress (very little evidence of cancer but Mayo predictions 3 months prior to my starting estrogen ADT were 3 months max before an aggressive return). My current MO just smiles and tells me to keep doing what I'm doing. For the last 6 months, she doesn't want to see me other than to chat. She's very happy with how things are going for me. I am too. Kept this thing at bay for a little more than 2 extra years and counting.

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