31 month transdermal estradiol (tE2) update

[E2-Guy]

Not sure why my T has gone up to 223 from 23 and my E2 has gone down to 56 from 146 in the last six months? My E2 gel usage has stayed the same. Perhaps Richard Wassersug or Tall_Allen may have some input. Still no side effects other than the boobs! No complaints...many of the poorly endowed girls here in Thailand are envious!

[LearnAll]

Lab Error ??? Fake E 2 Gel ???

[E2-Guy in reply to LearnAll]

I seriously doubt that my PSA would be 0.009 with "fake E2 gel". "Lab error" perhaps? I have been using only Besin's gel since I started.

[LearnAll in reply to E2-Guy]

Repeat Blood Test.. please.

[LowT in reply to LearnAll]

Repeat test.

Product expiration date??LH?

FSH?

DHT?

[LearnAll in reply to LowT]

Yes....DHT.(dehydrotestosterone ) in particular....its the major driver of cancer growth.

[MateoBeach in reply to LearnAll]

Used to think so too, but now not sure. Both with SPT, as discussed in some Recent threads, and also in relation to estrogen receptor effects. I have only decided that I do not know when and how DHT is detrimental or not.

[E2-Guy in reply to LowT]

1/2022

[Tall_Allen]

I don't know if it's relevant, but my friend was trying to restore his T with a transdermal. It worked for a while, but then he found that he couldn't raise it with a transdermal. If your serum E2 is no longer as elevated as it once was, perhaps your transdermal vehicle isn't carrying enough E2 through your skin. Maybe try a different vehicle prepared by a compounding pharmacy. Maybe you can experiment with different vehicles until you find one that works for you. (I'd hate to see you risk pills).

Did you look at SHBG levels? E2 raises SHBG, which complexes both T and E2. If your SHBG is high, it may be that your free T remains adequately low in spite of your higher T.

[E2-Guy in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you Allen for your (as always) detailed answer!

[j-o-h-n in reply to E2-Guy]

I challenge you to a Tits Off....... (I'll even spot you cold nipple weather).....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 11/27/2020 1:52 PM EST

[E2-Guy in reply to j-o-h-n]

Would be an interesting contest...haha!

[MateoBeach in reply to j-o-h-n]

Oh! The man bras have come off. Do it

[Wassersug]

Hello Ron (et al.),

Sorry of not replying earlier to your posting on tE2 . My email was down for a day and I'm just now catching up.

I only track this chat list intermittently, but I do try to respond when queried by name.

Because of the way the gonadal hormones can regulate their own receptor density, a stable daily dose of tE2 will not necessarily lead to a stable serum concentration. Since your E2 is low right now and T is high, my suggestions is to just up the amount of estrogel you are using for a few days.

I see guys, who are using tE2 for ADT, struggle to get a stable serum level. If they are using patches, they come up with complex patch rotation schedules. My impression is that it is both a futile exercise and probably neither necessary nor effective.

In women, E2 fluctuates greatly as part of the normal menstrual cycle. I know of no clinical research to show that androgen suppression is better maintained in men with PCa when E2 dose is allowed to similarly fluctuate. But for myself, I just put on a bit more estrogel, if my T is climbing and and a bit less, if my E2 is getting high.

A few years ago, I ran a correlation between how much E2 I was using and my E2 serum levels. That was based on more than 40 blood samples spread out over more than a decade. The serum concentration of E2 fluctuated all over the place, but my T stayed low and I have had good PSA control for approximately 20 years. So I now just apply a bit more or a bit less E2 as the days and weeks go by. However, I don't let the serum E2 get above the upper limit of normal for females before menopause. I hold that as ceiling as I don't want to up my odds of blood clot formation.

And that imprecision seems to work fine for me.

Now onto required qualifying statements:

1. I'm not an MD, so these are just my personal opinions.

2. Using tE2 for PSA control is an off-label use and, as such, I don't necessarily promote it. We don't, for example, promote it in the ADT book nor in the free ADT classes. [See: LIFEonADT.com]

3. Taking E2, if one has estrogen sensitive PCa, is not a good idea.

If anyone,, who has read this long posting, wants to discuss this further I invite them to contact me directly and we can arrange a time to chat. I prefer talking to typing as I am not an fast or efficient typist.

Richard W.

[E2-Guy in reply to Wassersug]

Thank you so much Richard for taking the time to write such a detailed reply!

[Alicat1]

Keep up the fight Ron. All the best.