While not about PC directly there are really smart people on this site and the virus affects us, I am looking for some wisdom with these thoughts about protecting from the virus I send this to two PC sites.
I start with this, a guy goes to the Doctor, says Doc it hurts when I touch here Doc says don’t touch there.
All articles say do not touch your face to prevent infection, first question for you I have is how much of virus spread is caused by face touching, my reason for this is if a significant amount then we should all put much greater emphasis on avoiding touching the face again if indeed it is a factor.
I have researched a lot on mouth masks and transmissions could not find anything that states what percentage of transmission is caused by self touching. NIH has articles about airports and hand washing very interesting, also some articles say mouth/nose masks do work this varies.
First I never bought into much, never took a flu shot I looked at people that wore those white face masks as silly, likely changing.
I think we have been misled a bit because of shortages of masks they do not want the public to hoard, I think they brainwashed us a bit putting out articles that masks don’t really work unless you have the virus so we don’t buy them. In my reading these masks do work somewhat especially the better ones n95 etc. But even homemade type.
So the purpose of this is to suggest that if touching your face causes spread then collectively much more emphasis should be done to stop it.
The presumption for this is your home is virus free and if you keep your hands clean then touching your face there is not the issue. However when you go out then protect, it seems to me if you wear a full plastic face mask then combine it with a mouth nose mask or until masks available a bandana or?
Make it tough create a physical reminder to keep you from touching your face.
Take a full plastic face mask and attach at the bottom of this mask a cloth or another plastic mask for the sole purpose of making it tougher to touch your face it would hang down at the bottom like the attachment on a hockey or catchers mask.
So my thought they tell us not to touch our face so when you are out make it inconvenient to touch because you have to move a second bottom mask or cloth this would be a large reminder not to reach up and touch yourself because it is an effort. Combine a front plastic mask with something that covers nose mouth has value it is incredible how many times we touch our face.
Now if anyone has a guess on how much of self touching contamination causes spread, what can we do to stop touching ( sandpaper gloves with tacks in them ) please give some thoughts, this just seems a common sense thing all of us can do, some reminder not to touch your face, a physical reminder.
I am sure there are many great ideas please share I think the above is simple.
As MC Hammer said “you can’t touch this”
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Canuck53
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The big problem is droplets from a cough or sneeze. These can be very small & numerous. Obviously, breathing them takes the virus into one's lungs.
The droplets land wherever & pose a threat for about 4 days if they land on a hard surface - or a plastic bag, say. I find that the NY Times delivery bag is great when cleaning the cat litter trays. Just the right size & strength. But if the carrier has sneezed in the car, I may be bringing the virus into the house.
My point is for the ones that land on a surface it seems we must then transfer those types to our face, no transmission to face no problem, what is the best way to prevent and remind us not to transmit.
Secondly the newsfeed of people who work with this virus most have a plastic mask and a mouth nose mask obviously they work, my thought is if there were enough of these masks and everyone who went out wore both masks it would seriously affect the spread.
Doctors at UCSF are saying that the active droplets from a coronavirus cough or sneeze can stay suspended in the air for up to three hours. Meaning you can walk into a space where an infected person was an hour ago and inhale the virus. That being so, mask would be vital for everyone. It’s one of the reasons it spreads so easily.
Sometimes it is a good thing to inhale a very small number of Coronaviruses esp in people who have strong immune system. A SubClinical dose of virus activates immune system and as a result the person becomes immune to that virus. Just like having a vaccine. It is called HERD immunity/....meaning inadvertently inhaled a very small dose leading to a lot of people developing immunity. However, in practice, this has no use as we do not know peoples level of immunity.
I just read a coronavirus report that said that many people recovered from the virus are easily reinfected by the virus. A major problem experienced in China. That , unlike many other virus infections, infection by coronavirus only builds up a minimal amount of antibodies in a lot of people. It’s the main reason that the old one for two virus cure wasn’t used to fight it.
In earlier times before vaccines, the blood of one cured infected person was given to up to two other persons ( dunno why only two ) and that provided the antibodies needed for resistance to that virus. This was tried early on with Coronavirus with only minimal success.
Some medical sources are saying up to a year to develop a vaccine being the only way to fully stop it ... but if the above is actually true ... how do they expect a vaccine to stop it unless that vaccine is way more powerful ? I’ve sat in on several medical center conference calls in the last few days discussing this and it seems scary / iffy to me. Some locations in China where the virus has been held in check are being reinfected by people coming in from the outside causing a wave infection effect , that a vaccine is their best resolution. A vaccine is possible in 12 months or somewhat less, supposedly. If you consider all this, it at least partially explains the “ extreme “ actions being taken by Kaiser, Stanford , UCSF Med and all the rest.
I suspect when enough test kits are finally delivered to the field to test the general population .... some minds will be blown to discover how widely the virus has already spread. It’s a mess and already crashing our economy in the process. Yikes ....
I read that the reinfection rate is disputable . They were not able to tell if the people were still carrying or were reinfected. I believe a study in maque monkeys showed they were not able to get reinfected, but that is not to say in years they can't as is true with other coronavirus.
I’m only parroting content I heard while sitting in on state wide and national hospital coronavirus conference calls. As a retired biomedical engineer myself and due to association thru my wife that works for UCSF Medical Center in S.F. I was privileged to be able to listen in. Most of the content of those conferences is basically intended for industry ears and definitely not public consumption.
I’d say that there is a vast amount of information yet unknown and much that is known but not sorted out or fully understood yet. And even within that a great deal of variables that need to be sorted out. There is however quite a “ known “ body of information already being processed that comes from direct experience with cases already being treated here in the USA plus vaccine research.
The reinfection issue seems to be very complex and directly involved with the amount of antibodies developed by different types of infected patients among other things. For example there are numerous factors surfacing related to the amount and viability of developed antibodies. One variable that looks to be relevant is age groups , sex another and around a half dozen more thought to apply. Seemingly there are a tiny number of what seems like almost Spontaneous reinfections But those few trigger new contact lines that , like the initial sequence... quickly spreads . Then even when there is a full local containment ... people from outside come in and start it all over agin ... they are calling it a wave effect. Boy do we need a vaccine...
Hopefully everything will get under control pretty soon ...
WOW! TY FOR THE INFO. frightening for sure... I don't even know where to look for real info as of now bc as you mentioned not for public consumption. Keep up the Intel! I truly have faith because of government interest in protecting our military that there will be a vaccine in a year or so . But who will have access is the shadier question.
I apologize if this is a dumb question, as my dad like many of you has testosterone levels near zero, does estrogen dominate? I know we are seeing estrogen plays a protective role, but my question is that in response to low testosterone does estrogen increase or merely stay close to a median of a man's estrogen level?
I know they think the virus can stay air bound but if everyone must wear double masks the sneeze is in the nose mouth mask even handmade or medical quality mask so not as much in the air, secondly if you walk through air bound virus a medical mask would somewhat protect your nose mouth from getting it.
Absolutely right ... a N95 grade mask, worn in public would provide great protection. Not perfect but REAL good protection. Of course obtaining one of those is nearly impossible right now ( I have a couple I wear ) but millions are in the pipeline. Soon as all the medical people get replenished, us civilians will be able to get some too. That would help quite a bit.
I am a bit of a libertarian don’t like government dictating much to me but I think it should be law we wear masks out in public of course they have to make them.
I think if Ford in ww2 could turn out airplanes in such a quick time industry could manufacture millions and millions of masks weekly.
This stay at home is what we have to do now but it will not be sustainable for a year everyone will be broke and the personal costs too much. Once the curve flattens then I believe by double masking just like the doctors and nurses we may get back to some normal. Doctors can do their job wearing protection then I think most jobs can carry on using similar methods.
What’s funny is that I made the exact analogy earlier today. I said that in WWII we were turning out airplanes and bombs on a daily basis ...why can’t the most powerful industrialized nation on the planet make enough masks and ventilators ? Yayahahahaya great minds think alike. On tonight’s news it looks like industry is finally cranking up to start meeting such serious needs and it can’t be too soon. We need tests for the general public as well ... then a very powerful vaccine.
I live in California which has been totally been shut down ... the economic damage is already monumental and only going to get worse. Every business in the state has been shut down except for key services. Fortunately for me, l live smack dab in the middle of where about 80% of all the food for the nation is grown and produced. Plenty of food here , except for some items like toilet paper, bottled water etc. ... the stores are well stocked. Lots of mountain snow melt water here too. But it’s scary thinking of how super densely populated metropolitan areas like NYC and S.F. Are going to be able to cope with even just the basics .
We need some answers as quick as possible .... decades of economic development could be wiped clean off the map. It’s brain numbing ...
All the small business owners here have boarded up their shops and are standing in a long line to jump off the tallest bridge in town ... ....... first , they are ignoring the stay off the streets orders .... and ..... I’m pretty sure they aren’t following the stay 6’ apart orders too .... go figure ....🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Agreed I believe we need to be quarentined until such measures bc readily available. If the masks did nothing. They would not be wearing on the front lines. How to make a make shift mask to address face touching and keep air droplets out that I never looked up to know. Someone who knows the n,95 mask better might be able to concoct something but within a month or two we will have masks I believe. The regulations made and discouragement is bc we need Frontline workers to be masked to help us and to protect them..not bc they don't help at all. Total agreement.
Face touching ....maybe modifying behavior with negative reinforcement slap on hand a pinch ...idk...I touch my face slot esp with allergy season. I'm trying to figure that out myself for my dad mostly
My dad who I have been very worried about is finally wearing rubber gloves and if we are out of gloves.. screw it wear those for workers or dish washing . When packages are delivered virus stays 24 hours on cardboard use gloves and leave packaging outside. And wash hands . All new products 3 day rule if extra cautious and if massive face toucher.
Precaution not panic...you guys are totally awesome!!!
The thing is, gloves don't help. The virus doesn't permeate the skin. If you touch something on which there is COVID 19 with the gloves on and then touch your face, it's no different than doing the same without gloves. Just wash hands often or use hand sanitiser and try to remember not to touch your face.
I agree if you touch your face with a glove it is the same as hand. When you are at home assuming it is virus proof then hand washing is great alone.
It’s when you are out, again I say the clear plastic face mast to remind you don’t touch your face then add something on to make it inconvenient to touch as a reminder only.
They are going to spend trillions but why only spend billions on reusable medical grade n95 masks and face shields.
Let the medical teams use the throw away ones.
Get everyone back to work quickly making it mandatory to wear masks, the confidence sitting across from someone who is double masked will get people out again.
Obvious the medical system first must be equipped but then pharmacies, grocery clerks should be given masks, then the public, I believe using masks we can get back to work in a month or two but only if they produce them.
I like to wear the surgical gloves just like all the medical professionals do ( if the TV stars do it, then I can too ) ... you are right , all of us do still touch our faces .... but I do a lot of butt and genital touching too ...somehow gloves seems right ...dunno ... ( if you are on adt you get it )
Plus if you get the stylish black shinny latex gloves .... even better ...
I follow the government guidelines about face touching. Surprise gov has not included negative affects of smoking (tobacco ,pot and vaping) to the respiratory system and to those nearby. I can smell smoke a dozen feet away.
Virus can also be transmitted by eating through communal dishes , ,buffet, Double dipping,etc.
It seems obvious that we should all be wearing masks as they were in the pictures of China where I believe it was a requirement. I feel we are being mislead about the necessity of masks due to shortages.
I agree it is only common sense if masks work for doctors and nurses treating patients it works between a grocery clerk and a customer. Bend the curve then back to work with masks.
“ can’t touch this “! ! Hammer time!’indeed.We touch our faces without thought in the past . That’s now over . Let’s make a pac to be here in September brother ? . Peace to up north and all of our cCanuck brothers too ! 😂🕊
I read something interesting that suggested protective measures in the context of how much we might unknowingly aspirate in our sleep. As we age, we will be more prone to respiratory infection because our lungs are less able to handle the particulate we breathe in. (The ability of the lungs to handle the crap we breathe in is of course further compromised by smoking and pollutants and other factors.)
While we are sleeping, we breathe into our lungs a certain amount of "stuff" (dust, saliva, mucus, etc.) We are likely to increase the amounts of this if we are sedated (with alcohol or medicines) before going to bed, so please consider this: NOT sedating yourself heavily (or even lightly) MAY be protective.
Another goal is to minimize the virus burden around and inside your face before you go to sleep. Before bed, use mouthwash and wash your face, perhaps even the first half-inch of your nostrils (hey, an excuse to stick your finger up your nose!).
So the upshot may be, don't trim those nose hairs, but shampoo, rinse and repeat.
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