I have been well aware that sugar feeds cancer, and have been trying my best to keep it to a minimum.
I recently bought a bottle of unsweetened organic apple sauce. Very tasty. While it has no added sugar, it still contains 11 grams. Should I be concerned?
I don't want to give up on fruits. I do buy organic as much as I can. Appreciate your thoughts.
Once more:
healthunlocked.com/advanced....
For fruit, I would avoid those with free glucose - you can check the USDA database - because of a possible effect on insulin levels. Basically, if a fruit is diabetic-safe it is OK. Essentially berries.
-Patrick
It doesn't matter what you eat, cancer will take what it needs to grow from the bloodstream. If you don't replace the carbs used by cancer through diet, your body will turn muscle into carbohydrates, making atrophy due to ADT even worse.
Well, it depends on the diet. If you are on a 90%-fat keto diet, the body will consume only so much muscle before it relies mostly on ketones. As long as you keep a bit of protein in the diet, and caloric needs are met by fat intake, why would your body consume itself?
The body over the long term needs certain fats and certain proteins in certain amounts, and an adequate energy supply. Technically, carbs are the only thing you could actually live WITHOUT. Glucose needs could be satisfied by proteins.
Yes, dietary protein can satisfy the needs for glucose. Dietary carbohydrates can also limit catabolism. Getting approximately the right number of calories from a variety of foods is the important thing. When people are afraid to eat fruit, I see that as excessive. There's a huge difference between an apple and a super sized soft drink.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
This is a division in thinking. I do think that it matters what we eat . “Food is medicine”
I'll agree with "food is medicine". But cancer by it's very nature is unregulated growth. Food won't directly regulate cancer growth in any significant way. Food can influence things like immune function, and that can help attack the cancer. Vegetables may also have cytotoxic chemicals that can kill cancer cells.
There's lots of good reasons to eat healthy, but "starving cancer" isn't one of them.
Sugar feeds cancer, and so do carbs, fats and proteins. Prostate cancer for most of its lifecycle prefers fats. Deprive the cancer of one and it will thrive on the others.
Running turned me into a bit of a physiology geek long before cancer came into the picture.
I would worry more about meat than sugar from fruits.
And all processed foods .
Body utilises Carbohydrates first..if available....Carbs get depleted after 14 hours of fasting as Glycogen storage in liver can store only 500 grams of sugar.
After 14 to 16 hours, body switches to fat use for energy..causing ketones. When most of the fat is used ,body has no choice but to start using protein(muscles) as a last resort.
Liver has mechanisms to convert to each into one another. such as Gluconeogenesis...meaning new glucose formation from fats and protein.
Glusose is needed for all cells and in particular brain cells as neurons can ONLY use glucose to function.
So in reality, it doesnot matter whether we are eating carbohydrates, fats or protein..cancer cells will be able to have glucose. The important pointi is to eat less of all food to prevent obesity because Obesity accelerates cancer growth. Keeping BMI at around 22 is helpful.
"it does not matter whether we are eating carbohydrates, fats or protein"
As I note in a separate post, this is true only insofar as the raw energy needs of cells. And obviously that's what you mean in the context of your post, but it's important to remind others that it may not be true as related to the seemingly infinite number of growth pathways whose activation/deactivation influences the speed of cancer progression.
And yes indeed, I think getting BMI down is crucial. First thing I did after diagnosis and a bit of research was to go from 200lb to 160lb, around where I more properly belong. I theorize that if I had spent the past 40 years at that "correct" weight and level of caloric intake, rather than weighing 30% too much and eating probably 100% too much (I like food) that my cancer would still be indolent rather than metastatic
We are blessed in a way to have a cancer that generally has a pretty slow doubling time, because that means we often have lots of opportunity to KEEP that growth slow, and die with our cancers rather than of them.
Sleep, exercise, diet and spirit are tools we all can and should use, and in some cases may be more important than the tools our doctors bring to the table.
Very good LearnAll. But must make one correction. When one goes into full ketosis (a 2 to 3 day adaptation typically) the brain switches over entirely to burning ketones. This is an evolutionary adaptation to survive the lean times for hunter-gatherers. Both the brain and the muscles (etc.) function quite well in the keto-adapted state. No hunger, no cravings, no bonking and steady even energy at aerobic levels of intensity. And sharp clear mentation, like a hunter on the savannah. Energy won't run out until the fat stores are gone. I am walking 12 to 17 miles per day fueled by ketones for the past 3 months.
In my keto experiences, I sometimes find cravings take far longer to go away, and then also they may return out of the blue at any time. For me, the simple act of eating ANYTHING (even a food of nearly pure fat) can trigger the memory of and desire for eating one of the highly addictive foods I have given up. I am less likely to experience any hunger and/or craving when I am doing a full-on fast.
But yes, a few weeks into keto can be a beautiful thing. Food has lost its grip on you, and you are no longer in "the realm of the hungry ghosts."
Good point that some cravings are more rooted in psychology and conditioned memories imprinted in reward circuits. So those are harder to extinguish or replace.
Impressive ! 12 to17 miles a day? I thought I am great as I walk 5 to 6 miles a day.
Now, I feel like I have to up my game...reach atleast 10 miles a day.
I am training to prepare to hike the John Muir Trail in the California Sierras. That's why my distances are over the top at this time. 5 to 6 miles is a great long term routine. My point was that I discovered that my energy seems bottomless on the keto program.
As others have pointed out, cancer (and especially prostate cancer) does not simply "feed on sugar" or carbs. But by no means should one take that as an indication that a high-carb diet is okay.
Far more important is to consider what metabolic and growth pathways, and gene expressions, might be up-regulated and down-regulated by specific foods or overall dietary regimes. So for example while it may not matter whether your cancer cells "feed on sugar" or not, it very much could matter that a high-carb diet could be inflammatory and activate pro-tumor pathways/factors/genes.
Likewise, while it is known that prostate cancer depends on fats, it is less well known that the cancer easily creates its own needed fatty acids using amino acids in de novo synthesis. What does this mean for your diet? It MIGHT mean that a restriction of certain proteins and amino acids is FAR more important than an overall restriction of dietary fats.
In fact, some have suggested a calorie-restricted keto diet, with very low percentages of carb and protein relative to non-animal fats (olive, coconut, avocado, etc.) may change one's overall metabolic profile in a way that depresses the progression of some cancers.
Other than in general terms and with certain exceptions, it is very hard to say definitively which foods and dietary regimes might be helpful or harmful. For myself, I have put a few in my own "that's GOTTA be good" category: unfiltered extra virgin olive oil, avocados, raspberries/blackberries, celery, and a few others.
The more advanced a cancer, the more difficult it is going to be to exert control over it with diet. I wish I had made more adjustments in my 30s and 40s. But even knowing what I know now, I wonder if I would have stuck with them. Food that's "bad" for me just tastes too damn good. It's literally addictive.
"high carb diet is inflammatory" ????
Not exactly true. Depends on what do you mean by Carbs...if you mean french fries, junk food breads and pasta etc. you may be right.
But by carbs, if you mean Guava, sweet potatoes, red apples, radishes ,carrots, brocolli, peppers...etc. then, you are not right. Because the secong group of Carbs are ANTI-Inflammatory.
Meat especially processed and packed meat is the most pro-inflammatory food.
How about organic no nitrite turkey breast like Applegate Farms brand?
Applegate Farms does not add artificial nitrites. It does add celery juice, which contains--NITRATES!
""high carb diet is inflammatory"
Hey, don't quote me unless, well... you actually QUOTE me! I agree that the above statement is not exactly true... which is why I didn't say it.
Your points are well taken, but what I really said was "a high-carb diet COULD be inflammatory." And I know MINE was, big time.
Being strick my nat dr said to not eat grapes bananas ,pineapple and don’t juice fruits at all . Really strick no potatoes yams or other starchy veggies .
I agree with Patrick and Whimpy. My "no growth" cancer diet allows raspberries, avocados, tart apples, grapefruit and not too ripe kiwi. If it tastes sweet, don't eat. The only exception is POM juice which has been "neutral" for me; doesn't help nor hurt a good diet and will not save a bad diet. I will not eat bananas, grapes, pineapple, nor starchy vegetables. I also will not "juice" fruit . . . which has destroyed a good diet in the past.
I am not sure that a good diet can "starve cancer", but it can do a good imitation. My last five PSAs are: 0.431, 0.415, 0.363, 0.312, and 0.305. This is using diet alone.
Where did u start from and when on your psa journey
PSA was 0.05 after SRT, started to rise in early 2013. Reached 0.525 in Nov. 2018, and moving down since. Took over 5 years to develop the diet which is vegan + wild caught seafood in small amounts, includes raspberries and soy, no fast carbs, and modest exercise. Diet is very strict, moderation does not work for me. My PSA went from 0.525 to 0.305. I do not plan to take it much lower, since that could lead to proliferation of resistant populations. This approach is called "Adaptive Therapy" or "Maintenance Therapy", with Moffitt Cancer Center taking the lead.
Just make sure that when it comes to grapefruit check your meds. I am on Olaparib, and it contains a warning label to avoid grapefruit.
eat as healthy foods as you can afford. Sugar is sugar no matter the form, but again balance is the key. NO matter what the food, pc will continue to advance, there is NO cure no matter the diet you choose.
Do not spend all of your time in waste on attempting to battle your pc with food!!!
LIVE LARGE and spend your remaining days wise boys! ROCK ON
I have one or two drinks every night. I eat a piece of chocolate every night. Had a steak Saturday night and the occasional bowl of ice cream.
Half a dozen surgeries, 21 bags if chemo, Xtandi, Lupron, ADT for years now. Penile protheses just so we can keep having sex (or it would be over). They keep telling me I have only “ “ this much time.
I go to the gym 3 times a week. Undetectable PSA and clean scans last time around. Im gonna eat what I want, drink what I want, and ride my motorcycle until I cant put the kickstand up anymore. Im not going to let Pca dictate anything in my life.
Yeah man. You go Survivor! What kind of a motorcycle do you ride? I am an Africa Twin Adventure Sports guy (ADV rider).
I have a big street motorcycle, a Triumph Thunderbird 1700. It’s a monster. Motorcycle riding is my happy place.
Amen brother! Everything in moderation. If I had to go vegan and cut out all sugar I would be miserable. I try and eat as healthy as I can with lots of fruit and vegetables, without denying myself some guilty pleasures.
I drink to that, cheers.🍸🍸🤠
Fruit is OK eaten whole, and the little fructose and sucrose is fairly harmless. But much other food you buy has added fructose, added fats, and salt to make you want to buy more of that junk food.
But blood sugar levels are fairly well regulated with insulin providing you are not diabetic, and no matter what you do to lower sugar of any kind in diet, blood sugar remains and is quite sufficient to support the growth of Pca which usually grows so slowly its sugar intake is tiny. Even if you try to starve, the Pca will not die unless you die.
The ketogenic diet is supposed to reduce Pca growth but I doubt it.
BTW, fructose added by food industry to their junk food is poison.
Bread and potatoes have starch, easily converted to blood sugar, and too much if not used in daily exercise will be turned to fat, so you see the resulting epidemic of fat bellied ppl around who can't say no to eating too much, even though it may well be all organic good stuff. Millions if not billions cannot control how much they eat when there is so much food around. They blame all manner of things about why they get fat, except blame their inability to reject too much food, soft drinks and alcohol.
If you have Pca, there is almost nothing any man can do to stop it growing except to get medical treatment.
We like to think that if we get fit, stay fit, eat right, Pca will vanish. It usually does not vanish. Patrick Turner.
My first intervention after diagnosis was to try a calorie-restricted version of the ketogenic diet. In a few months I took my BMI of near 30 to the low 20s, so at the very least it was good for that.
But interestingly, my PSA also dropped from 20 to 13 in three months. So if SOME diets are at least supposed to slow the rate of Pca growth I don't doubt it. But the trouble was, the diet I was on was too restrictive for me to actually maintain. A diet is only going to work if its sustainable.
I've kept the excess weight off, but the PSA quickly rebounded, and then some.
Ultimately, I think a definitive "PC diet" for certain sub-groups of men COULD be discovered, and it will revolve around targeting specific metabolic pathways the cancer cells are overly dependent upon. An example might be a diet that totally restricts any intake of the amino acid methionine.
It may indeed prove impossible to "starve the cancer" in the general sense of the overall form of caloric input, but possible to at least "stress the cancer" and make it very hungry and weak in a very narrow sense of removing one particular metabolic element of the cancer's diet.
In another Pca group, someone argued his ketogenic diet kept his Psa at very low levels after diagnosis. He argued that cancer absorbs a large amount of blood sugar, but then when we got to discussing real figures and quantities he seemed to know nothing, and then he quoted dis-credited sources which were confusing, so I concluded his variety of Pca was Wussy-1, ie, a most weak form of Pca, and the least little thing done to control or eradicate it seems to work. Pca "sufferers" with Wussy-1 Pca then make all sorts of claims about diets or other potions that they say worked for them, but unfortunately for so many, diet, Auntie's Favourite Elixer stuff in an old bottle just has no effect whatever.
My BMI is now 22.5, and I cycled 80.2km this morning. I did 87km last Sunday. I must have used up a lot of calories before I had lunch, a bowl of laksa at Thai cafe.
I am 77kg now, was 85Kg in July last year after 3 months of doing very little,
but soon as I was shocked by gaining 3Kg over winter I dieted down to 83kg, then re-started cycling after sore hip stopped being sore, and went to 82Kg, and then in late Nov last year I had a stomach blockage due to adhesions of small intestine to scar tissue from 2010 surgery. I lost 8Kg in 11 days. That much fat and muscle went down the toilet or was converted to CO2 because I could not eat and all bio-bacteria in guts was exterminated. I had easy surgery to cut adhesions, and now feel recovered after bad initial weakness and woefully slow speed on bicycle.
Psa was 0.32 last November, but now its about 1.5, and two mets in bones have been spotted as being active. That's all. Mets were countless at November 2018, after chemo failed and when I started Lu177 with Psa 25. The reduction of Psa was good from Lu177, and I doubt diet or weight or exercise had the slightest effect on my Pca status.
The trauma of a gut blockage and starving for 11 days may have encouraged the Pca activity I now have to worry about.
Many ppl like to think that if they diet, wear a purple shirt, meditate in the desert under full moon, drink the pee of a virgin, and pray fervently to God that cancer will be cured. NO IT WON'T.
Most who insist DIY "curing methods are way to go" soon end up dead.
Maybe there's one exception. Germaine Greer volunteered to allow a sample of her bone marrow to be extracted for medical research. Using stem cell methods, a big amount was grown in labs in UK at Stinkerton Research Hospital in Porkshire. This was then injected into men with Pca. Results were a bit variable, but with 30% of men, the Pca vanished, but they had severe mental transgendering to being angry old wymmin, and prone to complain any all things old and young men do, or don't do.
Funding for this research seemed to dry up because of the unusual results which could not quite be confabulated around to convince the UK's NHS into giving an approval.
On the other hand, trials of DNA taken from other popular celebrities like Boris Johnson, Mr Putin, Tonald Drump, Margaret Thatcher and others all are being cultured up in test tubes and mixed to match the aggressive DNA properties of any Pca sufferers. Remarkable early tests show that adding some DNA from the present and previous few Popes gave extra 20% remission, but side effects were that all these Pca sufferers spent all their days in prayer, walking around in Rome on their knees, and worrying about the Catholic Church. This indicated it would be futile to try to transfer some DNA from some ppl I dare not mention.
It will be autumn soon, great weather for months before winter, and it seems I will see another springtime. I'll need luck to see more without Pca hindering my future.
Patrick Turner.
In answer to your initial question... Always lots of valid knowledge and opposing opinions from our great group on the subject of diet. Hard to judge the correct path for YOU.
Read, research, act on your judgement.
MY implementation is if the ingredients say anything about added sugar I just don't eat it. I happily eat fruit and other foods that may have some of the same sugar molecules.
Generally I follow a heart healthy diet with some added tweaks I believe may benefit my immune system.
2Dee
The problem with packaged foods is that while it may say "No added sugar," can you believe them? A suggestion for you: eat raw fruit. That is the only way you can be assured that you aren't being fooled. There are so many sugars on the market and cancer LOVES SUGAR!!! SUGAR IS HEROIN FOR CANCER. TAKE IT AWAY IN ALL FORMS.
I can suggest many artificial sugars, but there is always the fear in my mind that the Xylitol, Aspartame or any number of "other" sugars will be just as bad or even worse. Take no chances with sugar. Eat rationally, eat raw, and eat anything sweet in moderation. Err on the side of life. Don't go the route of my husband and opt for a small piece of chocolate cake every night. That small piece of cake with ice cream added 28 lesions to his stabilized liver, causing him to lose 60% of his liver function. He's trying to undo that damage. Will he? Right now the jury is out, but either way, he has lost so much, including family members who loved him so much. Sadly he felt that escaping would help as well. We can only hope he realizes that his version of reality turns back to the way it once truly was, but that doesn't seem likely. We can only wish him well. Eat apples, seeds and all, blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, but add beets, carrots and a good organic protein powder with unsweetened almond milk in moderation. Be safe, stay healthy and don't ever trust words like "natural" on any packaged foods. I wish you health and a long life. 🙏
Please don't be so hard on your husband. After my diagnosis I cut way back on sugar, red meat, added a lot of fruits and vegetables to my diet, and worked my way up to running 30 miles a week. My PSA was (and still is) <0.01.
I still ended up with neuroendocrine PCa metastasized to my liver, despite stressing over what was safe to eat.
As a wife, I agree with Tom. It’s hard enough living with cancer without being made to feel guilty over a minor indulgence. I’m not sure how you can draw a straight line from chocolate cake to liver mets. I’ve done my best to greatly improve my husband’s diet, but if he wants an occasional cup of ice cream, that’s his choice. I remember my SIL constantly scolding my MIL later in life if she wanted any kind of sugary dessert (she had mild diabetes). She died of Alzheimer’s. I always thought that was cruel. I’m sure you’re doing your best to help your husband, but ultimately it’s his life to live.
Monk fruit sugar is tasty, with the consistency of brown sugar and it won't harm anyone with beloved pets like Xylitol does. Xylitol is not allowed in our house since our furry friends seem to want to taste everything. Please, if anyone owns a furry family member, NIX Xylitol in your home. It causes rapid onset organ failure in our hairy companions. Monk Fruit sugar, maple syrup or honey for that sweet tooth! Virtual hugs!
Well, it is true that sugar can cause cancer cells to grow but, sugar is also important for healthy cells in the body, and there’s no way of telling our bodies to let healthy cells have the sugar they need, but not give it to cancer cells.
I think it will be best if you'll get a consultation from the doctor. He can guide you best as per his experience and he can also give you some tips for a healthy diet.
Yes, there’s no way of telling our bodies to let healthy cells have the sugar they need, but not give it to cancer cells... but it IS possible to force our healthy cells to rely more on ketones than sugar, and realize that the cancer cells cannot use ketones.
I'm not going to say that is a definitive treatment for prostate cancer, but it does give hope that certain dietary interventions MIGHT slow cancer progression.
One thing about cancer cells is they require HUGE amounts of energy. The more advanced the cancer, the harder it would be to exert an influence via diet, because it turns into a case of the tail wagging the dog. The cancer extracts the energy it needs, whether from one's diet or from one's remaining healthy cells.
The PCRI site indicates prostate cancer in particular is fed by animal proteins (amino acids) and not sugar like some cancers. Will look for the exact study.
I have read further that PC uses these proteins in de novo fatty acid synthesis. So while PC is highly dependent on lipids, it appears that those do not necessarily come from dietary fats but can and do come from the breakdown and reformulation of dietary proteins.
The link between PC and meat/dairy commonly leads people to assume animal fats cause and feed PC. But it seems very possible that animal PROTEIN is the bigger and more important culprit.
Diets high in animal PROTEIN seem to stimulate all the growth factors that are associated with... well... GROWTH. Middle-aged sedentary men certainly do not need the high-growth of a fetus or a child. To some degree, I suspect a certain amount of PC expression/progression is simply the result of too many calories of the wrong type for too many years.
The ultimate "cure" for PC for many of us will come only with the invention of the time machine.
I’m curious about what you guys think of “natural” sugar substitutes like stevia...
Stevia leaves a crummy aftertaste. Stick to Monk fruit. Also for coffee lovers, the new Superfood Creamer available from Costco tastes pretty darn good!
It is a very interesting question, Hoping. And I believe there is no definitive clinical research trials that demonstrates that eliminating all sugars (including natural fruit sugars) makes a measurable difference in prostate cancer progression or survival. So you should be okay in your choices.
I have been on a ketogenic diet for the past four months which restricts all sugars and other non-fiber carbohydrates to around 20 grams per day. That means no fruits or starchy foods at all. The benefits are quite amazing. Easily dropped all excess body fat (down 38 lbs) and have in-exhaustible energy from burning fat (via ketones), no cravings or hunger at all. And puts my physiology in a repair, recycle, renew and protect configuration. I feel like a primitive hunter in this state! And the fog of ADT/chemo brain seems to have lifted.
Still questions about "feeding" the cancer remain: In early stages of the disease prostate cancer metabolism is primarily fueled by fat. So ketogenic diet, rich in fat energy, might make the cancer quite happy too. And perhaps indifferent to sugars.
Yet in advanced PC the cancer metabolism becomes predominantly sugar (glucose) fueled. That is marked by when FDG PET scans become positive.
But do I believe (personal opinion only) that these factors should guide my dietary choices in view of my APC? No. I think the cancer is going to find and use its preferred fuel anyway. Yet I cannot rule out that my ketogenic program, with its many compelling benefits, might also be giving my, as-yet fat-burning (mHSPC), cancer its favorite meal.
You say: "In early stages of the disease prostate cancer metabolism is primarily fueled by fat. So ketogenic diet, rich in fat energy, might make the cancer quite happy too."
Yes, but as I mention in another post, while PC is highly dependent on lipids, it appears that those do not necessarily come from dietary fats but can and do come from the breakdown and reformulation of dietary proteins via "de novo fatty acid synthesis."
So high-fat keto may not be so bad, especially if it's low-protein. My goal has usually been an 80-10-10 breakdown.
To my surprise, I sometimes experience cravings for high-protein foods (CHEESE! MEAT!) even more strongly than for the various sugary and starchy foods I have always been addicted to. (And I do mean "addicted" quite literally.)
Glucose is basically the cash in hand for your body.
It does not matter what you eat, your body will try and keep your level of blood glucose within normal limits.
Letting it fall too far results in coma and death so it is quite keen on this!
You can control the highs to a certain extent by eating whole grains, beans, etc and avoiding things that contain a lot of added sugars either as sucrose or as glucose or glucose - fructose syrup.
The idea is that these things take longer to digest, the sugar is absorbed more slowly so the blood sugar level rises more slowly.
If you know that 500ml or roughly a pint of normal CocaCola has something like 50g, 2 oz of sucrose in it and your body has about 5g of sugar in your blood you will realise that it can result in quite a sugar high!
Being on ADT can push your blood glucose well out of the normal range, mine rose to 1.70g/ L at peak, enough to convince my doctor that I was a type 2 diabetic.
Now five months off the Degarelix and taking 2 times 500mg metformin a day I am down to 1.05 - 1.10 g/L in the morning so I am in the normal range.
Your body only sees the molecules. Sugar is sugar is sugar, whether from organic apples or high fructose corn syrup. It is the quantity that matters and the other beneficial things you might get.
I usually sprinkle a bit of sugar on my well buttered pancakes after the syrup is poured on. A few strips of bacon balances things out. PSA= .029
Our cat does not eat much in the way of carbohydrates but her body is ticking away processing the protein and glycerol from fats into glucose to feed her muscles.
Glucose is pretty much key to mammalian metabolism, you can control the peak levels in your body by adapting your diet, but at the end of the day your body will process other things to keep the blood glucose in the magic range if you are healthy.
Well, I think some here are getting the picture and message, that is to LIVE LIFE LARGE, live with pc and to do as much as one can do.
Eat anything you want.....
I'll settle for my chocolate chip ice cream (2 scoops)....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Monday 02/24/2020 10:08 PM EST
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