B Vitamins and Prostate Cancer

[SooHwa99]

How is one to appropriately supplement on a Vegan diet and not increase your risk of causing more problems?

[Shanti1]

B12 is the only B vitamin lacking in a healthy vegan diet. In my experience, not all vegans become B12 deficient, so perhaps some have intestinal bacteria that produce enough. You can run a serum B12 test or a urinary (methylmalonic acid) MMA test. Of the two, the MMA is more sensitive. I recently had the opportunity to look through about 100 tests where individuals had tested both serum B12 and MMA at the same time. On several tests, MMA showed a B12 deficiency, but serum B12 was normal. There were no tests where serum B12 was low and MMA was normal. Tests where MMA showed B12 deficiency were correlated with higher homocysteine and MCV.

The other marker that you can keep an eye on is MCV, its part of a CBC and is an indicator of red blood cell size. As B12 deficiency develops, the red blood cells get larger and eventually the person develops a B12 deficiency anemia, but the MCV will typically increase before the anemia develops. A B12 deficiency isn't the only cause for an elevated MCV, folic acid deficiency can cause it, and some times people have a higher MCV despite not being deficient in either of these nutrients. Nonetheless, if your baseline MCV is normal, you can use it to help monitor your B12 need. My husband uses this method (he is vegan). When his MCV gets to the top of the reference range, he takes a little B12 and it brings it back to the low to mid 90s.

[SooHwa99 in reply to Shanti1]

Thank you so much.

[pjoshea13 in reply to Shanti1]

Re: B12, see:

healthunlocked.com/advanced....

-Patrick

[Shanti1 in reply to pjoshea13]

Great post! for those of you who didn't read it, Patrick introduces the argument that a mild B-12 deficiency may be desirable in prostate cancer due to hypermethylation silencing tumor suppressor genes (B12 is a methyl donor). B12 also participates in methyl donation for other cell functions like DNA and protein synthesis. Interestingly, one of our first oncologists suggested we maintain a mild B12 deficiency, but with my husband's fatigue and treatment-induced anemia, we didn't do that.

[LearnAll in reply to Shanti1]

I agree with your thoughts above. I am a vegetarian (plantbased 99% +milk products 1%)

I have never had B12 deficiency in my life. If I will have low B 12 ,I plan to take B12 liquid which is used sub lingually and can raise B12 level significantly.

No other vitamin or mineral deficiency is caused by vegetarian diet.

[Magnus1964]

Most breakfast cereals are sprayed with B-12 and it is a stable compound.

[jkm100]

Hmmm...I just ordered Synbiotic 365 to see if it will help with bad gut. It combines B vitamins with probiotics and a prebiotic.

Now I’m a little worried about taking this.

[Gemlin_]

Fact #1: The human body needs vitamin B12 to make red blood cells, nerves, DNA etc

Fact #2: Plants don’t make vitamin B12. The only foods that deliver it are meat, eggs, poultry, dairy products, and other foods from animals.

Conclusion: It is natural for humans to be vegan, or ...? It is natural to supplement, or ...?

[Shanti1]

Hi Gemlin- I think we can say with certainty that our ancestors were not vegan or vegetarian, but were omnivores, eating whatever was available, both animal and plant. So being vegan/vegetarian may not be 'natural', the question is, is it beneficial? Although anyone can cherry-pick studies to support their dietary ideology, I think the many studies on the Mediterranean diet and the large Adventist Health Study (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... tell us that a plant-based, wholefood, polyphenol-rich, diet confers health benefit (this doesn't necessarily mean vegan). At least this is what I have concluded.

[Gemlin_ in reply to Shanti1]

I make the same conclusion, a vegetarian/vegan diet is healthier than the western pattern diet. One reason could be because the veg/vegans avoid the bad stuff (saturated fats, added sugars, ..) in the WPD? It is not because nutrients from plants is more beneficial than nutrients from animals for the human body? What do you think?

In the diet vs. cancer discussion, one line in the report you linked to, says:

"No significant associations with reduced cancer mortality were detected. "

[Shanti1 in reply to Gemlin_]

Although there is certainly benefit in avoiding processed foods, I think that plant compounds also have benefit for health. The literature is replete with associations between intake of various plants (turmeric, blueberries, coffee, beans, nuts, whole grains, green tea, tomato, broccoli, etc) and a reduction in the incidence of heart disease, diabetes, cognitive decline, some cancers, etc. The mechanisms for this may range from how these compounds interact with our gene expression (increasing internal antioxidant and longevity pathways and decreasing inflammatory pathways such as NF-KB), to the nutrients and free radical protection they provide, to how plant compounds and fiber favorably modify our microbiome. Microbiome composition is now proving to have a wide impact on our weight, cholesterol, BP, mood, immune function and inflammatory response among other impacts. When it comes to nutrients from animals, sure we get protein, iron, fat, B12 and some level of other vitamins and minerals, but they don’t provide the fiber, polyphenols, and higher levels of some vitamins and minerals that we get from plants. Omega-3 rich seafood is the only animal product known to reduce inflammation. In fact, in the large Adventist study (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... it was the Vegetarian+Fish diet that performed the best, followed by the vegan and then the vegetarian diet. Regarding cancer in that study, I wonder if they had isolated different variables, such as cruciferous vegetable intake, or green tea intake, regardless of diet, if they would have found any associations. Anyhow, in my opinion, the data overall is better for the role of diet in cancer prevention than in post-diagnosis cancer survival. Some of us feel that doing everything we can with diet, exercise, select supplements, along with SOC, may tip the scales in our favor, but I can appreciate opinions on all sides. My husband is vegan, and I am not sure it helps, but since cardiovascular disease and weight gain are also concerns I am very supportive. His personality is also such that he is happy and doesn’t feel like he is depriving himself or missing out. I think a diet like this may have more impact: healthunlocked.com/advanced..., but more studies are needed.

[SooHwa99 in reply to Shanti1]

I certainly hope so. I am Vegan also do to the items you mentions. I was 335# prior to this journey and now am 210# one year later. I do not generally feel deprived either. Thank you for your response.

[Shanti1 in reply to SooHwa99]

Wow, congratulations on your weight loss, that is amazing!

[SooHwa99 in reply to Shanti1]

Thank you, I still have a bout 50# to go, but it has been a bit challenging being on Lupron, although I have lost a about 15 pounds since I started. My RO stated she had never seen anyone loose weight on Lupron before...LMAO! I hired a train at our towns park district gym and see him once a week and go to the gym 4 to 5 times a week on my own. My wife also reminds me that I may very well have gained muscle mass since I am working out with weights so much. The trainer stated that I have actually increased my strength, so she may very well be correct and that is a contributing factor as to why I have plateaued.

[GeorgesCalvez]

I suspect that the healthiest diet is one that incorporates a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables with a modicum of meat, fish and dairy products to cover the bases of essential amino acids, vitamins, etc.

Humans are naturally omnivorous so we can live quite healthily on a range of diets and as we process almost all our food by cooking, etc before we eat it we can eat things that would be very difficult in its raw state.

[pilot52 in reply to GeorgesCalvez]

I do personally like this approach...It seems like eating as you described above with exercise we keep ourselves in better shape to tolerate these therapies. Peloton, weight resistance exercise, plus stay overall active and try to laugh a lot...I question one who works out for 30 minutes and then sits on their ass all day ......Blue Skies.....

[EdBar]

Dr. Sartor advised me to avoid B12 supplements, he said that “prostate cancer loves it”.

Ed

[cbgjr]

This subject has been on my mind and I can't find a good answer to this conundrum. I'm not really vegan or vegetarian, but try to a eat small amounts of dead animals (maybe only 1/3 of meals).

My situation is complicated because I have a bad case of neuropathy, mostly caused by chemo. And I'm also borderline anemic, from other cancer meds.

B vitamins are needed for nerve health so neurologists recommend taking them. Yet there seems to be some evidence that this could make PCa more aggressive. So what to do?

I presently take a supplement that has small amounts of B12(50mg), B1 and B2, etc.

I'm afraid of becoming an invalid bc neuropathy, and/or so anemic that I wouldn't be able to continue taking cancer meds. Sigh...

CG

[cashlessclay in reply to cbgjr]

I use a vitamin B12 supplement to get blood serum levels to 600 pg/mL, which is mid-range of normal. I also use diet to control PSA and the addition of the B12 supplement had no detrimental affect on my ability to control my PSA. I'm using methyl B12, 1,000 mcg - - 1 to 2 per WEEK - - broken up and added to hummus. I have been doing this for about one year, and my PSA has decreased from 0.525 to 0.312 over that time period. My PSA without my 7 year old diet program is estimated to be 225.

[monte1111 in reply to cbgjr]

I also have foot neuropathy because of chemo. I am anemic from hormone treatment. I occasionally take a B12 vitamin. Occasionally take Alpha Lipoic Acid. Do these help? Probably not. Have been using heating pad that turns off automatically to try to keep feet warm at night. MO said ok. Probably not good if you have diabetes. Don't know, not a Dr. I also eat dead animals. The live ones were a real hassle.

[Cgjunior in reply to monte1111]

Funny!

[Oct18]

I went vegan after diagnosis 15 months ago. I take b12 supplement twice a week per my doctors advice. Going vegan was my choice, it won’t cure anything but I feel good, very little fatigue and I exercise as much as possible, 3-4 times a week. My psa.is undetectable and has been for 5 months. I’m also 48 years old.

[SooHwa99 in reply to Oct18]

13 months for me. I do feel good on a vegan diet too. Cut out as much processed sugar as possible too. I think I am tolerating my therapies better due to eating a WFPB Diet, well as much whole food as I can get. 57 yo.