New UK study below [1], using "data from 475,488 participants (54% women) in UK Biobank. Participants were aged 37–73 years and cancer free at baseline. Cancer diagnosis and death due to cancer during follow-up were determined using data-linkage with cancer and death registries"
During follow-up "23,117 participants were diagnosed with any type of malignant cancer."
"Poultry intake was positively associated with risk for malignant melanoma (HR per 30 g/day increment in intake 1.20 ...), prostate cancer (1.11 ...) and non-Hodgkin lymphoma (1.26 ..).
The study also reported a PCa risk for red meat: "prostate cancer (1.14 ...), but this association is "not supported by most previous prospective studies and may be affected by residual confounding."
Might the chicken association also "be affected by residual confounding"?
Times: "Britons consume 1.3bn chickens a year and eat the meat twice a week on average." Brits are already anxious about having to eat chlorinated chicken from America after Brexit.
MEAT INTAKE AND CANCER RISK: PROSPECTIVE ANALYSES IN UK BIOBANK
A Knuppel*, K Papier, PN Appleby, TJ Key, A Perez-Cornago. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Nuffield Department of Population Health, University of Oxford, Oxford, UK
10.1136/jech-2019-SSMabstracts.31
Background The latest meta-analysis from the World Cancer Research Fund/American Institute for Cancer Research concluded that red meat was a probable cause and processed meat a convincing cause of colorectal cancer. However, evidence for associations between red and processed meat intake and other cancer sites is limited. Furthermore, few studies have examined the association between poultry intake and cancer risk. Therefore, the aim of this study was to examine the associations between red, processed meat and poultry intake and incidence for 20 common cancer sites.
Methods We analysed data from 475,488 participants (54% women) in UK Biobank. Participants were aged 37–73 years and cancer free at baseline. Cancer diagnosis and death due to cancer during follow-up were determined using data-linkage with cancer and death registries (with follow-up until 30 November 2014 for England and Wales and until 31 Decem- ber 2014 for Scotland, respectively). Information on meat consumption was based on a touchscreen questionnaire completed at baseline covering type and frequency of meat intake. We used multivariable-adjusted Cox proportional hazards models to determine the association between baseline meat intake and cancer incidence. Analyses of lung cancer risk were restricted to never smokers. All analyses were adjusted for socio-demographic, lifestyle and women-specific factors.
Results Over a mean 5.7 (SD 1.1) years of follow-up 23,117 participants were diagnosed with any type of malignant cancer. Red meat intake was positively associated with colorectal cancer (Hazard ratio (HR) per 50 g/day increment in intake 1.20, 95% Confidence Interval (CI) 1.02–1.41), breast cancer (1.13, 1.01–1.27) and prostate cancer (1.14, 1.00–1.29). Processed meat intake was positively associated with risk for colorectal cancer (HR per 20 g/day increment in intake 1.16, 95% CI 1.04–1.30). Poultry intake was positively associated with risk for malignant melanoma (HR per 30 g/day increment in intake 1.20, 95% CI 1.00–1.44), prostate cancer (1.11, 1.02– 1.22) and non-Hodgkin lymphoma (1.26, 1.03–1.55).
Discussion Higher intakes of red and processed meat were associated with a higher risk of colorectal cancer. Red meat consumption was also positively associated with risk of breast and prostate cancer, but these associations are not supported by most previous prospective studies and may be affected by residual confounding.The positive associations of poultry intake with prostate cancer and non-Hodgkin lymphoma require further investigation.
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pjoshea13
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Red Meat is clearly associated with increased incidence of all kinds of cancer. But the powerful meat industry will keep confusing people by brining contradictory studies just like Philip Morris kept bringing studies showing benefits of cigarettes until people finally woke up and understood the deception.
Unfortunately, when an industry becomes too big and powerful, it takes long to expose them and pull them down as they use their resources to keep confusing people about their product until they are able to switch to a new line of business.
There is enough evidence that all kind of meat cause cancer ..(.even fish but to a much lesser degree.) Bigger the animal ,more the risk. Also, roasted ,barbequed , charred meat is most dangerous.
Jaysus, gave up red meat long ago (maybe once or twice a year). I eat chicken as main protein source now...Recently cut down on soy due to PCa risks. Guess I’m screwed!
Mike....Amount of protein required for a human body is less than what most people estimate
Here is the formula from top medical books to estimate how much protein you truly require.
Protein need = 1 gram per kilogram of body weight.
For example :If your body weight is 70 kg, you only require 70 grams of protein in 24 hours.
Any amount higher than this is waste.. an unnecessary burden on your kidneys
One egg (white part only) has 6 gram of pure protein. All ,, lentils, beans, yogurt, rice , wheat , veggies, fruits etc everything has some protein. If you calculate correctly, it will turn out to be enough protein without putting too much strain on the kidney.
We can have milk products as they do not make prostate cancer worse. See Tall Allen's
valuable post on this forum... 3 months ago with title "COW JUICE IS OK"
Studies about milk which cleared the confusion about effects of milk on prostate cancer.
Mikesky….Honestly...what motivates me to eat only plant based food plus yogurt is the scary thought of being in wheelchair due to wrong food accelerating not just Pca but also high blood pressure, Diabetes, arthritis and so on.
Keeping body lighter has lots of benefits . My diet is very helpful .I am only 2 lbs more than my ideal body weight due to eating lot of veggies and fruits every day.
This morning, I had a big bowl of cooked broccoli and green tea in breakfast. I was happy imagining I am getting a good amount of sulforafanes and EGCG..both fighting on my behalf with damn PCA... BTW, don't forget to sprinkle some black pepper on broccoli..it improves taste.
Haha good to hear. I do eat quite a bit of veggies and some fruit and have done a good job at keeping the fat off with my diet and exercise. I Just haven’t learned to get protein requirements met without chicken, fish and Greek yogurt. I know beans, peas, lentils etc provide protein. I need to prioritize learning how to incorporate more in my daily meals.
For sure. I currently eat about 1/2 to 3/4 cup non fat Greek yogurt. Do you eat more than that? I know a guy who eats 4 cups/day. I weigh ~204 lbs (77inches tall) Googling recipes as I type!
I eat one cup of homemade yogurt made from fatfree Milk and high quality probiotics.
Also, 15 almonds soaked in water at night and peel and eat in the morning.
Almonds have phospho lipids which help with cognition and memory and as we know Lupron, zytiga etc cause cognitive and memory problems long term. Almonds are a source of plant based proteins too.
Your weight is very good range. (204 lbs for a 6'5" tall man)
I’ve been cooking my broccoli and spinach in olive oil with some garlic. Actually taste pretty good. And garlic is supposedly quite good for you in its own right
One of the beneficial components of cruciferous veggies that broccoli has in abundance is sulforaphane. It’s not very bioavailable to us by itself. Broccoli has an enzyme in its raw state that is released as we chew it (myrosinase) that makes the sulforaphane usable. Cooking unfortunately can break down this enzyme and without it we don’t get the benefits. Ground brown mustard seed has plenty of myrosinase, so adding it to cooked broccoli (maybe other cruciferous veggies as well) cam help. Take a look at this link; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2...
Also, broccoli sprouts have the same amount of the beneficial biochemical compound as the mature plant, with each sprout containing as much sulphorafane as when fully grown.
I did that tonight with broccoli added peppers, onions and mushroom mix, yummy.. if you cannot bake meat then fry everything , seems just as bad. I do not do barbaque or charded meat, mostly bake and broil.
Stupid Statistical excercise, if you compare watching tv and not watching tv you never get an odds ratio of 1. You can do this for mobile using, sleeping, boozing and get publication but make people lose faith in the science. Even vatican is trying these kind of study for church going and non-church going.
This was just reported on the national news two days ago .. thanks Patrick .
Great. Chicken causes cancer? I've had melanoma three times and still have PCa. What's next? Hot showers cause cancer? Walking causes cancer? Sleeping causes cancer? Bingeing on Game of Thrones? La-Z-Boys? Disco balls? Tweeting and selfies cause brain and thumb cancer, respectively. Toyotas cause cancer? How about Hondas and F-150s? Light bulbs? Fleece-lined slippers? Subwoofers? Duvet covers? Watching or hearing or even thinking about orange-haired sociopaths? Sci-fi causes cancer? Laughing causes cancer? Ice cream? Oh wait wait - OMG OMG! I just saw the latest study: chicken-flavored ice cream causes cancer! Oh noooooo!
Count on it: somebody's got a study for that.
The way this cancer s*** is going, it'll soon be easier to list the things that don't cause cancer. We're all doomed! Doomed, I say! We're all gonna be assimilated! Resistance is futile! Yes, you heard it here first: The Borg cause cancer! And the Great Orange Borg in the White House causes 42 different kinds of cancer!
As many have mentioned on previous posts, "The China Study", published in 2005 is worth reading. The following YouTube link gives an overview of the findings of the book. youtube.com/watch?v=QoBx97J...
It discusses the connection between high animal protein and dairy diets and cancers.
Beware "Lies and damned Statistics!"
Consuming chickens and meat in moderate quantities does not cause cancer. What is IN the meat does! There are 2 main links - processed meats are laced with a range of known carcinogens, and chickens (in particular) are stuffed with synthetic estrogens to fatten them up quicker. There is enough estrogen in the typical Western diet to make half the men infertile, turn lots of them into women, and for girls to reach puberty about 4 years earlier than they used to. Combined with "pseudo-estrogens" from plastics and the environment, the Androgen load on the body is crippling. Need I remind that Prostate cancer thrives on Androgens - a family of chemicals that includes Testosterone, Estrogen, and dozens of chemical pollutants that "look like" estrogen so the body takes them in. I suspect that it is not "man-made" testosterone that is the main problem, but the pseudo-estrogens that are consumed, and also made in big quantities by belly fat (which is why fat men are Pca waiting to happen). "Real" estrogen also does not seem to be a problem - note the use of estrogen patches (and no ADT) does not seem to feed Pca. ADT blocks all of them. The evidence seems to be growing that "real" Testosterone may have been given a bad rap.
The bottom line is it is rather difficult for the immune system to fight the cancer when we keep eating crap. If you cannot find a source of "real" chickens, cows and dairy, it is best to avoid them. Processed pork is a no-no. GMO foods (in the USA, anything with maize or soya, and soon wheat) is guaranteed to contain Roundup and insecticides, which is now costing Monsanto a fortune in court cases because it causes cancer. Note here as well, the GMO grains are still good food - it is the poisons in the grains that are the problem - and those chickens and cows are fed this stuff as their diet too!
Here is another little problem! There is so much poison in the air, that insect populations world wide have `crashed' about 70% (up to 95% in places) and it is getting worse very quickly. And that also means far away from any poisoned fields in areas that are supposed to be pristine.
A cancer rate of `only' 50% is going to come and go very quickly. We have to be super careful what we eat if we hope for a long life. In the USA, life expectancy has already gone down, and will go down more as long as the medical profession and governments ignore the herd of elephants in the room.
They told us we were getting cancer because we were living longer. Sounds like they left a little out. A herd of elephants in the room. That's a good one. Just came from a friend's house. No insect population problem there.
Glad you found some bugs. I recently traveled for 3 weeks between Sydney and Brisbane by road, and also up the Blue Mountains to the botanical gardens up there. Saw not one bug, fly, mosquito, moth, butterfly, or splat on the windscreen in 3 weeks. It did see some bees in a farmer's hive. It was actually quite a frightening revelation, as most of this was in bush with no insecticides and not farmland.
Of course the bugs were not the kind anyone wants to find. Lived in same place for 30 years. Bee and wasp population way down. Hardly ever see lady bugs any more. Used to be so many huge monarch butterflies you couldn't count them during their migration. Now one or two very small ones every year. Even the grasshoppers are mostly gone. Dragonflies, I almost forgot the dragonflies. Flies, mosquitoes and every thing else declining. Even the gophers. And you are right. My bug scrapper lies in the corner unused for a long, long time. Silent Spring has come and gone. Hopefully our grandchildren can be the next Great Generation.
We still have to find what the connection is between what is causing this mass die-off of insects, and our health problems. I suspect the answer will be a real earth-shaking "Too Late" when we do find out, and we will need 100 years to get rid of whatever it is. These mass kill-offs are world wide and happening in the "pristine" forests of Africa (I have looked there too), and the rain forests of Mid and South America, so the air must be full of it. It may be more than insecticides and agricultural poisons. Perhaps the nano-plastic particles are part of the problem. Millions of tons of something!
Patrick, Now you even mention Br**it in a post on here! I am sick of hearing about it. LOL.
The thing that really strikes me here in Britain is our way of eating these days and the proliferation of fast food outlets. Our little county has just announced that there are going to be 45 more KFC outlets opening - goodness knows where they are going to put them all. At present there is just 1 but yes, it does always seem to have customers. We now have a Denny's too - amazing. and I do like a Denny's breakfast. You know I don't mind eating out now and again - though don't like either McDonald's or KFC but I do see people going there for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks. A fairly recent survey suggested that people think they have "cooked a meal" if they have warmed a ready meal up and made a salad to go with it! So, it is hardly surprising that diseases that we already know are affected by diet and/or weight including some types of cancer and Type 2 Diabetes is on the increase. It is a shame that the local councils are so desperate to get money from these companies that they will let them build these fast food outlets all over the place even in our little backwater.
Surveys have shown that we seem to be kicking both drinking and smoking on the head - though goodness knows what new statistics on lung disease may be around the corner from vaping.
I like to eat some red meat and some chicken but eat far less bulking up chilli con carne and spag bol. with fresh veg. We tend to take a third of a pound of minced (ground) lean steak and by adding vegetables can make 6 meals out of that much meat. We also do make these meat free as well by using lentils and beans instead of the meat.
I think the problems about eating more processed food and ready meals stems from the fact that for probably 2 generations now there have been fewer cookery lessons (if any) in schools so now we have children whose parents don't cook so they see no one cooking either at home or in schools. This is despite the fact that we watch lots of cookery programmes on the television - mad eh?
This is pure excrement, I grew up eating fried chicken at least twice a week and having cold leftover chicken for lunch the next day. That's four times per week. Other meals included pork chops, bacon, sausage, liver, brains, etc. I guess it finally got me with my PCA dx at age 80, so maybe the Brits are on to something. They are creating Chicexit. 🤠🍸🍸
“Hear, hear” is a shortened version of “hear ye, hear ye,” which goes back to British Parliament in the 1600s, if not earlier. The expression was — and is — used to draw attention to what someone is saying. It implies agreement with the speaker or, in modern times, the writer.
Diet is in there as one link in the causal chain for Pca. It’s probably not simple to prove. If you’re a Japanese man you’re much less likely to experience Pca while living in Japan than men in U.S. If you move to the U.S. your risk will increase to that of men here. In trying to pin down the reason for this, research has been inconclusive. It points to environmental causes, and what we put in our bodies including pesticides, herbicides and other pollutants can’t be good for us.
Some commonly used weed killers like 2-4-D cause cells to divide so quickly that the plant dies. Other breakdown products are estrogen mimics. As DavidHealth points out above, we have made our environment increasingly estrogenic, and toxic.
In this country, incidence of cancer of all kinds has steadily increased since the end of WWII when the chemistry of death, nerve gas, etc. was put to commercial use.
Some oncologists see cancer development as long process of “altered cell survival”. “Cancer cells are normal cells that distort physiologic stress responses to succeed under conditions of deprivation.” While the point of oncologist/author Robert Nagourney’s piece in the Wall Street Journal (7/23/19) was not centered on environmental causes for cancer, his discussion brings it up multiple times.
Changes in our micro environment are some things we can control among all that we have no control over. Diet is part of that. Even those pushing ketogenic diets don’t seem to recommend consuming lots of processed or hormone laden meat. My choice then is toward plant based organic food sources, if for no other reason that this was not my approach as Pca developed within me.
Another quick aside, why is it that so many plant derived compounds differentially kill cancer cells while not affecting normal cells? Perhaps all of the forces that would tear apart an organism before it had a chance to reproduce are similar for all life. Many plants have evolved to grow in the one spot where their seed germinates. Having no option of flight, their fight has been biochemical and the nuanced and complex reaction of our cells to their chemistry is another example of how all life is connected and interdependent- lucky for us we’re not in it alone.
You make a valid point - if you are on ADT it will protect you to a certain extent because the Androgen receptors are blocked, so chicken laced with pseudo-estrogens may be OK! The logical extension of this is to put all men onto ADT to prevent getting prostate cancer in the first place (or simply to render foul meat harmless)?
I feel simple greed in the chicken industry examples that is rushing to market even a day early by type of chicken feed and chemicals to add on sellable pounds is the main cause of a lot of our fast food woes. It's hard to blame a company for making more money and it is hard not to if you have any kind of cancer.
Are there any studies comparing home grown chicken to commercially raised?
We've cut out most meats, dairy, wheat, and fish, etc. Probably too late too help now. I think I'll have a combo pizza with friends tonight and just enjoy it then back to the gruel tomorrow.
However, chicken does have relatively high levels of estrogen, which is somewhat of a mystery. This article notes that the estrogen may be coming from soy included in chicken feed. I wonder if this is the poultry industry's way of adding hormones without breaking the law.
Of course, most chicken in the US is stuffed with antibiotics, and most chicken is also stuffed with bacteria like salmonella, e. coli, staph, etc. Some of these strains are resistant to antibiotics. And those bacteria are found even in organic chicken.
Well... if the risk is high... then I am ( excuse the pun) " dead meat".... I can no longer concern myself with the plethora of things that are associated with cancer... it's simply too much work. I absolutely cannot afford to be an " organic " vegan.. and one of the few pleasures left in life is eating what I truly like.... Here we are confronted once again with " what's the purpose of prolonging life if you are deeply dissatisfied with the life you are prolonging.... Depressive as it sounds.... I'd gladly bow out of this whole mess if there were laws that allowed people with cancer to avoid the whole of many years of treatment and expense and limitations on functioning.... Don't want to deal with it..... Life is WAY too compromised.... Happy to live my 70 years and say goodby..... and yes....I certainly recognize that there are many who do not at ALL feel this way....wish I were one of them..
I have certainly have had similar thoughts and I am only (only?) 60 because I don't want to bring my family down that road with me. If the quality of life is terrible, what's the point of having the treatments that last until I die? However, I hope that is not your condition and that you are experiencing depression that can be overcome.
Finding a local PCa support group can help and I have also seen a mental health therapist when I needed to. Exercise also helps mood swings (if you are able). You should be able to connect with an exercise training program through your oncologist or if you are not going to a medical center, you may be able to find the closest medical center and they can hook you up with a suitable program. Working out with other cancer patient has been shown to be useful for mutual moral support.
At any rate, I believe that life is worth living, even with sacrifices when you feel good enough to get out of bed in the morning (most days - doesn't have to be everyday) and being with someone who cares about you and you can talk to. If life is truly miserable without hope of it getting better, than I would personally reconsider my options with my family, primary care doctor and oncologist. With a few exceptions, I would choose to stay for as long as I can to see people I love and try new things but I will definitely cheat every now and then on the diet! You do have to enjoy being here and sometime breaking the rules is required.
Another uplifting bit of news is that I went to the Pacific NW Prostate Cancer Conference in Portland this past weekend and found out that a beer or two per day may actually help fight cancer! (Not sure if they made up the "fight cancer" part but it is at least not discouraged).
I do hope you have people to talk to and you are getting good advice. I wish you bright days and smooth sailing! Always feel free to post here and talk to people who understand and care.
I fully understand your reasoning and don't question it.... my circumstances are a bit different in that I WAS a Therapist for most of my working years and know all the advice I would give to others....... I just simply have NO desire to live life as a eunuch unable to do the things that used to bring me joy... Friends and family have moved away I have limited funds that are going to be diverted to treating this damnable disease further compromising quality of life.... Not being melodramatic here... just really do NOT want to travel this road..... not enough happy to make up for the sad..... that's not apt to change... BTW... no offense intended to your sound advice... its clearly well intended and I appreciate it.
Knowing your circumstances better, I can understand your desires better. I don't know what state you live in but some have "Right to Die" laws. I live in Oregon which is one of those states. It requires two doctors to agree to this which can be difficult to find but they are out there. Your primary care or others may be able to give you some names. Perhaps that's a route for you. The stories I have read from care givers and some oncologists of the end-of-life stage for PCa patients sounds like it can be awful.
Given that, I might opt for that approach. I don't know if any family or friends might return to assist you in this or if you even want them to be there but it is always good to have someone with you that you know and cares about you.
I hope you will be able to do what you want and to do in the way you wish. May you have calm and peace in your journey. All the best to you.
Not to belabor this point... but it's hard to get people who are life oriented to understand that I have no desire to even LIVE this " journey"...irrespective of whether I still have some health left..... Right to die laws require one to be far enough along to qualify for Hospice care ( ie... generally 6 months left to live) big DEAL!!..... I ( and others) want choice over when we can opt out...and this is WELL before Right to die laws would kick in.... Just being alive, for some of us, is not enough when the near entirety of ones life is taken up with doctors visits, medications, scans, tests, side effects from medications and worrying daily what the next scan/test if going to reveal... My object would be to be GONE well before QOL is all but destroyed.... not simply when I am already 3/4 dead. Yes... I'm in favor of voluntary euthanasia but current laws are woefully deficient in terms of allowing people control over the quality of their lives..... the " only god should decide" school still appears to hold sway even in the subconscious minds of those who are no longer religiously observant.... That said...thank you for your comments..... No need to respond... I just wanted to get this off my chest...
It looks like the choline from eggs/chicken can cause PCa progression, and HCA's from cooking any meat can as well. I just eat 3 organic eggs a week for the lutein needed to lower risk of macular degeneration. I eat organic chicken about every other week, and pressure cook it. Damn complicated!
"In this study, we examined intake of red meat, poultry, and eggs in relation to risk of lethal prostate cancer among men free of diagnosed cancer as of 1994.
Men who consumed 2.5 or more eggs per week had an 81% increased risk of lethal prostate cancer compared with men who consumed less than 0.5 eggs per week (HR: 1.81; 95% CI: 1.13–2.89; Ptrend: 0.01). In the case-only survival analysis, we observed 123 events during 19,354 person-years. There were suggestive, but not statistically significant, positive associations between postdiagnostic poultry (HR ≥ 3.5 vs. <1.5 servings per week: 1.69; 95% CI: 0.96–2.99; Ptrend: 0.07) and postdiagnostic processed red meat (HR ≥ 3 vs. <0.5 servings per week: 1.45; 95% CI: 0.73–2.87; Ptrend: 0.08) and risk of progression of localized prostate cancer to lethal disease. In conclusion, consumption of eggs may increase risk of developing a lethal form of prostate cancer among healthy men."
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Career after PCa diagnosis?
PCa/Treatments and Immune System
Interesting statement regarding PCa
PCa with Bone mets in femur 
