Red and Processed Meat, Poultry, Fish and Egg Intakes and Cause-Specific and All-Cause Mortality Among Men With Non-Metastatic PCa.

[pjoshea13]

New study below [1]

I anticipate a spirited food fight over this.

First, it is important to note that:

"No associations were seen for prostate cancer-specific mortality, except that higher post-diagnosis unprocessed red meat intake was associated with lower risk."

However:

"Higher red and processed meat, and lower poultry intakes either before or after prostate cancer diagnosis were associated with higher risk of all-cause mortality."

So, a weekly porterhouse steak [2] may lower the risk of death from PCa while increasing it elsewhere. No idea if there is a net loss or gain, but think of the QoL! LOL.

-Patrick

[1] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/321...

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev

2020 Mar 4[Online ahead of print]

Red and Processed Meat, Poultry, Fish and Egg Intakes and Cause-Specific and All-Cause Mortality Among Men With Non-Metastatic Prostate Cancer in a US Cohort

Ying Wang 1 , Eric J Jacobs 2 , Roma A Shah 2 , Victoria L Stevens 2 , Ted Gansler 2 , Marjorie L McCullough 2

Affiliations collapse

Affiliations

1 Behavioral and Epidemiology Research Group, American Cancer Society [e-mail].

2 Behavioral and Epidemiology Research Group, American Cancer Society.

PMID: 32132146 DOI: 10.1158/1055-9965.EPI-19-1426

Abstract

Background: Research on the relationship of meat, fish and egg consumption and mortality among prostate cancer survivors is limited.

Methods: In the Cancer Prevention Study-II Nutrition Cohort, men diagnosed with non-metastatic prostate cancer between baseline in 1992/1993 and 2015 were followed for mortality until 2016. Analyses of pre- and post-diagnosis intakes of red and processed meat, poultry, fish, and eggs included 9,286 and 4,882 survivors, respectively. Multivariable-adjusted relative risks (RRs) and 95% confidence intervals (CIs) were estimated using Cox proportional hazards models.

Results: A total of 4,682 and 2,768 deaths occurred during follow-up in pre- and post-diagnosis analyses, respectively. Both pre- and post-diagnosis intake of total red and processed meat were positively associated with all-cause mortality (quartile 4 vs 1: RR=1.13, 95% CI:1.03-1.25, P-trend = 0.02; RR=1.22, 95% CI:1.07-1.39, P-trend = 0.03, respectively), and both pre- and post-diagnosis poultry intake were inversely associated with all-cause mortality (quartile 4 vs 1 RR=0.90, 95% CI: 0.82-0.98, P-trend = 0.04; RR=0.84, 95% CI: 0.75-0.95, P-trend = 0.01, respectively). No associations were seen for prostate cancer-specific mortality, except that higher post-diagnosis unprocessed red meat intake was associated with lower risk.

Conclusions: Higher red and processed meat, and lower poultry intakes either before or after prostate cancer diagnosis were associated with higher risk of all-cause mortality.

Impact: Our findings provide additional evidence that prostate cancer survivors should follow the nutrition guidelines limiting red and processed meat consumption to improve overall survival. Additional research on the relationship of specific meat types and mortality is needed.

Copyright ©2020, American Association for Cancer Research.

***

[2] bonappetit.com/recipe/perfe...

[Max135]

Many thanks for the post Patrick. It makes me crazy from time to time.....

[Mikeski]

Haha Love it! 🥩

[Claud68]

It's very interesting. Thanks for this post pjoshea13.

I yet thought about this because all men from Argentina due to their enormous steak consumption should have died very quickly of prostate cancer.

[westof]

Hmm... I just polished off a 5oz Filet Mignon (medium rare and pan fried, per Chef Ramsey's instructions).

My only concern about my impending mortality, is that I may choke to death while wolfing it down! 😢

Best

[Hidden in reply to westof]

But then they could say "but he died doing something he loved!"

[westof in reply to Hidden]

Hmm... Or they could say, "but he died doing something with his lover".

With deepest affection to my " Darling wife of 46 years".

Best

[LearnAll]

Ignore,,,No comment.

[Schwah in reply to LearnAll]

Why ignore ? The group (and I)

Always appreciates other opinions. It’s clearly a moving target so the more info

Available to help us make choices, the better.

Schwah

[Hidden]

Steak & eggs with a beer to start the day? I'm in.

[westof in reply to Hidden]

Hmm... On Sunday morning and only on Sundays; I have a half a can of corned beef hash and mix it with 2 eggs over lightly (I know, it sounds disgusting) and I wash it down with a few beers!

Hmm... only 36 hours to go!

Wait, clocks go forward (make that 35 hours)!

Best

[DarkEnergy in reply to westof]

Holy guacamole epic catastrophic gastrointestinal phenomenon, Batman!

[westof in reply to DarkEnergy]

LOL, however, only on Sunday's ( I need to dull my senses to prepare for the morning news shows!)😂

Best

[dockam in reply to westof]

My guilty pleasure is corned beef hash and a couple of sunny side up eggs, maybe with a Bloody Mary tho

[Hidden in reply to dockam]

Whoa! Breakfast of champions!

[Hidden]

I'd love to see a good study comparing PrC mortality for keto vs. plant based vs. a "general" good diet (30/40/30 with 10+ servings fruit/veggies).

[tallguy2]

Thanks for posting this. I still enjoy a good steak about once a week. And my red wine every night...

[Hidden]

At this point in my advanced prostate cancer journey, I'm not about to deprive myself of anything I enjoy. Quality of life is everything now.

[tallguy2 in reply to Hidden]

Amen! I agree 100%.

[Fanger1]

Just serving Filet Mignon with brussel sprouts, all in moderation. Be Well, Eat Well😺

[Hidden in reply to Fanger1]

Yeah, I used to say "everything in moderation", but now I see that my cancer's philosophy is "nothing in moderation".

It's making me rethink that philosopsy. Killing me softly with moderation.

[Schwah]

Is that for religious or health reasons or both?

Schwah

[TommyTV]

We’re all gonna die! Don’t eat anything! But then we’re all gonna die!

Just eat fish, but it’s full of Mercury now apparently, so we’re all gonna die! I’ve managed to get to 70 with fish only passing my lips twice in my entire life. Once at 3 years old, nearly died, second at primary school at 5, nearly died. Probably why I got PCa... Or not. Who knows?

[ck722]

Unprocessed meats good, processed bad. Old news. Processed meats are loaded with nitrates, not a carcinogen but when eaten immediately convert to nitrites that are cancer-causing.

Not eating food with a paragraph of unpronounceable chemicals and plant life void of pesticides might be a good thing from the standpoint of keeping cancer at bay. Could be wrong here but if it kills bugs weeds and moulds, how can it be good for you? My3 centavos.

[pjoshea13 in reply to ck722]

Probably the phosphates. Inhibits active vitamin D formation.

-Patrick

[KingNeptune]

PCA must’ve been what was meant with the phrase ‘Death by a thousand cuts.’ I’ve had all my ‘boy’ parts cut out and removed, destroying my libido and much of my strength (even though I workout like a banshee). I was raised on poor people’s food, lower cuts of meat, lots of potatoes and grits (maybe that’s why I have PCA?). Outside of family, food is one of the last QOL I have left. It seems that a large number of articles I read are telling me I should be eating rabbit food. I say ‘F’ that, God gave me canines for a reason. Just my opinion.

[Hidden in reply to KingNeptune]

i agree.

[Hidden in reply to KingNeptune]

Go canine. Each to their own .

[Hidden]

I find it amazing how people focus on miniscule risks, emphasizing the increase rather than the overall risk. Yes, if you buy two lottery tickets you are twice as likely to win.

At the same time, people think nothing of getting into their cars and driving when that increases their risk of death much more significantly. Fear is not rational.

[Currumpaw in reply to Hidden]

Hey gregg57!

For the majority of the men on here cancer isn't a thing that might happen. That was how it was before. Now it is that cancer has happened and most are trying to prevent recurrence, stabilize it or put it in remission.

Our lottery number already came up! We weren't winners.

Currumpaw

[Hidden in reply to Currumpaw]

People will sometimes say to me, "Don't eat that, it can cause cancer" I just smile and say, "Yeah, no problem. Thanks!"

[Hotrod65]

My philosophy when it comes to PCA dieting is "Heart Healthy", avoid what we already know is not good for you, ate this way my whole life "Mediterranean diet"and still ended up with most lethal form of PC.

[Currumpaw]

Hey pjoshea13!

You have done it again!

Okay--I'll enter the discussion.

The regular supermarket beef has omega 6's. Grass fed, free range beef has conjugated linoleic acid which inhibits cancer and helps keep one's weight in check.

Be wary of a package that is labeled "Grass Fed". How long were the cattle grass fed? The last three months of their lives? When I ate meat I ate shoulder steak almost exclusively as it is the leanest cut. The difference between supermarket shoulder steak and the beef from free range cattle that do cow things like run in a pasture, play, fight and procreate is quite pronounced. The supermarket beef is "tender" compared to the free range. Bring your teeth when eating the free range! It tastes a little different too.

Currumpaw

[Garbonzeaux]

Do you eat Ezekiel bread, usually referred to around my household as "The Holy Toast"?

[Hidden in reply to Garbonzeaux]

I’ve lived on it five years now. I love it .

[Garbonzeaux in reply to Hidden]

Yeah, so do I. Toasted.

[Hidden in reply to Garbonzeaux]

👍 yep . They even have raisin bread and tortillas . All good.

[vandy69]

I treat myself to a steak the night before chemo. Have had 18 steaks, so 2 more on current round. We share the dining experience with my sister-in-law and her husband. Family means a lot in this journey.

Best Wishes. Never Give In.

Mark, Atlanta

[j-o-h-n]

All of the comments have given me "food for thought"...Thanks 50-0-50

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 03/07/2020 12:51 PM EST

[Claud68]

I wonder who alleged that red meat is dangerous for prostate cancer, and why? And eggs?

[pjoshea13 in reply to Claud68]

It is often said that men with PCa should avoid saturated fat. There are a number of saturated fats - the distinction is in the length of the carbon chain. We are usually not told which are the dangerous sat-fats. Sometimes it's a code term for animal fat.

Stearic acid is an 18-carbon sat-fat. It is solid at room temperature. You can make candles out of it, so it must be bad for us? But it has been shown to be heart-neutral. Perhaps this is due to rapid conversion to oleic acid in the body. Oleic acid is the so-called healthy fat in olive oil. It has 18 carbons too. It is almost fully saturated but has a single double-bond at the halfway point, making it an omega-9. It bends in the middle, so is liquid at room temperature.

Americans seem to have a fixation with fat, but we need to look further when red meat is tagged as a risk factor. First there is the cooking method. Burgers & steaks on the grill develop carcinogenic agents. Secondly, we tend to eat twice the protein (or more) when we eat a tasty burger or steak. Beef is high in phosphorus, which might inhibit the production of hormonal vitamin D. Third, we have the possibility of other lifestyle factors which go with heavy red meat consumption.

Eggs & red meat have been the target of the diet police for decades. The primary reason for excluding eggs with PCa is the choline content. However, some choline is essential & most foods are low. A daily egg is not going to be a threat because of its choline.

-Patrick

[Claud68 in reply to pjoshea13]

Thanks Patrick for your reply.

But now the new study above found that even when you eat some unhealthy red meat you don't have more risk to die of prostate cancer...???

[pjoshea13 in reply to Claud68]

Yes. Is there anything distinctive about the population studied? More educated? More inclined towards moderation? More health conscious? Who knows?

"The Cancer Prevention Study II Nutrition Cohort was established in 1992 and was designed to investigate the relation between diet and other lifestyle factors and exposures and the risk of cancer, mortality, and survival. The cohort includes over 84,000 men and 97,000 women who completed a mailed questionnaire in 1992. New questionnaires are sent to surviving cohort members every other year to update exposure information and to ascertain new occurrences of cancer; a 90% response rate was achieved for follow-up questionnaires in 1997 and 1999. Reported cancers are verified through medical records, registry linkage, or death certificates. The cohort is followed actively for all cases of incident cancer and for all causes of death."

We need more sophistication in epidemiological studies. With better understanding men here might stop beating themselves up over diet & concentrate on other aspects of disease management.

-Patrick

[Claud68 in reply to pjoshea13]

Maybe it's more important to consider that by eating red meat and eggs one tends to have high bad cholesterol levels and anotherone not? With the same diet in a family the members have often big differences. And this could link to the positive role of statins and prostate cancer.

[Rfs1975]

Any thoughts on "Game meat", Bison & Venison ? Both are very lean in comparison to beef

[pjoshea13 in reply to Rfs1975]

Wild game meat isn't high in omega-6. The only bison & venison I can buy in NC is farmed. I don't know what they are fed, but I suspect that big operations use a lot of grain (corn, soy). And bison may be finished in feed lots. If it doesn't say "grass-fed" expect high omega-6.

D'artagnan sells free-range New Zealand venison. Don't know if grain is used during winter months.

I know they are relatively lean, but that's not a concern on the Mediterranean diet (40% fat).

-Patrick

[Rfs1975]

Thanks Patrick

[Rfs1975]

Patrick, is there a specific diet you adhere to?

[Hidden]

Ezeikial bread “ Thou shall eat the sprouted grains” ! Not refined flour and sugar .