Not ever used marijuana but considering using Indica for relaxation and joint pain. Wine beer just adds calories.
Cannibis Use by Those on ADT? - Advanced Prostate...
Cannibis Use by Those on ADT?
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TEBozo
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Go for it. It's great in brownies, etc.
I've used it and can vouch for it's effectiveness, It is great for pain, very relaxing and really helps you sleep. Just have to watch out for that "couch lock". If possible, you want to use it toward the end of the day when you are not expecting to get a lot done. Indica = In-da-couch
Granddaddy Purple is my favorite Indica.
Try indica edibles. Edibles take longer for the effects to happen but last longer and no smoke tars in your lungs. Cannabis has a strong inclination to drive most people to eat .... and eat a lot. Eat it just before bedtime to minimize the hunger effects if necessary. you’ll still realize the benefits even the next morning.
Prostate cancer cells have extra cannabinoid receptors compared to non-cancerous prostate cells.
I have heard two health care professionals with large prostate cancer patient bases who say they have noticed that it appears in their patient populations that heavy cannabis use is associated with increased PCA aggressiveness. One was Dr. Snuffy Myers.
Oh crap. I’ve started using it in edibles every night to sleep. Now I’m re thinking that. Any links you can send ?
Schwah
Sorry no links. Just an lecture from Dr. Myers when I asked him about cannabis. And there was a speaker at last year's PCRI who made a comment about noticing that all his patients who make heavy use of cannabis seemed to have the most aggressive prostate cancer.
You can do a google search to confirm that prostate cancer has extra cannabinoid receptors... given that cannabinoids are important to many if not most feedback loops, you would expect that the extra receptors would do something one way or the other. Apparently in this instance they are doing the wrong thing.
I have been taking homemade whole leaf cannabis oil daily since my initial Gleason 9 diagnosis in June 2018. I take it at night when I don’t have to drive. I really like it and in fact this post was a real gut punch because my oil really helps with sleep breathing exercises and general well being....BUT, I have no evidence that it is doing the job that I want it to do. I have always been a little skeptical about it and now it seems time to “put it to the test.” So, when I have stabilized from my upcoming Lupron shot, I am going to try a month without oil. Will report.
Perhaps you can try to get frequent PSA tests and do a one person trial. See if there is any relationship between starting and stopping the cannabis and your PSA levels. Then post what you learn.
It does seem that one month off and one month on might be too short a time to test if the cannabis is stimulating the growth of the prostate cancer cells. Seems like 3 months might produce more accurate results.
I think that initially one month on one month off would be preferable, that way, I could conclude the study with a replication in a four month period.
yes, but one month may not be long enough for any effect to take place. Three months, with a PSA test once a month is enough time and enough data points to confirm what you are measuring is real.
I will keep you posted
I will too. PSA and T every month. Using an Indica strain. Planning on 1 puff no edibles.
And I will do no puffs no edibles. Will report in a month.
What you are doing is pretty important. It may be as close to a clinical study as we get on this forum.
Many major cancer treatment centers ( most ? ) like Sloan Kettering, Stanford and UCSF San Francisco have specialized “ pot doc’s “ who have massive programs that dispense marijuana to its cancer patients. This for everything from sleep aids, pain management , weight loss and much more. Marijuana has a well researched feminizing effect on men ( breast enlargement as one effect ) which probably is complimentary to adt treatment as well. At this point in time one would have to say that the use of cannabis in cancer treatment is medically professionally wide spread. You could certainly call any of the many ( most ? ) nationally acclaimed cancer treatment centers and speak to their cannabis doctor and or department . In any event always consult with your physician before you do any side meds or at least keep them in the loop. I go to famously conservative ( about pain meds and drugs ) Kaiser where I have a random urine test as part of my pain med contract. Even my conservative doctor says that marijuana use is fine if I think it helps. He also says not to rely upon any of the massive media hype that marijuana can cure cancer because scientific evidence doesn’t support that claim as of yet.
Google “ pot for the prostrate “ Harvard Medical , to see some of the current Spanish research that is finding cannabinoids that they claim actually specifically fight prostrate cancer. Like my doc says tho ... the clinical trials and additional research is still in the very early stages of investigation.
Petri dish experiments.
health.harvard.edu/mens-hea...
"Pot for prostate cancer?
"No — or, at least, not yet. It's a long, long way from the research laboratory to the bedside, and many hurdles lie ahead before marijuana is judged ready for the first clinical trials in human prostate cancer. Remember, too, that these experiments did not use marijuana itself, but purified cannabinoids derived from the plant. So while the research is interesting and encouraging, men who jump the gun and try to treat their prostates with marijuana are likely to see their hopes go up in smoke."
health.harvard.edu/mens-hea...
I guess people hear what they want to hear and not what they don't want to hear.
Where is Qanon when you need her.
Seems like I’m not getting this properly , dunno. Seems like you are claiming pot causes PCa to be more aggressive.. that’s what I’m hearing ... I’m saying that Most Major prostrate cancer centers prescribe it freely ,especially to PCa patients.
I don’t know anything about Dr. Meyers but current medical cancer treatment center practices seem to totally contradict that point of view. Just say’in.
Of course leaches and bleeding people were widespread standard acceptable medical practice as well .... seems kinda fickle doncha think.
Pot isn’t for everyone... your experiences may vary ... always check with your medical provider before you medicate yourself with anything . My provider says it’s ok for me.
Just put that giant doobie down and step away ...
"Major prostrate cancer centers prescribe it freely"
Evangelists are saying what they wish reality to be. LOL
By the way I am not saying it causes prostate cancer to turn aggressive. I am saying Dr. Myers saw that the heavy users among his patient population all seemed to have aggressive prostate cancer, and for that reason strongly discouraged me from experimenting with it.
He also expressed anger/contempt toward/for those of his patients that were disregarding his guidance on this subject.
lol .... I like the leaches part myself. I'm gonna send some in, instead of using pinchy tweezers ,to find where my genitals went and since leaches have long tails, maybe I'd be able to pull on them to pull my nads back out of my abdomen... hey !! just say'in ... might work ......... ewwwwwwwwwww ..... yikes ...
have a good one my friend ... you don ned no stink'in pot if you don wanna ( three Amigos ) ... thats a fact jack. it's all good , especially for guys like us. the fact that we are even here having this discussion is a good thing ....
best wishes buddy ....
"cancer treatment centers ( most ? ) like Sloan Kettering, Stanford and UCSF San Francisco have specialized “ pot doc’s “
Yeah sure. We are talking not about cancer. Nor about using it for pain relief or for appetite management etc.
We are talking about one specific type of cancer that happens to have extra cannabinoid receptors.
Only recently have the major medical centers been adopting protocols that Myers pioneered 10 to 15 years ago.
I am with Dr. Myers on this one, until he is proven wrong.
• in reply toSchwah
I would like to see the data on that. This sounds like speculation to me. It's like worrying that hospice patients might get addicted to morphine.
If it helps you with pain and sleep and you are not abusing it, I wouldn't worry about that. Many of things we are doing for treatments may cause problems in the long run, but we have to deal with what is happening now, not deal with what might happen later.
cesanon• in reply to
"It's like worrying that hospice patients might get addicted to morphine."
Sure, when I get to hospice I plan on using it for pain. But until then I think it wise to avoid cannabinoids.
Beware the munchies. Best to indulge after a meal and have some healthy snacks available. I second the motion on indica edibles for sleep. I like to try different strains that I can roll into a joint, usually hybrid and sometimes sativa. 3 or 4 puffs is all it takes.
I have great success with CBD full spectrum for pain and sleep. 100-200mg a day spread over 3-4 doses. THC lozenges marginally helps specific pain, head mostly, about 40mg a day.
Concerned about reading posts that say THC makes Pac MORE aggressive. What's up with that?
2Dee
• in reply to2dee
We're waiting to see the data on that. I suspect there is none.
cesanon• in reply to
Unfortunately, like many things regarding prostate cancer there is no good data. And disregarding laws on the subject there is unlikely to be any good data for a long time.
The reason is that each cannabis plant produces its own mix of over 100 different cannabinoids. In order to do a clinical study you need a standardized formulation.
And in order to do an FDA compliant study you need to test pretty much every possible combination of these active ingredients at multiple potencies.
Complex biological systems have their own logic. The wise course is unless there is evidence supporting the use of any particular medication, if you have prostate cancer you should pass on it unless you need it for something more serious than prostate cancer.
• in reply tocesanon
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
cesanon• in reply to
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
A dubious rational for engaging in needlessly risky behavior. People used that rational for smoking cigarettes for many years. There are many teenagers who are currently using that rational to justify unprotected sex.
So yeah sure, go ahead, you are a consenting adult.
"I have great success with CBD full spectrum for pain and sleep. "
I believe there is a lot of evidence back that up. Not so much evidence that it cures or treats prostate cancer.
If it promotes the health of healthy cells, why do so many users express such disbelief that it can't promote the health of cancer cells which have additional cannabinoid receptors? Actually that would support a conjecture that it would have an even stronger beneficial effect on prostate cancer cells.
It's disappointing to find such a useful pain suppressant with no side effects that I can discern not covered by insurance. Instead opiates are pushed freely with lots of negative side effects.
2Dee
Actually there is a generic called Marinol that is a single synthesized canabinoid. I believe it is approved for appetite management in cancer patients. But it is so cheap, at least the last time I checked, it is affordable without insurance coverage.
Plant extracts with in excess of 100 canabinoids will likely never be FDA approved because FDA compliant clinical trials for 3 or more active compounds are just way too expensive.
Thanks for the tip. How could I know which or possibly which mix of full spectrum CBD chemicals is working for me?
I don't have years to go through extensive trial and error. I'm already a year past my due date.
I just have to go with the simple facts that regardless of rhetoric it works for ME the way I take it.
Cost and getting dependable products are of great concern.
2Dee
No kidding. Can someone Google Snuffys lecture?
Snuffy never spoke publicly on this issue. But when I brought up the issue in a telephone consultation I got a stern lecture in a raised voice on the subject. When I next met with him face to face I discussed with him a second time where he explained in more detail his frustration with his pot worshiping patients who would not listen to his warnings.
There are no clinical trials one way or the other. But Dr. Myers has been so prescient on so many other issues, I just automatically go with what he has said until proven otherwise.
Shortly after I started my Whole Oil Regimen. I read about using it in suppositories. The big story about suppositories is that they do not produce any high. That really appealed to me because as a single,, I simply had too much to do with routine housekeeping duties plus researching, sourcing, and cooking up putative “cures”. I simply could not afford to be stoned all day.
I did not notice anything but a slow and steady increase in PSA during this time (which was before I started Casodex/Lupron. Then I read the following article extractcrafter.com/2017/05/.... In a nutshell this person who is an experienced “cook” made suppositories, used them and then had a blood test. The blood test revealed no THC in her blood. That was enough for me (anyone want to buy some suppository molds?), but if you read the comment section you will see an enormous resistance to this finding. I think the positive THC literature is full of such wishful thinking.
Be wary of anyone that says that "there are studies" that link cannabis to more aggressive anything without providing direct links. Making blanket statements regarding cause and effect probably say more about the physician's political leaning about the legalization of cannabis over anything else. I'll bet that the more appropriate wording should be that those with the most aggressive PCa find welcome pain relief with the use of cannabis.
Through personal experience I would agree that it's probably best to use edibles over inhaled delivery systems, but go lightly if you are new to using cannabis, when using edibles. You can get seriously stoned when eating cannabis, and the high lasts a long time, versus inhaling.
Personally, I use what's called a "one-hitter" that looks like a little fake cigarette that has a well in the end of a porcelain body. You just add a little bud in the end and take a single hit. Discreet and easy, usually comes with it's own case. I don't use edibles because they get me too high and the feeling stays with me a long time. I'll use a one hitter or vape pen and that's all I need. I prefer indica to sativa or hybrids because the sativa makes me paranoid. The indica is more for the body and works really well... Very relaxing and the pain diminishes rapidly. If on pain meds it tends to make them more effective, reducing the volume you need to take.
You can get serious munchies! Be careful.
If you can learn to you use cannabis responsibly, you'll wonder why it was ever illegal.
• in reply toV-Man
I just searched on this subject. From what I could see, it seems to me there is more evidence to support cannabis being harmful, than helpful to prostate cancer cells. While it certainly wouldn't be considered a treatment, saying that it makes prostate cancer more aggressive is an extraordinary claim and we for that we need extraordinary evidence.
The important thing to me is we have to make choices from what we have, not what would be ideal. If I'm trying control my pain and I look at what is available for that, cannabis looks like a good choice compared to opioids.
2dee• in reply to
Using CBD regularly I dropped from 8+ Norco a day and regularly reaching for more down to 2 a day for over 6 months now.
I have been unable to drop to 1 or zero Norco though so it's controlling some specific pain the CBD or THC is not.
To me, that is a really big deal. I can finally sleep some as well. I find nothing wrong with that except the non covered cost.
2Dee
"Be wary of anyone that says that "there are studies" that link cannabis to more aggressive anything without providing direct links."
Be wary of anything that is not supported by well designed clinical studies. Especially when promoted by "believers".
Qanon
I'm in 100% agreement... your "claim" is to red flag cannabis use in prostate ca because of increased receptors in prostate ca cells. There's no study or proof that shows taht it's harmful to use cannabis if you have prostate cancer. We're talking about an alternative to opioid use in controlling pain. Why not just leave it at that?
The claim is that Dr. Myers, with a practice limited to prostate cancer and approximately 1500 patients noticed an apparent link between those of his patients who reported self medicating with Cannabis, and his observation of aggressive forms of prostate cancer.
Correlation is not causation. But I think it's enough to provide one caution.
My personal experience with Cannabis is that it is not that good at pain suppression. Certainly not as effective as opioids.
So why would you risk a lot for a little.
I put it's use by informed prostate cancer patients as an indication that they are also suffering from the condition dysrationalty. Or perhaps similar to how adolescents rationalize unprotected sex.
Singularly, my point is that if someone with PC is suffering from pain and doesn't want to take high doses of opioids, they may want to consider using some cannabis as well, to reduce the amount of opioids they're consuming.
V-Man
Sure, but let's put this in context.
1. I was accused of not understanding someone in true pain.
2. If someone is undergoing high and intense levels of pain, why would they choose a weak indirect pain dis tractor over a potent pain killer? Especially when the risk of doing so could be even more highly escalated levels of pain in the not too distant future.
3. Someone with real intense pain - the kind that runs through you like lightning and/or puts you in a constant shudder. I don't see them being finicky about opioids.
4. Then again if they are using achy joints as an excuse to use cannabis recreationally, that it a bit more understandable. But then making whiny accusations against me, that reflects more on them than on me. And why risk a lot for a little. You really don't want to risk turning your cancer aggressive. When you die from prostate cancer as opposed to managing the disease until you die from some other cause, you are talking about real pain. It's a real bad way to go, Opioid dependency is nothing compared to it. There is no one on this board who is in the final stages of prostate cancer. The pain would prevent them from focusing enough to compose or post messages.
5. Keep in mind we are not talking about appetite management while undergoing chemo. We are talking about pain management.
6. Why would someone risk a lot for a little: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysra...
"You can get serious munchies! Be careful."
Thanks for the important warning. It is especially important for prostate cancer patients to be wary of getting the munchies.
I love my Cannabis oil for many reasons, but if Prostate Cancer Cells have extra Cannabinol receptors that seems like a big red flag for anyone trying to actually kill, slow down, incapacitate the beast.
Definitely helps with pain and sleep. You can try edibles if you don't want to smoke it.
adios
I have stage 4. And I have chronic pain from another condition.
Cannabis moderates pain I guess. There certainly appears to be substantial evidence to that effect.
From personal experience I suspect it just distracts from pain as opposed to moderating it.
If you have real pain, there are more potent alternatives. And if it is bone pain there are alternative treatments.
The logic of going first to cannabis seems to me driven more by some form of ideology than by rational self interested decision making. Most of its proponents seem driven by some form of prideful evangelism. Sort of like a reversion to high school cannabis evangelism.
Personally when the pain gets too much for me that it outweighs other considerations, my plan is to go into hospice, which at that point, I don't much care about long term. That is when I will start using cannabis. And it will be after or in conjunction with more potent alternatives.
By the way, once the prostate cancer starts chewing away at your bones, the pain you have now will be like nothing. When you get there you will not be able to concentrate long enough to post messages on a forum. That is not a condition I want to hasten on. I want to die from something else before I get there.
Hence, why I personally eschew use of cannabis until I enter hospice. And why I am dubious of evangelists attempting to convert others to a belief system that requires one to believe a powerful medication can have no negative side effects. The world is not so simple.
You have a valid point. Unfortunately that is all that I have.
Though the increased number of cannabinoid receptors is easy enough. Someone else posted this link. It confirms that prostate cancer has extra cannabinoid receptors:
health.harvard.edu/mens-hea...
But don't forget the warning in that same article as well: "Pot for prostate cancer?
No — or, at least, not yet. It's a long, long way from the research laboratory to the bedside, and many hurdles lie ahead before marijuana is judged ready for the first clinical trials in human prostate cancer. Remember, too, that these experiments did not use marijuana itself, but purified cannabinoids derived from the plant. So while the research is interesting and encouraging, men who jump the gun and try to treat their prostates with marijuana are likely to see their hopes go up in smoke."
Had a bottle of Merlot last night.....before and during dinner...felt great so went for a 1 mile jog with Gracie...she did not want to stop....so we kept going!!!
Excellent point!
I approach cannabis use from a non-curative point of view. I use it to control moderate pain (hips mostly, some back pain) and to get to sleep. Having had cannabis starting my junior year at college, I learned a little about how to handle it.
I kept up my use when it was available, but many years went by when it wasn't. After I was diagnosed in 2011, I had an RP in 2012. I was T2cN1M0, and the cancer has been described by several urologists and oncologists as particularly aggressive. The team checked my PSA after the surgery, and it was 1.19. Not non-existant. So I went on Lupron. Back then, not a lot of choices (2012). On lupron I quickly dropped to < 0.01. My Dr. said try a vacation - and it failed badly. I was back above 1.0 2 months after the start of the vacation. and at about 10.2 after 4 months. The put me back on ADT, Trelstar this time. I dropped me back down to undetectable.
I read about RSO and CBD and THC and all that stuff, but legal medical marijuana was not yet available. In 2016 we moved to Florida (Pensacola). They voted MMJ into law in 2017 and after the state legislature messed with the very clear constitutional amendment, it became available in my area. I knew that RSO did nothing curative. CBD did nothing curative. THC did nothing curative. But, each in there own way helped with the pain and insomnia, etc. I started with street MJ, then went to the legal MMJ when I could. I learned to use RSO ratio products just before going to bed, and then Indica as I read in bed (no danger from vaping like there is from smoking in bed) until I was ready to turn the light out. I did a lot of experimenting and for me (and me only) using a RSO Ratio product (OCO) at 5:3 (CBD:THC) I would lose a lot of my anxiety and stress quickly. Then I switch to GDP (Indica) and vape that until I can't read anymore. It is pretty quick, and I find it has no lasting effects in the morning. The GDP just brings me down very smoothly and quietly, and I do love the stuff and its effect.
I have been doing MMJ for about 18 months or so. I have to see a MMJ physician every 7 months to make sure I am doing ok. No one, not the MMJ doctors, the Trulieve outlets staff, my Uro, my Mo, nor my PCP said a single bad word about it. I never believed it would cure me. I just hoped it would let me live more comfortable, and it has. I get a very restful sleep, and am almost pain free all day. I wake up stress free and with little anxiety. The MMJ has been good for me.
In addition to researching on the Internet, I read 2 books on MMJ. Both basically said, if used properly, a PCA patient can live a happy life until hell breaks loose. I have found this to be true. I do NOT want to get hooked on opiates - at least not yet. So for me, MMJ is the way to go for now. Maybe my 30 years of on and off usage of MJ made my PCA more aggressive - I will never know. But I do know that after 7 1/2 years post RP, I am still undetectable. I am happy with my use of MMJ. If YOU are afraid of it, stay away. You don't need more stress. Otherwise give it a try. My long 2 centavos worth.
Marshall
Am using a heavy Indica blend; vaporizing Not smoking) at night because of Lupron and Zytiga body aches. I have 3 more months and then I an DONE! Works but I have to go back for one last puff because it wears off
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