Cannibis/Rick Simpson Oil?

[6357axbz]

Does anyone here believe Cannibis oil can cure PCa? There are a number of convincing videos of testimonials that these individuals cured their prostate cancer by taking large doses, notably a number by Dennis Hill, an ex-MD Anderson biochemist.

[Pkhughes]

Good Morning, I have been trying RSO for about a month now. I have a stage 4 grade 5 PC and have been through it all so far. I don't know if it works but I have not heard anyone say it don't work. The local gentleman you turned me on to it seems to think it does and has seen it help 12 people with all kinds of cancer. The out of pocket cost can be a little scary but maybe, who knows for sure. I would be glad to answer any questions if I can, God Bless.

[Wassersug in reply to Pkhughes]

Dear Pkhughes,

I rarely post, but two things in you wrote are worth comment. You said, "I have been trying RSO for about a month now....I don't know if it [RSO] works but I have not heard anyone say it don't work." You have a problem here with sampling bias. The folks, who tried it and were not cured, aren't around to tell you that it didn't work. They are died instead.

Also, you wrote that, "The out of pocket cost can be a little scary...." You need not be scared of the cost since there is published research showing that placebo effects correlate with the cost, If the placebos are very expensive they are more likely to be effective.

[Pkhughes in reply to Wassersug]

Actually someone could have posted that the oil did not work before they died or a family member could have posted something after the funeral. I don't know anything about the cost of a cannabis placebo I will have to take your word for it. After fighting my fight for three years paying out a couple thousand more for something like this is scary. I just replied to someone who is going through the same thing I am and looking for answers.

[Wassersug in reply to Pkhughes]

There are options with evidence of efficacy, but Simpson's oil is not one of them. Are you living near any site doing a Lu-177 trial?

The relationship of cost to efficacy is true of placebos in general and not specific to cannabinoids.

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to Wassersug]

Which options other than Simpson’s oil have efficacy?

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to Pkhughes]

Hello. I’d like to make my own. How do you prepare it into a form that can be used rectally? Do you put it in gelatin capsules?

[Darryl Partner]

Here are posts about Rick Simpson healthunlocked.com/advanced...

[pjoshea13]

I am wary of reported "cures". I remember the site that Clifford Beckwith had for the Budwig protocol. He had stage 4 PCa & said that Budwig had cured him. I don't doubt that he was sincere, but he failed to mention that he was also on ADT. When ADT failed, so did Budwig.

I was wondering what happened to Dennis Hill? Perhaps someone out there knows? I came across a blog where the author had been tracking him (up to 2014). I have lifted the section on Hill, below. (I can't vouch for its accuracy.)

-Patrick

anishinaabecancerjourney.we...

"In 2010, bio-chemist Dennis Hill was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Depending on the website, Hill’s cancer was Stage III or Stage IV. Oddly, the source of the information is Hill himself. Hill describes his cancer as aggressive with minor metastatic lesions.

On one website[11], Hill provides his medical records. Two records from 2010 clearly show that Hill was diagnosed with prostate cancer. A third record from 2011 indicates his tumor is benign. Hill doesn’t provide a record of his staging, a record that would be part of his initial diagnosis. We can only take his word for it. The differentiation of staging is critical. In Stage I and II, the cancer is limited to the prostate. In Stage III, the cancer advances outside the prostate and affects seminal vesicles. In Stage IV, the cancer spreads beyond the seminal vesicles and may include the bladder, rectum, pelvic wall, lymph nodes, and bones.

In a journal entry for September 24th, 2010, Hill writes: “As for the future; maybe I will decline two months of radiation that is planned to begin next month.”[12]

Three months later, Hill writes: “During the prostate exam yesterday, the urologist, surprised at the shrinkage of the prostate and absence of pain on examination, said, ‘It’s hardly there any more, compared to the enlarged fully involved tumor we saw a few months ago.’ We will do another biopsy of the prostate in a couple of weeks in order to get cytological examination of the tissue and to evaluate the presence or absence of adenocarcinoma. At this point I’m feeling optimistic. But we will not know anything until we see the pathology report of the biopsy. Of course we ran a PSA, which was essentially zero. This means that the immune system is not seeing any cancer activity. Same as three months ago.”

Thus, according to his timeline, in September, Hill says radiation is planned, although he states that “maybe” he will decline it. Three months later, on January 12, 2012, his tumor has shrunk. Why? Or more specifically, how? The logical answer would be that Hill did in fact have radiation since radiation is used to shrink prostate cancer. If Hill had used cannabinoid therapy to shrink his tumor, he would have mentioned it in his journal entry for January 12.

In 2012, Hill’s cancer returned or, more specifically, metastasized. Hill wrote in his journal: “Yes, I was shocked when the urologist gave me the pathology report from my prostate biopsy: aggressive prostate adenocarcinoma. The good news was that it had not yet spread to bone or other tissues, apparently. But unfortunately later found that the cancer did get loose and invaded the seminal vesicles and maybe to the bladder, making it a stage three adenocarcinoma.”

Spreading to his seminal vesicles would make Hill’s cancer Stage III, spreading to his bladder would make it Stage IV.

In 2013, Hill pushed the panic button: “Over the course of six months of cannabinoid treatment, I had two injections of Lupron, an androgen inhibitor that does not kill cancer.”

Hill adds: “Lupron is an androgen inhibitor used to slow the growth of cancer that needs androgen to grow. The effects are what you would expect having no testosterone. I didn’t mind taking it at all, in fact it was interesting seeing what like is like with no testosterone.”

Lupron (also called Leuprolide) is a prescription drug used for advanced prostate cancer. According to WebMD: “Leuprolide is used to treat advanced prostate cancer in men. It is not a cure. Most types of prostate cancer need the male hormone testosterone to grow and spread. Leuprolide works by reducing the amount of testosterone that the body makes. This helps slow or stop the growth of cancer cells and helps relieve symptoms such as painful/difficult urination.”

Hill has also written two papers to shore up his cannabis cure claims – “Cancer-specific Cytotoxicity of Cannabinoids” and “The Human Endocannabinoid System Meets the Inflammatory Cytokine Cascade.” Neither paper has been peer-reviewed, although numerous cancer cure and medical marijuana websites cite and quote Hill’s papers as if they were scientific-based studies.

Hill’s anecdotal research papers are drawn from peer-reviewed studies that don’t conclusively prove that cannabis “cures” cancer and that more research is needed. Hill, however, uses the information to buttress his own formula for a cancer “cure.” Working in tandem with Rick Simpson’s cannabis oil recipe, Hill promotes a balanced formula of THC and CBD cannabinoids to effectuate a “cure” for cancer. According to Hill, THC, the psychoactive agent of cannabis, kills localized cancer cells, and CBD, the non-psychoactive agent of cannabis, kills cancer cells that have metastasized.

At one of his several websites, Hill dispenses what can only be termed as medical “advice” to people who want to integrate a cannabis oil regimen to treat their cancer. There are a number of heart wrenching requests from people with spouses, loved ones, and cancer victims with Stage IV cancers. With Stage IV, the cancer has metastasized and spread to other organs. Hill knows his claim of CBD killing metastasized cancer cells has no medical basis. To those for whom CBD has obviously failed, Hill’s advice turns toward palliative care and he urges the dying to continue to use cannabis oil to ease the suffering.

Hill’s response to a woman whose husband used cannabis oil for prostate cancer, but whose treatment failed with the cancer progressing to terminal cancer, epitomizes the failure of Hill’s cancer “cure”: “Wonderful that you take the oil daily to your husband. It always helps in some way, and is never harmful. This is a very sweet way to care for him. Perhaps we cannot know the outcome, but the caring is very important. ~Dennis.”[12] Hill’s response is odd considering it is from a man who claims that cannabis kills cancer."

[6357axbz]

Lulu (love your puppy, I have a beagle that is 28 pounds of pure love, as long as we watch his diet cause he’s a major chow hound!)

Did you go thru the RSO cure, I. E., consumed a total of 60 grams at a rate of 1 gram per day of full extract Cannibis oil? All evidence in my personal experience is that this will not cure mPCa. I totatally buy into that it can relieve symptoms and add some joy to life but as a serious cure, I don’t think so and I would strongly advise fellow patients not to forgo main stream, conventional, treatment in hopes of a miracle cure from pot.

[ck722]

Nice write up PJ. From a lot of reading cannabis appears to be useful or assistive along with traditional practices. Post prostatectomy I my PSA is .023. In June I retest. Right now I am using cannabis rectally 2X a day for the "no high" effect with no other treatment. Orally the stuff (home grown and made oil) will get you high as a kite for a day and a half. Hate the "high", debilitating and makes you useless. You can't drive high so you are homebound.

Stay alive. Use it with regular treatment. The word " cure" can not be used unless you are cancer free for 5 years. From the write-up the cancer was not cured but it did have a profound positive action on his cancer so there is hope.

Further reading:

medium.com/@ericgeisterfer/...

And:

greenbridgemed.com/blog/rec...

[rbtbrsrd]

This article is about breast cancer but I used the same methodology to treat my prostate cancer after surgery. I tried to produce oil with the greatest variety of compounds. RALP July 2009 P3b N0 MX. Last PSA<.006

projectcbd.org/medicine/thc...

[ck722]

<.006 is wonderful and very encouraging rbtbrsrd. You are in the "Golden Zone", you have time to experiment. Continued use of cannabis might mop up any undetectable mets.

[Chugach]

Did you have to make it or were you able to buy it? If available for purchase which state and at what cost?

[rbtbrsrd in reply to Chugach]

From seed to oil. I grow true organic using local materials and worm tea made from kitchen and garden scraps. After seeing organic heirloom tomatoes in the store going for $7.99 a pound I started growing my own food. I really got into indoor gardening even building my own grow lights.

I started treating myself after the local urologist retired and the nearest urologist was a 600-mile plane ride away. All he told me was to eat and live healthy and even with a P3b pathology I was not referred for additional treatment. I had my PSA tested every 3 months and it has always been undetectable. I have a freezer full of wild caught Halibut, Sockeye, and crab but I now prefer the veggies from the garden. I live in Juneau.

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to rbtbrsrd]

Hello. I’d like to make my own too. How do you prepare it into a form that can be used rectally? Do you put it in gelatin capsules?

[ck722]

I grew my own plants and made the oil from the buds. It is legal here in Ca. It is very pricy to buy as it is still rare. My heart goes out to those who must buy. The plants are easy to grow and the oil is not hard to make with Everclear. Using the oil rectally (via a gelatin capsule) greatly reduces the amount needed, avoids the high and introduces fewer assimilation variables to produce a more consistent blood level.

Once again use cannabis in conjunction with proven traditional medical practices. I will report my next PSA in two months. I am a patient, not a doctor.

I pray to The Lord this helps. Prayer might skew the outcome but he did deliver Israel from Egypt.

Hope

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to ck722]

Hello. I’d like to make my own too. How do you prepare it into a form that can be used rectally? Do you put it in gelatin capsules?

[rocket09]

For me it only helped slightly. lowered my PSA by 1 from 10 to 9 . so I had RP. My brother in law says it worked for him and he had colon cancer and prostate cancer. He did have surgery and cryosurgery however and thinks he kept recurrence away with it. I was on it for 4 months and him for 6 . he is on a maintenance dose now. I dont take it. Made my head too fuzzy.

[ck722]

Thanks for your comment Rocket09. Cannabis does help as evidenced by your numbers. If it saves me from one met it will be worth it. Rectally can prevent or greatly reduce head high. Black pepper and lemon juice can -strangely- clear your head. Dosing management is the most important thing tho.

If the numbers don't rise, I will stay on low maintenance dosing until my expiration date.

As for being a "cure", I don't think so but it is still very useful along with standard medicine. Perhaps a life lengthener.

The more arrows in the quaver, the better your chances. Even if you are a poor shot.

[AlanMeyer]

If YouTube testimonials count as evidence, then there is evidence that you can cure cancer with cottage cheese, with tea, with pomegranates, with almonds, with horse urine, and with almost any substance you like. For that matter, you can also find "proof" that humans never landed on the moon, that aliens have taken over the minds of certain people, that children should never be vaccinated, and that Hitler escaped Germany and went to live in Argentina.

Furthermore, for many of these claims you can find not just one, but dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of videos and web pages confirming their truth. And you'd be surprised to know how many of the authors of these various theories are claimed to have impeccable, even Nobel Prize contending, credentials.

Hmmmm.

Maybe we should be careful about using the Internet as a source for medical and scientific information.

From what I have read, there is actual scientific evidence (not just YouTube testimonials) that cannabis oil can regress some kinds of tumor cells in lab animals. There is also actual scientific evidence to support its use in palliative care to relieve nausea, anxiety, and pain, and to stimulate appetite. As far as I know however, there is no scientific evidence that it cure cancer, or that it is anywhere near as effective as the drugs (like the ADT drugs) that are approved for treatment in humans. As with most other drugs, there are also potential negative side effects.

Here are the National Cancer Institute statements on Cannabis and Cannabinoids.

The "patient version": cancer.gov/about-cancer/tre...

And the "health professional" version with more technical detail: cancer.gov/about-cancer/tre...

Alan

[Spaceman210]

Here is my concern. Comments from the chemists? febs.onlinelibrary.wiley.co...

[ck722]

Ok. I guess now the big question is: Has anybody had a decrease in PSA using cannabis???

[6357axbz in reply to ck722]

NO

[Hidden in reply to ck722]

Yes, my husband from 17.9 to 12.5 in 5 months and no other therapy besides supplements, diet, sport. But it did last only some months. It raised when we stopped... could be a coincidence.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

And i researched a lot, in cannabis groups, and did not really find one with advanced prostate cancer cured by only cannabis without ADT or radiation or RP.

Dennis Hill responded to me, he is doing well.

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to Hidden]

Hello. I’d like to make my own . How do you prepare it into a form that can be used rectally? Do you put it in gelatin capsules?

[Captsquid2u]

I used it for a year and it kept my PSA high at 23, but stable, when I ran out of the oil, in a month my PSA doubled, coincidence, don’t think so, but I believe it can help with conventional treatments, but the FDA put a patent on it back in the 80s hmm! Cancer is heterogeneous, I believe if they did more studies who know! Ok just my experience.

[6357axbz]

Yes but how did it effect your PSA

[6357axbz]

Only if it happens before your PCa becomes castrate resistant. Once that occurs T levels don’t mean much.

[6357axbz]

I don’t understand your comment. Lupron is standard of care prior to castration resistance occuring because it kills T production. After that something additional or a replacement is required, typically chemo of some variety.

[ck722]

Thanks all. Good bits of info.

[ck722]

Results are in. 4 months ago .023 PSA. That was my first ultra sensitive test, good to .006. All other tests were "effective zero". Now, .023PSA, exactly the same. What this means is unclear. Perhaps the cannabis held the line or I don't have any active mets but do have a few remaining prostate cells. RP 13 months ago. Two months on cannabis, rectally. As strong as I could stand it dosage. It makes me tired, listless and forgetful. NO high! Five weeks off, then the latest PSA test.

Home grown, made and decarboxylated "Rick Simpson" oil. Diluted with coconut oil to a manageable dosing level.

I feel great and "things" are still in reasonable working order. Life is great. Praise God.

Any thoughts?

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to ck722]

Hello. I’d like to make my own too. How do you prepare it into a form that can be used rectally? Do you put it in gelatin capsules?

[jdm3]

If your PSA stays at .023 I'd say keep doing whatever you are doing. It appears very stable. That's good.

[ck722]

I do plan on very low dose long term use of cannabis oil. Dirt cheap if you grow your own. A $20.00 plant and a jug of Everclear. Crazy expensive if you have to buy it.

[Kangaroo2024 in reply to ck722]

how do you prepare it into a form that can be used rectally? Do you put it in gelatin capsules?