A while ago, there was a post concerning turmeric/curcumin interfering with PSA readings, and that people who use these supplements could be reducing PSA without actually reducing cancer burden. It was recommended that supplementation should stop several days prior to a PSA test. Several people said that they were going to do just that.
Does anyone have results as to turmeric/curcumin interference with PSA?
Does anyone have experience with any other substance that might have interfered with their PSA test results?
Thanks,
Cashless
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cashlessclay
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Here's my article about it. As you see, the list may also include: genistein (a soy isoflavone), EGCG (green tea), resveratrol (grapes), and capsaicin (chili peppers), saw palmetto, pygeum, and beta-sitosterol. Biotin carries an FDA warning to the effect.
I will love to know who is financing these anti-supplement studies ? Once I heard, that all new sleeping pill companies ganged up together (ambien,lunesta, roserem) and jointly funded a botched ,fake research study to defame a cheap and popular sleep aid, trazodone. (yes, fake studies just like fake news..buyer beware !) Those days they were selling one sleeping pill for 5 to 8 dollars . After a few years, everyone came to know that their sleeping pills were making older people sleep walk, sleep talk and sleep shop.
I am just curious. Nothing against those financiers...its their money...
The Choi study was done by the Sungkyunkwan University School of Medicine, Korea. The Ide study was done at the Teikyo University School of Medicine, Japan. The Fabiani study was done at the Macerata Hospital,Italy. The Nelson et al. review was written under an NIH grant. You can look up the rest. Most reputable journals require authors to declare potential conflicts of interest.
Perhaps you should be asking who financed the studies on supplements. Many were financed by multi-million dollar supplement mfrs like Life Extensions, etc. Some are touted on their websites, and are of such low quality that no reputable journal will publish them. They also influence laws by contributing to political campaigns:
"The simple answer as to why it happened -- MONEY.
Former Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah, was the author of the DSHEA law in 1994 and profited greatly for it. His family is invested in supplement companies, including Herbalife, among others. Between 1989 and 1994, Herbalife International gave Hatch $49,250; MetaboLife, $31,500; and Rexall Sundown, Nu Skin International, and Starlight International a total of $88,550. In addition, according to his financial disclosures for 2003, Hatch owned 35,621 shares of Pharmics, a Utah-based nutritional supplement company. In the early 1990s, Hatch's son Scott began working for lobbying groups representing vitamin and supplement makers. Kevin McGuiness, Hatch's former chief of staff, was also a lobbyist for the industry.
The supplement industry has thrived in the state of Utah, and thanks to Senator Hatch, the industry has grown unchecked -- all while patients continue to be misled and possibly harmed. In fact, the corridor of I-15 in Utah is known as the silicon valley of the supplement industry."
If these various supplements do suppress PSA then it would matter how. Suppose that the supplements result in the PSA being only 90% of what it should be, then if one keeps their supplements constant there would be no effect on PSA doubling time because that is based on the log of the ratio of the PSA values. If on the other hand the effect on PSA is an additive one, for example PSA is less by a constant term than it should be, then the doubling time would be affected. I suspect that it is more likely that the supplements cause a multiplicative effect but do not know that.
I am no longer routinely responding to posts but I will reply to this one....You can read a post about "Curcumin" written by Nalakrats and had 241 replies--record?? My friend, LuLu did just what TA advised--- stopping turmeric 4 days in advance before testing--result--no change. The concerns on curcumin are limited bioavailability and time in the system--science is working on that issue--see below:
More importantly, why on earth are you “no longer routinely responding to posts”? Don you’ve become an active member here with lots to offer. Hope it’s nothing anyone here said ?
I reply when I see what looks like difficult or not good cases that no one responds to, or when only one side of the story is given....people still need options...feel like they come here and post when situation does not look good or have no clear answer....if I can provide that....then good....otherwise, my "science" information is gone....It is more like what people do not say or even how they respond...to people I have offered help to and watched them thank everyone else and not me...think I will offer my 2 cents again.... One woman started following me after doing that--forget her--no help ever...
That sounds harsh but I can occupy my time otherwise....
One science contributor gone... Lurker status mostly....The peace established with "Curcumin" post can be my legacy....The call for all posters to do more than petty bickering....So much better here....
Good luck, Schwah.... I know my brother wrote you on his experience with dutasteride...
One last thing....I will respond to friend's post and if any of my followers, except the one, post a question, then I will always respond...otherwise.... sayonara....
I understand where you are coming from. A considerable amount of time can be spent on this website when other things may be more important - people with cancer cannot squander time. Your/our contributions and comments are meant to help others, but we need to be helped as well. Your comments and input have been very good and I hope you remain involved...selectively, of course. Phil
Thanks Phil....Yes, on a selective basis....but replies only....done posting...as I said, my participation in the Nalakrats "Curcumin" post can be my swan song....I used to feel like Nalakrats--as he shared--his participation is a ministry....a calling for want of a different word....I have lost the calling....Take care, amigo...
The evidence that supplements lower PSA without lowering cancer burden is quite slim. It's a two-step proof - first prove that a supplement lowers PSA, THEN show that the cancer burden is unchanged. That's a tall order, especially in a slow moving disease like PCa.
Certainly if people were claiming those supplements lowered cancer burden they would be promptly crucified by the same anti-supplement crowd that wants to hang its hat on the opposite argument.
This isn't a double standard. There is no standard at all.
Here's one thing that will RAISE PSA readings; recent ejaculation. I've demonstrated this on myself. Hold off 2-3 days before your PSA blood draw lest you get even more unpleasant news.
That's with a prostate. Without a prostate, any PSA is coming from distant mets or bits of tissue missed in the RP. In either case they aren't participating in ejaculation as the prostate does.
I don't think there is enough evidence to say supplements are worthless. There is no money to be made by Big Pharma to prove that for any one supplement let alone all of them.
I recall the pomegranate study that was hopeful to cure prostate cancer but disproven. This was from the same people who own POM and big nut companies.
Curcumin (not turmeric - it is too low in curcumin) can theoretically lower PSA without affecting PCa, in men with intact prostates suffering from BPH. i.e. if the BPH is reduced, but not the PCa. However, I don't believe that.
T_A claims that curcumin can indeed lower PSA, while at the same time stating that it is not bioavailable.
It is true that most curcumin supplements, (as with most resveratrol supplements,) are almost useless, but a small number are worthy of attention.
Longvida, developed at UCLA, can go across the blood-brain barrier [1] [1a]. To me, it is the ultimate proof of bioavailability. If it can reach the brain, it can go anywhere in the body.
How is PSA produced? "Upon binding to androgen, AR {androgen receptor} translocates into the nucleus and binds to the androgen response elements (AREs) on the PSA promoter, where it interacts with other transcription factors and activates PSA gene transcription." [2] (AR activation also leads to cell division.)
In other words, PSA production requires AR activation. And AR activation leads to PSA production & cell division. Research continues to involve the AR axis. i.e. the restriction of androgen availability to the AR, or the direct inactivation of the AR. In either case, a reduction in PSA is taken as proof of cell division inhibition. T_A would have it that PSA is a valid marker for BigPharma, but not for supplement users. This implies that curcumin does not stop the AR from reaching the nucleus, but it somehow interfere with the PSA promoter. Very odd indeed.
What really needs to happen is a patch of significant curcumin quantity delivery for cancers...I have read about patches with bioperine involved but they were for inflammation... do not believe these have significant curcumin to go to the next from inflammation to "cancer treatment"....If the technology is there, I have not seen a 20% curcumin patch with a bioperine layer delivery...That would provide steady state delivery and over a long period of time... I did see a 3% emulsion patch system....
It does not prevent, been taking it for 2 years and my sister for years , she died of lung cancer this year and still ended up here with prostate cancer. Watch the hype and check supplements with the oncologist.
I quit taking curcumin and all other supplements a week before my recent PSA test, just to make sure that undetectable really was. Still undetectable and I'm back on the supplements.
Let’s not forget thae very well known effects of established pharmaceuticals Avodart and Proscar on PSA. In general these medications cut in half the real PSA readings,,,ie a reading of 10 is actually 20
I have casually read Life Extension and their fraudulent claims for many of the supplements they espouse and market. I was dismayed several years ago to find that Steven Strum, author of The Prostate Primer was a member of their board of directors.
Orrin Hatch IMO is an unrelenting advocate of the fraudulent claims made by those in supplemental manufacturing business,,,,that generates billions of dollars of revenue for them plus the revenues derived by newspapers, radio and television info commercials in marketing of their complete claptrap as our so called FDA sits by as millions of consumers are ripped off financially by the the sharks of this industry,,,,not to mention the likely thousands of deaths that occur to those who rely on these so called medications for their health needs.
This not to assert that the hands of FDA governed and controlled medications sold by so called legitimate pharmaceutical companies in many instances are any cleaner.
As the old adage goes,,,,We have the best government that money can buy.
Oh yes the same government that allows the Robocall industry to flourish with no controls as millions of dollars are pumped into the campaign coffers of your favorite legislators who you foolishly assume are working on your behalf.
Maybe curcumin doesn't work for Pca, but it helped very well to stop the progression for my husband's thymoma. I'm adding since 2010 turmeric powder with black pepper and olive oil once a day in rice or noodles and so on, and the 10 small nodes he had still in his lungs didn't progress since 2010 and are now encapsulated. He had a thymoma stage 4a in 1996, three surgical interventions, two times radio therapy and new nodes. But exactly since 2010 the small nodes don't progress at all.
Unfortunately on the same time he developped a Pca detected in October 2018, Gleason 9... PSA was only 11.8 and no mets in the bones. It could be possible that the turmeric stopped the Pca's progression too and my husband could have passed away without taking it? ( I'm sorry for my bad english)
Thank you for the post. I have been on Turmeric for 5 years now. 2017 I got sepsis and e-coli just 3 days after my prostate biopsy. My Biopsy results said I had stage 4 advanced Prostate Cancer. Gleason score 4+4. My pic lined for antibiotics moved 3 weeks later and I had to go to the emergency room and the doctors told me I had cancer in my right lung. Started ADT Therapy (Lupron shot every 3 months). I went into surgery for a prostatectomy, my surgery was stopped after 3 doctors failed to remove my prostate. My cancer tumor had attached itself to my rectum. 4 weeks later, I had the lower third lobe of my lung removed for prostate cancer. My Doctors wanted me to have radiation seeds. I elected not to take radiation. I switched hospitals and doctors. UPMC Hillman Center, Dr Appleman wanted me to take extra strong docetaxel over 18 weeks. The end of Chemo was November 2017. I continue Lupron shots every 3 months. January 2019 I started eating a Whole Plant-based Food with Salmon occasionally. My PSA was .1 up to this past June and it dropped to .05. I continue with the Tumeric in my smoothie every morning. Many of my other blood results improved too. Could the Tumeric be giving me a lower PSA Reading or ..... Something is working. My last scans showed that my cancer tumour was now against my bladder. Thank you for all your help. Make a Great Life!!! Wolfy74
Research about turmeric (and many other natural supplements) is evolving and there are many different clinical trials considering the effect of such supplements. Considering the fact that it is sometimes hard to reproduce their results because:
a) they are related to the quality of the supplement and the way they are supplied (sometimes injected, other times taken orally)
b) they sometimes use concentrations of the active components that are unreachable for us common people
c) there are some indications of benefit for each supplements (stronger or weaker indications) from reputable sources but you always find a study from other reputable sources that warn you about their absence of effect or even potential risk.
I personally don't take the risk of false PSA readings or to interfere with chemo and stop taking them a couple of days prior to blood tests, and also one day before till two days after chemo. Two days should be enough for PSA reading as anyway they do not accumulate in your body.
Apart from that, since it is at least proven that these supplements do good in general for your body (and general health is very important for us patients), I take curcumin + pepper, nano curcumin (should be like 2000 times more bio available than normal), even turmeric while I cook since I like it, ursolic acid, melatonin, pomegranate juice (mostly to preserve microbiome), water kefir and so on. But nothing in excess, nothing that is like 400% of the recommended daily intake. I know that in some experiments they do that kind of overload and that it can be safe in general, but I am waiting for some definitive proof before going to that extreme.
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