Hi All, waiting for MO to respond to this, but figured one of you might know and give a more timely response. Husband started taking Turmeric Curcumin (2000 mg) in December for sore knees and hips. January 3rd PSA test was down from 3.01 to 2.71 ( Yeah!)
But I read today that turmeric can caused decline in PSA and NOT to take it for a week before PSA test. Should he stop taking it now before PSA test next week? But then if PSA goes up, would it be from a true increase, or just because he stopped the turmeric?
Also - Does turmeric lower PSA by killing the cancer cells or is it a false decrease due to some other mechanism?
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Bspouse
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Taking Curcumin by its self isn’t a panacea for prostate cancer. If it was, we’d all be taking it and everyone would be cured. If you concentrate on a particular vitamin or supplement there’s always the risk of causing an imbalance somewhere. A better approach, IMO, is to look for a more holistic strategy - exercise, good diet, good sleep etc. That being said, Curcumin is something I would consider taking.
There is the potential issue, as you’ve read, about taking Curcumin before your psa test and it interfering with the testing to produce inaccurate results. If you wanted to play it safe then yes don’t take it for a week leading up to the test.
However, IMO, I would not be relying on a single psa test result. You should be looking to monitor your psa using some time series. So if you get the psa test say every 3 months, you get the data and draw a best fit line. The higher the gradient of the line will indicate the progression or increase in PCa.
Taking Curcumin should not be cumulative in your testing results. So what I mean is, this should not in theory increase the gradient of the trend line. It could raise the whole curve in a parallel shift upwards because all the tests have the effects of Curcumin included. The gradient a or the rate of change (which is the measurement of growth) is what you looking at. Even if you decided not to take it then kept changing your mind, your results would go up and down by some percentage, but not increase the rate of change of growth because it’s not cumulative. If it was, the test would be a rubbish test.
I think the take always are to be more concerned about the time series of results and concentrate on a more holistic lifestyle than a singular supplement.
I did a two stage test: a) Was taking curcumin for months, stopped it for a month, PSA didn't rise. b) Started it again and a month later no abnormal PSA decline.
Ask me in about two weeks time, just finished a months PC radiotherapy sessions, Adenocarcinoma grade 7, have been taking curcumin/turmeric since September 2021, relief of damage caused by a broken skull in Jan 2018, was prescribed Aspirin, but was agreed to change to curcumin/turmeric as aspirin would react to epilepsy medication!
I am not a doctor but I find this interesting and would like to comment. Firstly, PSA gives an indication of GROWTH of prostate cancer, which appears to be quite slow in your husband's case. It has been reduced considerably. Secondly, you need to look at the cancer, not at the PSA. By that I mean scans. A reduction in PSA does not mean a reduction in cancer, just a reduction in growth of the cancer. I think tumeric/circumen is probably having a very good positive effect, but whether it is actually killing cancer cells would only be understood through observing the cancer distribution itself. If the cancer has been significantly reduced by the chemo and ADT, then it is hard to tell if the tumeric is doing anything. I would not stop tumeric to avoid lowering PSA. It probably is doing a lot of other good things, whether it is killing cancer or not.
I take a small amount of circumen with black pepper each day in the belief that they kill prostate cancer cells...and together they work better. "Curcumin is fat soluble. Mixing curcumin with fat significantly aids in absorption. Black pepper increases curcumin’s potency by 1000 times. " organiclifestylemagazine.co...
Curcumim has several beneficial effects, especially in a highly absorbed formulation such as Theracurmin. I take it daily even when having PSA tests. I am only interested in changes of PSA more than any one value. So I personally just keep it consistent by taking it every day. The more new information that comes out about curcumin, the more I believe it is beneficial. I am going to post about this very soon.
Thank both you and NecessarilySo for your response. Drs office suggested stopping it , so he reluctantly stopped for this month's test. But I will badger the doctor a little more when we see him next week. I haven't read anything suggesting it can be harmful.
Curcumin (Theracurmin) Improves Mild Cognitive Impairment and Memory - A Randomized Clinical Trial This is a remarkable study of the effects of a highly bioavailable form of Curcumin, "Theracurmin", on memory in non-demented adults, including those diagnosed with MCI, Mild Cognitive Impairment. What we call "Chemo-Brain" is a form of MCI resulting from cancer treatments including chemotherapy and also ADT in some of us with APC. This includes myself so I am very interested in this result. This is a small randomized, placebo-controlled blinded clinical trial lasting 18 months, the highest tier of medical evidence. Forty subjects aged 51-84 were randomized to this highly bioavailable form of Curcumin, 90 mg twice daily. 21 received active treatment and 19 received placebo. Extensive testing of cognitive function was done at beginning and end. This included tests of verbal memory, visual memory and attention. The treatment group showed improvements in these domains that were statistically significant. They also had significant improvement in depression inventory scores. The placebo group showed no such significant changes. And that was not all. They also performed a very specialized scan of their brains at the beginning and end. Called the FDDNP-PET scan, it can measure the two abnormal proteins that are highly associated with Alzheimer's Disease called Amyloid and Tau (called plaques and tangles respectively) in the hypothalamus and amygdala areas of the brain. The subjects on Theracurmin showed no significant increase in Amyloid and Tao in these two brain areas. While those on placebo showed increased (accumulated) levels. These two brain areas are involved in memory as well as with emotional regulation (depression and anxiety). As a result of reading this study, I changed my "regular" Curcumin supplement to one using the Japanese micro-particle product, Theracurmin, and hoping my own chemo-brain MCI will improve. There are several brands out there using it. I found one with the best prices at Vitacost (combined with Resveratrol). Here is a link to the paper and an excerpt. It is worthwhile to read the discussion. Memory and Brain Amyloid and Tau Effects of a Bioavailable Form of Curcumin in Non-Demented Adults: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled 18-Month Trial Abstract: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/292... Full Article: naturalhealthresearch.org/w... Highlights• This is the first long-term (18 months) double-blind, placebo controlled trial of a bioavailable form of curcumin (Theracurmin® containing 90 mg of curcumin twice daily) in non-demented adults.• We found that daily oral Theracurmin led to significant memory and attention benefits.• FDDNP-PET scans performed pre- and post-treatment suggested that behavioral and cognitive benefits are associated with decreases in plaque and tangle accumulation in brain regions modulating mood and memory.• Curcumin’s cognitive benefits may stem from its anti-inflammatory and/or antiamyloid brain effects. For those wanting more prostate cancer specific information on curcumin:Curcumin against Prostate Cancer: Current Evidencencbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Paul, these are great studies, particularly the one on neurological health is exciting. Thanks for posting.On cancer the excellent in vitro and vivo results sadly do not seem to pass the clinical test. An RCT comparing docetaxel + curcumin vs docetaxel + placebo was ended in advance for futility. Is there something making this less compelling? Or is there other clinical evidence?
Based on this, I think I need to take curcumin too! FYI - Husband's PSA dropped again last month even though he had stopped taking the curcumin for the week before. Next PSA test is tomorrow, and he has not stopped taking it this month. Hoping for more encouraging results.
Psa has continued to drop. He is still taking turmeric. However he stopped taking turmeric for 2 weeks because he had a hip replacement on Dec 11. Next PSA test is Jan 4 so I will update you then
As a follow-up to my question. We saw MO on Thursday. He said there is no harm in taking the turmeric as long as he tolerates it ( he does). Doc said there are mixed results as to whether it kills cancer, but it is beneficial for its anti-inflammatory properties. He suggested taking it with food instead of a pill form because pills could have other ingredients.
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