Testosterone Shock Therapy - BIPOLAR ... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

12,302 members14,884 posts

Testosterone Shock Therapy - BIPOLAR androgen therapy (BAT) - Where it is Available

cesanon
cesanon

What Doctors are currently doing Testosterone Shock Therapy? This is what I know so far:

1. Dr. Liebowitz at Johns Hopkins has experimented with BAT in small clinical trials:

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

Here are the authors: Robert L. Leibowitz, Tanya B. Dorff*, Steven Tucker†, James Symanowski‡

, and Nicholas J. Vogelzang§; Compassionate Oncology Medical Group, *University of Southern California, Los Angeles CA, USA, † Pacific Cancer Centre, Singapore, ‡ Nevada Cancer Institute, Las Vegas, NV and § US Oncology, Comprehensive Cancer Centers of Nevada, USA

2. Here are some named authors from the following study:

europepmc.org/backend/ptpmc...

Benjamin A Teply, MD, Michael T Schweizer, MD, Prof Charles G Drake, MD, Prof Michael A Carducci, MD, Channing J Paller, MD, Emmanuel S Antonarakis, MD, Prof Mario A Eisenberger, MD, and Prof Samuel R Denmeade, MD , Department of Oncology (B A Teply MD, M T Schweizer MD, Prof C G Drake MD, Prof M A Carducci MD, C J Paller MD, E S Antonarakis MD, Prof M A Eisenberger MD, Prof S R Denmeade MD) and Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA; Division of Oncology and Hematology, University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha, NE, USA (B A Teply); Department of Medicine, Division of Oncology, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA (M T Schweizer); and Division of Hematology/Oncology, Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY, USA (C G Drake)

3. A speaker at the 2018 PCRI casually mentioned that he has used Testosterone Shock Therapy with, I recollect 5 patients: Dr Przemyslaw Twardowski (City of Hope and Providence St. John's Hospital and John Wayne Cancer Institute in Los Angeles) TwardowskiD@JWCI.org, 310-582-7137,

So what other Docs are using Testosterone Shock therapy? Can anyone add any Docs to this list or add any institutions to this list? Anyone?

========================

BIPOLAR androgen therapy (BAT) - alternating periods of ADT with periods of high testosterone supplementation. The rationale for it and results so far are explained here:

pcnrv.blogspot.com/2016/09/...

(A Great Tall-Allen Blog post)

23 Replies

What do you mean by "shock therapy?" All the clinical trials of BAT have been done at Johns Hopkins.

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen

Not certain, I picked that phrase up from somewhere I think?

Last I heard Dr. Liebowitz, was head of Compassionate Oncology in LA. And it is Demeade running the trials at John Hopkins--there is also Texas Oncology--and y'all would have to find Docs.

But simple when used Shock T or High Supra T--is a single dose/injection that takes your T to approximately 2200---nearly 2 times that of a 20 year old.

Nalakrats

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Nalakrats

Dr. Liebowitz Info

Compassionate Oncology Medical Group, 2080 Century Park East, Suite 1005, Los Angeles, CA 90067, info@compassionateoncology.org, (310) 229-3555. Fax 310.229.3554

Videos

( compassionateoncology.org/v... )

1. TESTOSTERONE & PROSTATE CANCER OR CHALLENGING TREATMENT BIASES – IS NOTHING SACRED?

compassionateoncology.org/v...

2. OUR THREE-PRONGED PROTOCOL FOR TREATMENT OF HIGH-RISK METASTATIC AND/OR RECURRENT PROSTATE CANCER AND USING HIGH-DOSE TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY FOR SELECT PATIENTS WITH PROSTATE CANCER

compassionateoncology.org/v...

Articles / Papers

( compassionateoncology.org/p... )

"Please note that I (Dr. Bob) have been using high-dose Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) on select PC patients in our practice since the late 1990’s. I vividly recall my first PC patient starting on TRT; my target T range was only 100-200.

Over the next 6 years or so, I slowly raised the target T level, while always requiring oral and written, informed consent detailing all risks/benefits and treatment options.

We also ordered extremely frequent labs, as well as scans and office visits. When a patient was started on TRT, we initially required weekly labs, including PSA and T levels. If there were not any problems, we gradually lengthened the intervals between their blood tests, but even today, the least often that labs are checked is monthly. We were surprised to find that for most patients, PSA levels did not increase in spite of rising T levels. "

compassionateoncology.org/p...

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to cesanon

I read all this and watched the videos, years ago---TX

Nalakrats

Tall_Allen
Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon

I consider Dr Bob to be sort of "out there" and not necessarily in a good way. He never published his long-term results - probably because they were so bad. He was NOT doing BAT.

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen

Yes, I picked up that flavor from the voice of the web site.

Though it appears that he has a young partner now with some strong looking credentials who is a hematologist oncologist with clinical research experience not that long ago at UCLA.

He claims to be the early leader of triple blockade ADT. It wasn't too many years ago when only a few docs were willing to do that.

If you want this therapy, you don't have a lot of places to go.

Where would you recommend to go for it?

Tall_Allen
Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon

Triple blockade has been disproven in a randomized clinical trial, although I don't fault him for trying it before the data were available.

I recommend that the only place a patient does this should be in a clinical trial, which would be at Johns Hopkins - although, I think one of the JH researchers had moved to UW and was doing a trial there. This is potentially very dangerous - in half the men in the trial, their cancer worsened.

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen

Isn't "Triple blockade" Lupron, Casodex, and Avodart?

Tall_Allen
Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon

Yes it is.

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen

Allen

Lupron, Casodex, and Avodart is what Myers used on me in 2011. LOL

Given the clinical studies since then, what would be the more modern approach?

Tall_Allen
Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon

It depends on the situation. the randomized trial just proved that with iADT, Avodart did not add anything.

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen

"He was NOT doing BAT"

If he isn't doing BAT, what is he doing? It appears like he's doing it?

Tall_Allen
Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon

He was giving consistently high levels of testosterone, not BAT.

cesanon
cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen

''He was giving consistently high levels of testosterone, not BAT."

That sounds dangerous.

Tall_Allen
Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon

I agree!

I listened to Dt. Denmeade's 2 hour presentation (someone posted a link online). It's basically a last-resort approach since he can't get funding to study because, in his words, "testosterone is generic". My guy had a Lupron shot that didn't last (well over a year ago) with no corresponding rise in PSA, so its something we might consider in the future. Did not have a good experience with Dr. Antonarakis. He's highly qualified....but.....funding seemed to come before the best decision for the patient.

I have been extremely impressed with Dr. A. Sorry to hear it was not a good experience. Good luck and be well, Josh

cesanon
cesanon in reply to jdm3

JDM3, what kind of funding problems do you think there might have been with Dr. A? Perhaps the funding for the trial had ended, so he can't treat patients with testosterone any more? or?

jdm3
jdm3 in reply to cesanon

No idea. I don't anything about the funding. Sorry.

Just commenting that I found Dr. A. to be extremely bright and engaging and was surprised to hear FightingforSmith had a bad experience. If they are at JH, they may give him another chance. As with a lot of these MOs at centers like JH or Dana Farber, they work within the confines of allopathic and evidence-based medicine, but when it comes to that stuff, he is right up there with the best.

FightingforSmith

1. "Did not have a good experience with Dr. Antonarakis. He's highly qualified....but.....funding seemed to come before the best decision for the patient." Please explain, what it the funding issue?

2. "Denmeade's 2 hour presentation" May I ask where "Denmeade's 2 hour presentation" can be found?

It was on this site, youTube, Bipolar Androgen Therapy BAT - Sam Denmeade MD 2-20-17

That's it!

You may also like...