Advanced Prostate Cancer

5 Year Survival Rate for Men Using Vitamins and Herbs The Same As Men Using Conventional Therapy (Surgery - Radiation and Chemo)

The Docs did have a qualifier..a long natural history for PCA. But that could be why a good natural supplement protocol does work...because PCA is a slow growing cancer the supplement protocol has time to work as opposed to fast acting drugs. They also said the study had a short median follow-up. But in the long term ADT has massive side effects...CRPC...Heart Disease...Diabetes. With Radiation you are trading the cancer you have now for a new cancer in the future caused by Radiation. Who knows all the long term effects of Chemo...a recent study linked Chemo to nerve damage in the Brain.

Gus

medscape.com/viewarticle/88...

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I am sceptical about this finding. Only PCa becoming an exception with beneficial response to alternative/supplements/vitamins treatment whereas all the other cancers increasing their death risk! IMO Surgery, Radiation and Chemo are still the best curative treatments for PCa despite the side effects. Not even hormone therapies. This is only my humble, personal view and is not an invitation to a controversy.

Thank you for your post.

Sisira

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IMO, humbly of course---Rad. Chemo. and surgery are not cures but treatments for adding survival years, unless you caught the Cancer inside the Prostate, not having one Pca cell get out.

Nalakrats

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Generally speaking, yes. There are exceptions, I personally know of four, who at one time had metastatic Prostate cancer..... at least mets resolved and undetectable PSA after thirteen years.....

GD

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Agree, it would be safer and more appropriate to use the word "remission" or your phrase "adding survival years" in the context of cancer treatment. However, a "curative treatment" does not necessarily mean a cure. It is as opposed to a "palliative treatment". It has at least the intention or the potential to kill all the cancer cells or a sizable volume of it.

Sisira

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Sisira---I take the English language literally. A curative treatment without axioms to me means there was a treatment or a series of treatment events that lead to a cure. I.E. The use of Keytruda, and Car-T treatments have generated absolute cures. As to Pca, if you have a certain mutation, that can be affected by these treatments---I would say you have a possibility for a treatment that cures, or a curative treatment.

Now let me cite a real live example, from a Natural Process. I man introduced to me by my Urologist, a patient of his---was a researcher for prostate cancer at Bayer. He got about the same form of Pca I got[Ductal Cribriform]--nasty---aggressive---with an average survival of 18 months----He retired at age 55 when DX with Pca. Went 3 years with the Vantas implant, Casodex, and a supplemental program he put together for himself---he was a PHD in Biological Research.

We met for lunch to compare notes--outside of the drugs he gave me his supplemental program, and I gave him mine. He added some of mine that he did not have, to his list, as he understood my dissertation on the benefits, and likewise I added some of his that I did not have in my quiver.

Long story short, against Doctor's advice, he came off of his drugs, after 3 years of being Undetectable as to PSA. Having lived past the 18 month, OS, he had faith in his supplemental program from a scientists intuition. So now it is 7 years later, no drugs, and his T went back to normal, and he has maintained a PSA of 0.3, for 7 years. We call this a durable remission--he killed almost all, and what was left were ineffective Pca cells, that could not multiply, do Angiogenesis or travel anywhere. We might consider this not only a durable remission, but I might call it a cure

Would I be happy if I could repeat this man's results---absolutely

Nalakrats

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Nal,

Dr. Myers said he devised his drug treatment protocol by making a list of all the drugs that had shown a benefit against PCa. He would then try different combinations from this list until he found one that worked for a given patient. He also believed in supplements.

The same rationale could be applied to supplements by making a list of all the supplements that have demonstrated efficacy against PCa to devise a protocol. One feature of supplements is that in addition to fighting the current cancer they also confer protection against a new cancer, where as most of the conventional treatments raise your risk of developing a new cancer down the road.

If one wanted to devise a protocol along the lines of your friend:

drop ADT and continue with Avodart - Metformin - Supplements

Dr. Myers said that in 50% of his patients, all of whom had metastatic PCa, this led to a durable remission.

Gus

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This is exactly what I do--with extreme scientific research--and I have my combination down to the size of a gnats asshole. But I continue with the ADT along with. Will stay the course, until I have a minimum of 3 years with the drugs before dropping them. I am well aware of Meyers and how he worked. He also used ADT when appropriate. You have to remember I have a Pathology, that only one other member on this site has, and John Hopkins doing a study on my Pathology, could only find 760 men to study.

So I have to make my own protocol. It continues to work. Only issue is why I had a 30% increase in E2, in 60 days, up to 27, from 19. I did a Post---About the Brain making E2, when the signal comes from somewhere that it was getting too low---may be adding Arimidex????

Have you added 7X BIRM? Still have the Tel. number you gave. I have not called, as I want to keep this in my quiver.

Anyway--starting to think about heading to Florida in December to hunt gators.

Nalakrats

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Nal,

no I have not tried 7XBirm yet.....in my case I have found that .5mg Arimidex keeps my E2 at 15

Gus

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Gus how often is your dose--and what is the dose of the Arimidex---you take.

Nalakrats

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Nal,

Arimidex is supplied as a 1 mg tab...I cut the tab in half and take .5mg 1 time per week....now that I am off Lupron and T is rising I will probably need to increase the dose to ,5mg twice a week

Gus

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Hard to say--but twice a week sounds good to me--and you can modify as you do blood tests---each month. I do monthly's, I assume you do also.

Nalakrats

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Please do not focus on the short term survival dats. From what I have read, unless the cancer is very advanced, the first five year mark is not where the concern lays. (Major support for those men that fall into that category.(

Rather it is the five to ten and especially the ten plus year mark where the choice of treatments come into play. That is why I argued for surgery last year even though the cancer had spread to the pelvic area. It is also why I had 38 rounds of radiation and started Lupron. Based on the results from the Stampede trial on long (>10 year) survivability last June I added Zytiga to the mix.

There is no question that natural supplements can play a positive factor. I take a number myself. But until they come out with ten plus years survivor data, I will use them in addition to modern medicine.

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I do not believe that this study puts forth any useful information relative to PCa. The alternative approaches are not defined in this study. For one person it might coffee enemas, for another a single lycopene capsule daily, for another 50 varied supplememts a day. How carefully were these treatments/supplements selected. Were they appropriate? We just don't know. The only thing we know for certain about this group is that treatments were not administered by a medical professional. Even if we had some confidence in the validity of the alternative group, it would be necessary to compare it to a third group that received no alternative or CCT treatment. That would give us a better clue as to the effectiveness of the treatments used in the alternatuve group. I suspect that over a five year period, there would be minor statistical differences between the two groups.

Perhaps, the most important line in this article is Dr. Johnson's caution that alternaive treatment should be done as a complement.

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I have read a good number of episodes similar to what has been posted by Nalakrats. But for myself I cannot underestimate the medically and scientifically proven treatments such as Surgery ( RP ), Radiation and Chremotherapy by making a comparison to the effectiveness of supplements and alternative treatments.I fully agree with Dr.WHO and Wiston40 who also has made a thorough evaluation on alternative treatment whilst concluding that alternative treatment should be done only as a complement. Some people may say Alternative Treatment is superior to Conventional Treatment. That is their perception. May be their real life experience even. I have no intention to influence anybody's mind or get into arguments with researchers and Phd holders. I only express my humble opinions from what I have learned and digested. I also appreciate different view points as there can be many.

Sisira

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